Betsey Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Asking this question on behalf of a friend who is very concerned that her 22 yr old son has been manipulated into marrying an overseas student who only had the aim of marrying to stay in Australia. Yes, the son is an adult but a naïve and immature one - lived at home until after the marriage, never had another girlfriend and just finished his studies. There were a number of red flags when they were going out including the girlfriend (now wife) exceeding the 20 hour working limit, not attending classes and lying about her age, her job, her previous marriage overseas and her children from that relationship. My friend and her husband only found out about the wedding by accident - it was kept secret from them. The son and wife have now applied for the 820/801 Partner visa. It seems they have both claimed in their supporting documents (relationship statement) that the girlfriend was living with the son at the family home and that she would interact with all the family - cooking dinners etc - all fibs. Does anyone know how thorough or detailed reviews by case managers are? Would they contact parents and family as a matter of course? My friend has considered reporting her concerns online but her husband is very against this. In that context, the easier option for her would be for any action to be out of their hands. She knows either path will end in unhappiness but ultimately is hoping to protect her son from long term heartbreak and financial devastation. Any advice welcome - thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 40 minutes ago, Betsey said: Asking this question on behalf of a friend who is very concerned that her 22 yr old son has been manipulated into marrying an overseas student who only had the aim of marrying to stay in Australia. Yes, the son is an adult but a naïve and immature one - lived at home until after the marriage, never had another girlfriend and just finished his studies. There were a number of red flags when they were going out including the girlfriend (now wife) exceeding the 20 hour working limit, not attending classes and lying about her age, her job, her previous marriage overseas and her children from that relationship. My friend and her husband only found out about the wedding by accident - it was kept secret from them. The son and wife have now applied for the 820/801 Partner visa. It seems they have both claimed in their supporting documents (relationship statement) that the girlfriend was living with the son at the family home and that she would interact with all the family - cooking dinners etc - all fibs. Does anyone know how thorough or detailed reviews by case managers are? Would they contact parents and family as a matter of course? My friend has considered reporting her concerns online but her husband is very against this. In that context, the easier option for her would be for any action to be out of their hands. She knows either path will end in unhappiness but ultimately is hoping to protect her son from long term heartbreak and financial devastation. Any advice welcome - thanks. They will not ordinarily contact family or friends, only if there are concerns. If the case officer can see no issue with the application they will not contact anyone. If the family have concerns they can contact Immigration, it can be done anonymously, and whatever they say will be thoroughly investigated. Just be very sure that they are aware it WILL be investigated and there is a good chance the visa will be refused, the woman would have to leave and would possibly have a ban on returning. If they have blatantly lied on the documents, that is just foolish on their part and really should be brought to the attention of Immigration, especially if it is implicating the family by saying they were living with them - that sort of lie can come back and bite the family later. When my husband applied for his spouse visa it was refused partly due to lies told by a third party who phoned Immigration, so just make sure anyone who makes a call is aware of the possible consequences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber Snowball Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Just to add that presumably this friends son has also lied on the application so I doubt he would get off scott free. They need to be prepared for him to face some sort of punishment as well. Might be a fine or caution or whatever but could go on his record. Once the genie is out of the bottle, unless he has a learning disability and was taken advantage of, he won’t have much of a defence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 They need to get advice from a good agent ASAP. If their son isn’t a citizen but only PR they could move to cancel his visa for visa fraud, not saying this will happen but they are clamping down on this and have to powers to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 It's unlikely they would be contacted - but the couple could be asked to provide more documentation if the case officer feels it's insufficient. I've read that people usually provide statements from family/friends about the relationship. It's a real dilemma for your friends as they know their son has made fraudulent claims to immigration, as rammy girl suggests, if it's proven to be a 'fake marriage' if he's only PR then there might possibly be a chance that his own visa would be cancelled and they be deported with a ban on further visa's. I'm assuming that they've been in a partnership for more than 12 months which suggests some commitment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 5 hours ago, ali said: It's unlikely they would be contacted - but the couple could be asked to provide more documentation if the case officer feels it's insufficient. I've read that people usually provide statements from family/friends about the relationship. It's a real dilemma for your friends as they know their son has made fraudulent claims to immigration, as rammy girl suggests, if it's proven to be a 'fake marriage' if he's only PR then there might possibly be a chance that his own visa would be cancelled and they be deported with a ban on further visa's. I'm assuming that they've been in a partnership for more than 12 months which suggests some commitment. If they are married there is no requirement for the 12 months relationship, they can apply the day after they marry. All Partner applications need statements from friends and/or family to support the application and the case officer is able to contact them if necessary, though I must admit I have never heard of it happening. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Thank you all for your advice and comments that I have passed on to my friend. She is happy to learn that an anonymous report will result in an investigation, it’s just the repercussions that will flow from that for both parties. I don’t think she had thought about potential penalties for her son. She also just told me that her husband said the son would never talk too her again if she did so. Her son is a citizen so at least no consquences on that front. She really is between a rock and a hard place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Betsey said: Thank you all for your advice and comments that I have passed on to my friend. She is happy to learn that an anonymous report will result in an investigation, it’s just the repercussions that will flow from that for both parties. I don’t think she had thought about potential penalties for her son. She also just told me that her husband said the son would never talk too her again if she did so. Her son is a citizen so at least no consquences on that front. She really is between a rock and a hard place. I suppose the question is, would the son work out that she was the one who made the report? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 It sounds as if the son is happy enough to proceed. Has he really been conned into marriage or is he happy - it certainly sounds like he is happy enough to make the fraudulent statements to allow his wife to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Nemesis said: If they are married there is no requirement for the 12 months relationship, they can apply the day after they marry. All Partner applications need statements from friends and/or family to support the application and the case officer is able to contact them if necessary, though I must admit I have never heard of it happening. I still thought that even married you would need to prove some longevity to your relationship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 19 hours ago, Marisawright said: I suppose the question is, would the son work out that she was the one who made the report? She’s been very vocal about her opposition to the marriage so she would be his main suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 hours ago, ali said: It sounds as if the son is happy enough to proceed. Has he really been conned into marriage or is he happy - it certainly sounds like he is happy enough to make the fraudulent statements to allow his wife to stay. Sorry, I probably didn’t make it very clear that he wants to be with the woman. He’s happy to do whatever it takes. He’s besotted and making foolish decisions. He only has a casual job and she is still working as a “dancer” in a cocktail bar. The son also seems to think that his wife will be happy for her children to remain where they are indefinitely. They were dating for 6 months before getting married in secret. My friend would love nothing more than to see the wife out of the country but is now more realistic about what that would mean in terms of her family relationships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber Snowball Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, Betsey said: Sorry, I probably didn’t make it very clear that he wants to be with the woman. He’s happy to do whatever it takes. He’s besotted and making foolish decisions. He only has a casual job and she is still working as a “dancer” in a cocktail bar. The son also seems to think that his wife will be happy for her children to remain where they are indefinitely. They were dating for 6 months before getting married in secret. My friend would love nothing more than to see the wife out of the country but is now more realistic about what that would mean in terms of her family relationships. I think your friend needs to step back. She can tell them she won’t lie for them if asked but she doesn’t have to proactively make a complaint either. She just needs to let this play out to its natural conclusion, whatever that might be. It’s a tough one but it is his life to lead. This may not have a happy ending any time soon...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Amber Snowball said: I think your friend needs to step back. She can tell them she won’t lie for them if asked but she doesn’t have to proactively make a complaint either. She just needs to let this play out to its natural conclusion, whatever that might be. It’s a tough one but it is his life to lead. This may not have a happy ending any time soon...... Yes, that seems to be the best answer. She is hopeful still that she will be contacted but has decided she won’t initiate it. He has his own journey and I guess she will be there to pick up the pieces if needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Unfortunately she's also then being complicit in immigration fraud. Given the numerous hurdles genuine applicants have to go through, it's sad to see that someone is willing to turn a blind eye to blatant lies being made in order to get a visa. I don't envy your friend the position she's in, and hopefully Immigration will catch wind of the situation even without her reporting it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 10 hours ago, MaggieMay24 said: Unfortunately she's also then being complicit in immigration fraud. Given the numerous hurdles genuine applicants have to go through, it's sad to see that someone is willing to turn a blind eye to blatant lies being made in order to get a visa. I don't envy your friend the position she's in, and hopefully Immigration will catch wind of the situation even without her reporting it. She is an utterly honest person and this is tearing her to pieces. At this point she is trying to be hands-off, hoping Home Affairs will clue into the situation without her interference. I am thinking hard about reporting the woman myself but I am really leery of meddling and likely making an impossible family situation far worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon the Hat Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 What a horrible situation. I wonder what proportion of applicants don't have a Statutory declaration from a family member of the sponsor? I guess not everyone is in touch with their family, but to say you live with them but not include a declaration form them to support that would surely raise red flag? If I was a case officer that would raise by suspicions. They could always wait a few weeks, report this, and then tell their son they were called by a case worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsey Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 17 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: What a horrible situation. I wonder what proportion of applicants don't have a Statutory declaration from a family member of the sponsor? I guess not everyone is in touch with their family, but to say you live with them but not include a declaration form them to support that would surely raise red flag? If I was a case officer that would raise by suspicions. They could always wait a few weeks, report this, and then tell their son they were called by a case worker. Yes you would think so. I believe their stat decs also described the wedding (in the same city where they all live) with no mention of why the parents didn't attend - another red flag I would think (hope). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 19 hours ago, Jon the Hat said: What a horrible situation. I wonder what proportion of applicants don't have a Statutory declaration from a family member of the sponsor? I guess not everyone is in touch with their family, but to say you live with them but not include a declaration form them to support that would surely raise red flag? If I was a case officer that would raise by suspicions. They could always wait a few weeks, report this, and then tell their son they were called by a case worker. They can report it anonymously. Even if the son later does a Freedom of Info request, he need never know who made the report. Anonymous reporters to Immigration are not asked for names and addresses. The only details recorded are the time/date of the call. Not even whether the caller is male or female, in oz or abroad. The caller is then asked to give as much info as they can to identify the applicant concerned, and explain why the report is being made. A FOI will have the transcript of the call in it, word for word. If the caller does not identify themselves within the call then no-one, not the applicant, nor Immigration themselves, will ever know who the call comes from. Its not something to be done on a whim, as all calls are investigated and one call can ruin not just a visa application, but lives, jobs, homes and marriages. https://www.directory.gov.au/portfolios/home-affairs/department-home-affairs/immigration-citizenship-fraud There is also an online form. https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/help-and-support/departmental-forms/online-forms/border-watch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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