Difficulty in securing work

[NomadicBrit]

Hi all, first time post to this forum and might be a little long, so bear with me!

My wife and I relocated to Sydney in May last year, after spending close to a year travelling SE Asia and Western Australia after leaving the UK in June 2017. So we have now been here 9 months. After a few months of unsettled accommodation and having to move twice in the first 3 months, we got relatively settled early September and I began to look for work in earnest. 

I am a Software Engineer by trade (so have a PR Visa) but really over the last 10 years have been a Software Architecture and Senior Technical Manager and have worked for some very large organisations in the financial services sector for over 20 years. 

The problems I have been having getting work so far:

• Lack of senior level jobs compared to London (to be expected)
• Being totally ignored by recruitment agents whilst applying for jobs I have all the skills for and demonstrable on my CV
• Going for interviews, getting through to final phases to either get a "No" or never being got back too (unprofessional and highly disrespectful)
• Been given no feedback at any point (or any at all when they ghost me even if I ask for feedback by a follow up email and then gets ignored).
• Not understanding what I am doing wrong in interviews to not secure positions I am qualified, if not even over-qualified to do. 

The startups have generally been better at getting back to me than the medium to large sized organisation, which is interesting in and of itself. 

It's now getting to the point where we have spent enough money being out here and, with the job market not looking great at the moment, we are wondering what to do. I could walk into a job in the UK as soon as we moved back, even though we don't really want to do that but, finances are now getting to the point where we don't want to waste much more money on banging our head against what we are beginning to see is a brick wall. It does get utterly soul destroying getting rejected for jobs, especially having had a highly successful career previously, and the uncertainty and not working has been causing some deal of stress, as it would for anyone.     

I'm 45 years old (was 44 when we got here), so I'm not sure whether age is an issue or not, given that I am apply for senior Head of Engineering/Architecture/Technology roles, as this age would be the sweet spot in the UK for these roles. 

Anyone else had similar experiences, and should we give it a couple of more months or cut our losses and head back home?

Many thanks in advance for replies on this. 

 

[Paul1Perth]

You would be right to think your age and lack of Australian experience has a lot to do with it. Are you just limiting yourself to applying for jobs you feel qualified to do or trying anything that looks remotely interesting?

I was out of work for 5 months in 92 and started tailoring my resume for jobs out of left field. I got a job filling in for someone on long service leave and then people I worked with in that job knew of jobs around that weren't advertised. Same old thing I guess, it's who you know not what you know a lot of the time. It was much the same in the UK  TBH. Here though you won't have as many contacts.

Once I had the first job I've never been out of work since. Never worked in mining or oil and gas either, which is strange for Perth.

Don't know what the Sydney job market is like but keep plugging away and go for a couple of strange ones. You never know.

Good luck.

[Amber Snowball]

1 hour ago, NomadicBrit said:

Hi all, first time post to this forum and might be a little long, so bear with me!

My wife and I relocated to Sydney in May last year, after spending close to a year travelling SE Asia and Western Australia after leaving the UK in June 2017. So we have now been here 9 months. After a few months of unsettled accommodation and having to move twice in the first 3 months, we got relatively settled early September and I began to look for work in earnest. 

I am a Software Engineer by trade (so have a PR Visa) but really over the last 10 years have been a Software Architecture and Senior Technical Manager and have worked for some very large organisations in the financial services sector for over 20 years. 

The problems I have been having getting work so far:

• Lack of senior level jobs compared to London (to be expected)
• Being totally ignored by recruitment agents whilst applying for jobs I have all the skills for and demonstrable on my CV
• Going for interviews, getting through to final phases to either get a "No" or never being got back too (unprofessional and highly disrespectful)
• Been given no feedback at any point (or any at all when they ghost me even if I ask for feedback by a follow up email and then gets ignored).
• Not understanding what I am doing wrong in interviews to not secure positions I am qualified, if not even over-qualified to do. 

The startups have generally been better at getting back to me than the medium to large sized organisation, which is interesting in and of itself. 

It's now getting to the point where we have spent enough money being out here and, with the job market not looking great at the moment, we are wondering what to do. I could walk into a job in the UK as soon as we moved back, even though we don't really want to do that but, finances are now getting to the point where we don't want to waste much more money on banging our head against what we are beginning to see is a brick wall. It does get utterly soul destroying getting rejected for jobs, especially having had a highly successful career previously, and the uncertainty and not working has been causing some deal of stress, as it would for anyone.     

I'm 45 years old (was 44 when we got here), so I'm not sure whether age is an issue or not, given that I am apply for senior Head of Engineering/Architecture/Technology roles, as this age would be the sweet spot in the UK for these roles. 

Anyone else had similar experiences, and should we give it a couple of more months or cut our losses and head back home?

Many thanks in advance for replies on this. 

 

I don’t have any words of wisdom, sorry, but just to say as a nurse the lack of communication is often the same. It took them 3 months once to get back to me and I was an internal applicant! No amount of phone calls or emails got a response. Eventually an email saying I hadn’t been considered. I then requested why I didn’t get an interview as an appropriately qualified internal applicant, over 2 years later I’m still waiting.......just one example. Some places are better than others.

It just seems to be a cultural difference.

Only you can decide how long you can afford to or want to keep trying. I wish you the best of luck and hope something comes up for you. It’s very disheartening.

[Quoll]

I'd agree with PiP, your age and lack of Australian experience certainly won't be helping you, neither would the fact that for much of your time trying things would have been shut down or certainly wound right down over the summer. Don't take the lack of feedback personally, that's pretty endemic.

Have you had an appointment with a recruitment agent in your field specifically to talk application strategy? I know some of them will talk to you about cvs, response to job selection criteria etc. Sydney always appears to me to be a pretty Asian place and I would imagine in IT that would be especially strong so you are probably up against some well established "who you know" networks of which you are unlikely to be a member.

Failing that, the pragmatic thing is to go where the work is - apply wider than Sydney, apply for jobs you would give your eye teeth for and be prepared to jump for the one that says yes - if that's in London, then so be it.

[BacktoDemocracy]

5 hours ago, NomadicBrit said:

Hi all, first time post to this forum and might be a little long, so bear with me!

My wife and I relocated to Sydney in May last year, after spending close to a year travelling SE Asia and Western Australia after leaving the UK in June 2017. So we have now been here 9 months. After a few months of unsettled accommodation and having to move twice in the first 3 months, we got relatively settled early September and I began to look for work in earnest. 

I am a Software Engineer by trade (so have a PR Visa) but really over the last 10 years have been a Software Architecture and Senior Technical Manager and have worked for some very large organisations in the financial services sector for over 20 years. 

The problems I have been having getting work so far:

• Lack of senior level jobs compared to London (to be expected)
• Being totally ignored by recruitment agents whilst applying for jobs I have all the skills for and demonstrable on my CV
• Going for interviews, getting through to final phases to either get a "No" or never being got back too (unprofessional and highly disrespectful)
• Been given no feedback at any point (or any at all when they ghost me even if I ask for feedback by a follow up email and then gets ignored).
• Not understanding what I am doing wrong in interviews to not secure positions I am qualified, if not even over-qualified to do. 

The startups have generally been better at getting back to me than the medium to large sized organisation, which is interesting in and of itself. 

It's now getting to the point where we have spent enough money being out here and, with the job market not looking great at the moment, we are wondering what to do. I could walk into a job in the UK as soon as we moved back, even though we don't really want to do that but, finances are now getting to the point where we don't want to waste much more money on banging our head against what we are beginning to see is a brick wall. It does get utterly soul destroying getting rejected for jobs, especially having had a highly successful career previously, and the uncertainty and not working has been causing some deal of stress, as it would for anyone.     

I'm 45 years old (was 44 when we got here), so I'm not sure whether age is an issue or not, given that I am apply for senior Head of Engineering/Architecture/Technology roles, as this age would be the sweet spot in the UK for these roles. 

Anyone else had similar experiences, and should we give it a couple of more months or cut our losses and head back home?

Many thanks in advance for replies on this. 

 

Look back over a number of threads in this section and you will see a number of posts and replies around the same issues soyou will see you are not on your own.

From my experience and my wife's I will say this, I was 60 with years of experience in professional side of building and my wife 42ish in 2006-9, with years in charity/training management, I couldn't get anything other than temp jobs, she managed to get a state managers job with  a charity after doing a year as a temp with a mining company in mt Isa on fifo but she then got a very good job on the back of a tip off from a friend and because she was actually unknown in Brisbane which is where we were.

I gave up looking after getting knocked back for jobs I was doing in my 20's,

After 5 years my wife got squeezed out by a new chairman who wanted a yes man, very specifically a man

MY analysis of the job market for older well qualified management peo'le was this, and I stress its mine, Australian business across the board is ageist, over 50 and they just can't  be arsed, then the other thing is people get into a company in their 20's and make it their lifes work to creep up the ranks, never rocking the boat, getting nestled in because they know if they fall out at 45+ plus they are going to be out for good, so turnover is very low and why take a chance on somebody from outside when there is always somebody who is a mate of someone who will be fitted in. 

I saw someone get a senior job because he was recommended and he was quite open about it, Nepotism rules.

My wife got her job because she was in the know

Recruitment agents told me to play down my experience and quals, probably fair advice but I knew their had to be jobs on their books which I didn't get a look in on

Look back over other threads and you will see similar tales

Look I left in 2013/14 after my wife started to get pressure from her new chairman and we had not seen any comparable jobs come up

I have no idea what the job market is like now so I am 9 years or so out of date, but I will tell you how I found it and what I perceived as we went along, we saw 3 senior people get squeezed out in our last 2 years, they never got a comparable role, one of them came to the UK to be senior in the NHS, one took early retirement and just did fill ins relying on her husband, the other moved state and still never got to be in charge ever again .

I stress it is what I/we found and our experience.

But, you are getting older and whether its Australia or UK opportunities will reduce down inevitably, its the way of the world, before you jump why don't you see if you can get something in another city there and see if you can get something in the UK as definite job offer, that may clarify options and situations

Sorry if none of this is what you want to hear and you can just quite rightly say its a disgruntled sad old guy sat in the UK who needs some excuses for why it never worked out in his 10 years in Australia and there is some truth in that but there were reasons.

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by BacktoDemocracy

[BacktoDemocracy]

Sorry to bang on, but  my final analysis was that we made the mistake of thinking that because English was spoken the country was organised similar to England, it's not, think outside the box, I reckon its got big tinges of France and Spain with a dollop of the old USSR and a few drops of mid Africa in there.

I will withdraw to my bunker now and await the incoming 4.5 shells

[Quoll]

Sorry to bang on, but  my final analysis was that we made the mistake of thinking that because English was spoken the country was organised similar to England, it's not, think outside the box, I reckon its got big tinges of France and Spain with a dollop of the old USSR and a few drops of mid Africa in there.
I will withdraw to my bunker now and await the incoming 4.5 shells

No, you’re right, it’s not Britain with sunshine, it’s a foreign country that happens to speak English (after a fashion ;-) and drive on the left. I think too many migrants forget that things are done differently and the Aussies don’t take kindly to folk from elsewhere rocking in and pontificating on “back home we ...”

[BacktoDemocracy]

5 minutes ago, Quoll said:

No, you’re right, it’s not Britain with sunshine, it’s a foreign country that happens to speak English (after a fashion and drive on the left. I think too many migrants forget that things are done differently and the Aussies don’t take kindly to folk from elsewhere rocking in and pontificating on “back home we ...”

Even when we have done exactly the same before more efficiently and effectively and have dealt with the problem that can be seen looming in the headlights..

 

[Quoll]

2 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Even when we have done exactly the same before more efficiently and effectively and have dealt with the problem that can be seen looming in the headlights..

 

Yup. Everyone has to reinvent their own wheel!

[Phoenix16]

3 hours ago, Quoll said:

No, you’re right, it’s not Britain with sunshine, it’s a foreign country that happens to speak English (after a fashion and drive on the left. I think too many migrants forget that things are done differently and the Aussies don’t take kindly to folk from elsewhere rocking in and pontificating on “back home we ...”

 This is so true, within weeks of landing I quickly realised the only commonality we shared was the English language, the rest was foreign, alien and took many years to adjust to xxx

[VERYSTORMY]

I was finding at 45 many employers thought I was too old. You also need to get past the "Australian experience" thing, which in most occupations is laughable. 

[NomadicBrit]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, really appreciate it and its helped clarify our thoughts. A lot. 

I have yet to hear back about one job, at a blue chip company, but have nothing else on the horizon and nothing else really to apply for. As I said, I can walk into a job back home, due to contacts and experience and I have nothing like that over here. On that balance, if I don't get this job I'm waiting to hear back from, we will head back to the UK. 

To answer PiP, I have tried outside of the box, applying for Project Management contract roles, etc, and still no dice. The Australian Experience thing is laughable but true, especially in Financial Services where they are at least 10 years behind what I've been working in. So I guess the "experience" they are looking for is to unlearn a bunch of stuff. C'est la vie. 

I'm relatively chilled about it, its been a journey (expensive one!), but we had pretty much decided last night that, after 9 months, we'd given it a fair go and I guess we aren't prepared to bang our heads against a brick wall anymore, this last job offer pending. Even if I get that, might only give it 6 months just due to the break clause on the lease we have. 

Thanks again for the replies. 

[BacktoDemocracy]

35 minutes ago, NomadicBrit said:

Thanks for all the replies everyone, really appreciate it and its helped clarify our thoughts. A lot. 

I have yet to hear back about one job, at a blue chip company, but have nothing else on the horizon and nothing else really to apply for. As I said, I can walk into a job back home, due to contacts and experience and I have nothing like that over here. On that balance, if I don't get this job I'm waiting to hear back from, we will head back to the UK. 

To answer PiP, I have tried outside of the box, applying for Project Management contract roles, etc, and still no dice. The Australian Experience thing is laughable but true, especially in Financial Services where they are at least 10 years behind what I've been working in. So I guess the "experience" they are looking for is to unlearn a bunch of stuff. C'est la vie. 

I'm relatively chilled about it, its been a journey (expensive one!), but we had pretty much decided last night that, after 9 months, we'd given it a fair go and I guess we aren't prepared to bang our heads against a brick wall anymore, this last job offer pending. Even if I get that, might only give it 6 months just due to the break clause on the lease we have. 

Thanks again for the replies. 

See if you can get somebody to take over your lease, offer a contribution or dowry if the agent can get someone to take it over, offer the agent a reward if they put it up for re lease

[Paul1Perth]

12 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Even when we have done exactly the same before more efficiently and effectively and have dealt with the problem that can be seen looming in the headlights..

 

Beg to differ mate. I think Aus has learned a lot from mistakes the UK made and is determined not to go down the same path.

[s713]

I'd echo most of the points the OP makes. We've been here 11 years, when we first arrived I applied for about 80 jobs, never received so much as an acknowledgement for most, had about 3 interviews from those applications and was lucky to secure a post. Lucky as in the guy interviewing me was also British. The oft-used "Aussie experience" is a real thing and can be a terrible hindrance in securing your first role. After that, it's pretty easy to move about but that's not the point of this thread. Perth has always been about 'who you know', that is still very much alive-and-well.

I also agree about work practices being backward. Not just about the actual work, which in my experience in terms of methodology, process and best practice is aeons behind the UK, but also HR-type issues like jokey sexism and racism which (mostly) disappeared long ago in the UK.

Extra word of warning, my wife took a lesser job to get on the ladder and has never been able to get back to her chosen profession. Prospective employers seem to look at what she is doing in her current role then ignore the rest of the CV.

[Marisawright]

Things have changed so much since I arrived in Australia 30 years ago.

I trained as a secretary, and in the UK, that's all I would ever have been.   In those days, people equated "secretary" with "typist" and moving up into an admin role was out of the question.  

I arrived in Australia and greatly daring, applied for three office manager jobs - and got offered all three of them.  All three were a big step up, supervising staff and managing supplier contracts, but companies were desperate for staff in those days and they had to be willing to give people a chance.

I suspect a lot of people arrive from the UK thinking Australia is still like that - a new country desperate for skilled people.  It's not. It's a first world country the same as any other.  I think people need to ask themselves, how long would it take a foreigner to break into the job market in the UK?    

Edited February 21, 2019 by Marisawright

[Jon the Hat]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Things have changed so much since I arrived in Australia 30 years ago.

I trained as a secretary, and in the UK, that's all I would ever have been.   In those days, people equated "secretary" with "typist" and moving up into an admin role was out of the question.  

I arrived in Australia and greatly daring, applied for three office manager jobs - and got offered all three of them.  All three were a big step up, supervising staff and managing supplier contracts, but companies were desperate for staff in those days and they had to be willing to give people a chance.

I suspect a lot of people arrive from the UK thinking Australia is still like that - a new country desperate for skilled people.  It's not. It's a first world country the same as any other.  I think people need to ask themselves, how long would it take a foreigner to break into the job market in the UK?    

Based on the multitude of migrants I have employed over the years who have recently arrived a lot easier than in Australia.  To be fair thought, the temp / contract Market in the UK is strong, so it is usually pretty easy to the get the first role on the CV even if it isn't permanent.

[NomadicBrit]

I agree Jon. The UK is far fairer and more skill-based in terms of the employment, nationality is absolutely a secondary consideration. I have interviewed and employed many people whilst working for UK companies and it was always judged on the best person for the role with the best experience and skillset. 

I have friends living here (for several years) and always knew it was a first world country, but given that I was given a PR visa in 9 months, I assumed there would be plenty of opportunities and my skills would be more than relevant. It seems the immigration system is a little broken in that respect and I was naive thinking it would be a skill based judgement. It has been a learning experience and I strongly advise anyone of a similar age, regardless of how relevant their CV is, particularly in IT, to try and secure something ahead of the big move. It will save a lot of money and stress. 

 

[Jenki75]

When we moved to Canada from the Uk. My parents and I had the mentality of we would take any job so we could pay the Bill's. Moving back was never an option for us. We all obtained employment, but it was not even close to the jobs we had all done in the Uk. My Dad went back 25 years to being back on the tools as a machinist. He was a quality control inspector in he UK. It took him a couple of years to get back to what he used to do in the UK. Times were bad back then with high unemployment but we made it work. 

When I move to Australia, I will come with the same mentality as it surved me well in the past. I am in what I consider to be a very cushy job at the moment, but I plan on going back to having to prove myself and bust my ass to make a name for myself in a new country.

I tend to search jobs online and then try to find out the email and phone number of the person actually hiring. I like to personally chat over the phone or in person with Australian managers as it works out better for me. 

[Amber Snowball]

29 minutes ago, Jenki75 said:

When we moved to Canada from the Uk. My parents and I had the mentality of we would take any job so we could pay the Bill's. Moving back was never an option for us. We all obtained employment, but it was not even close to the jobs we had all done in the Uk. My Dad went back 25 years to being back on the tools as a machinist. He was a quality control inspector in he UK. It took him a couple of years to get back to what he used to do in the UK. Times were bad back then with high unemployment but we made it work. 

When I move to Australia, I will come with the same mentality as it surved me well in the past. I am in what I consider to be a very cushy job at the moment, but I plan on going back to having to prove myself and bust my ass to make a name for myself in a new country.

I tend to search jobs online and then try to find out the email and phone number of the person actually hiring. I like to personally chat over the phone or in person with Australian managers as it works out better for me. 

I think that’s a fair approach when you first move. It becomes more difficult once you have been in a country for a while and built your career up again as your life gets set up around a certain income. I found roles at the pay level I needed were few and far between and heavily fought over. The one I had is likely to disappear or be downgraded in the next couple of years due to funding.

Most Australian jobs openly have a contact for the hiring manager and it’s always worth making contact prior to submitting an application. I liked people to calland would make a note of their name.

You sound pretty resilient and resourceful so hopefully that will pay off for you. 

Good luck with your move. What area of nursing are you in?

[Jenki75]

I am in a specialty area, womens health. I have peri-operative skills (scrub and scout), pre operative and post operative skills, surgical nursing skills, newborn nursing skills, post partum, breastfeeding, triage and charge nurse  experience among many other skills. 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Jenki75
Update

[Amber Snowball]

1 minute ago, Jenki75 said:

I am in a specialty area, womens health. I have peri-operative skills (scrub and scout), pre operative and post operative skills, surgical nursing skills, newborn nursing skills, post partum, breastfeeding, triage and charge nurse  experience among many other skills. 

You should be able to land something from that list!

Acute nursing frequently has more openings than the community where I was.

Good luck!

[Jenki75]

Just now, Amber Snowball said:

You should be able to land something from that list!

Acute nursing frequently has more openings than the community where I was.

Good luck!

Managers seem quite interested in me from the conversations I've had. I just need the visa, feels like such a long process.

I've done a bit of community myself, but more on the school side of things. I was thinking of taking my immunization certification before coming over, so I could at least do flu clinic as a casual.

[Amber Snowball]

1 minute ago, Jenki75 said:

Managers seem quite interested in me from the conversations I've had. I just need the visa, feels like such a long process.

I've done a bit of community myself, but more on the school side of things. I was thinking of taking my immunization certification before coming over, so I could at least do flu clinic as a casual.

Will they recognise an overseas imms qual? Not sure.

Anyway I would think you will find that you get work quite quickly andyou may be pleasantly surprised that you aren’t pushed backwards too much if at all. The recruitment process in Victoria at least was quicker than here in the UK and you won’t have notice to work so hopefully you’ll be up and running quite quickly.

Keeping everything crossed for you! I can’t believe how the visa process has changed/slowed since I went through it 14 odd years ago.

[Jenki75]

I was going to do the online course through South Australia for immunization.  Yes things have sure changed with immigration and I think more changes should be expected. 

Nice chatting with you