Advice needed on wanting to move back to Aus again.

[Entity]

My husband and I are English, we lived in Wellington, NZ for about 7 years (we have NZ passports) before moving to Sydney in 2007 where we had two children. I have a sibling and nieces in Sydney. We moved back to the UK in 2012, our reasons at the time were financial and for our children to be near grandparents in the UK. After a short time back, we both regretted our decision, however our parents are here and obviously getting older. I am desperate to move back to Australia as is my husband. Our children are 10 and 8, they both love sport and also want to move although we don’t discuss it with them. They are obviously both in school, my husband has his own business here. Are we mad to move back or do I wait it out and hope my feelings change? I feel desperate that we have only one life and we are getting older as are our children. Do I stay here for our parents or do we greatly upset them by moving back again. I am at the stage of wishing I could be brain-washed to forget about Australia but it just won’t leave me  Has anyone been in a similar position and what advice could you give?

[JetBlast]

As you have New Zealand passports there are different path ways to getting an Australia visa. These links may be useful.

https://www.govt.nz/browse/leaving-nz/move-and-live-in-australia/moving-to-australia/

https://newzealand.embassy.gov.au/wltn/VisaFAQ.html

https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/new-zealand-citizens/pathway-to-permanent-resident-and-citizenship

Edited January 4, 2019 by JetBlast

[JetBlast]

I read it again and noticed you had lived in Australia before. It might be useful to share what visas you were on during that time.

[Entity]

We have Kiwi passports so can live and work in Australia. Our children were born in Australia and also have Kiwi passports. So my understanding is we can live and work in Australia as we did before. It’s more people’s thoughts on moving back again that I’m interested in.

[Entity]

Well I’m assuming we can live and work in Australia, my understanding is that we don’t get some benefits. Thank you for the links, I will look through these.

[Melbpom]

I would put the needs of your family first and if that means a move back to Australia then go. You're already familiar with the lifestyle and while the kids won't remember much given their ages, if you're happy they will be. As for parents, yes it will be hard to leave them and there'll be a certain amount of guilt but you can always make regular visits back and maybe they can visit.

[Quoll]

If you’re all desperate to go then go. Will it work? Who knows. Will you regret it? Who knows. Will you cope with leaving elderly relatives behind? Who knows. End of the day, neither place is going anywhere, so if you go and it works, you win. If you go and it doesn’t work then move on - to NZ or U.K.whichever seems the next step. Not sure that I would be thinking of Australia in the longer term though given your visa status - I don’t think it’s the most stable of situations and you never know when the goal posts might get inched over.

[Marisawright]

Be aware that Sydney house prices have increased massively since you left.  If you left for financial reasons last time, I'd be concerned about surviving this time.

We sold up around the same time as you, did some travelling and then spent some time in the UK.   When we decided to return to Australia, we discovered that it was simply impossible to go back to Sydney.   The little townhouse we'd sold for $600,000 in 2012 would now cost over a million. To rent a nice flat in our old area would cost around $750 a week.  

We are now in Melbourne, where I'd say house prices are about the same as 2012 Sydney prices. 

Depending what jobs you do, if you want to be close to your family in Sydney, then I'd suggest looking at Newcastle - still close enough for a day trip to Sydney on the weekend, housing is much more affordable, great beaches and it's nothing like the old working-class town it used to be.

[Entity]

Thank you Marisa. We very much regret selling our Sydney townhouse but we cannot change the past. We also sold ours for $620,000 in 2010 and as you say it is now worth over a million. I know property prices have dramatically increased since we left. We have indirect family in Newcastle so I will look into this area. I would need to see if there is work there for us. My husband is keen on the Gold Coast but we have no contacts or network there. Thank you.

[Bulya]

32 minutes ago, Entity said:

Thank you Marisa. We very much regret selling our Sydney townhouse but we cannot change the past. We also sold ours for $620,000 in 2010 and as you say it is now worth over a million. I know property prices have dramatically increased since we left. We have indirect family in Newcastle so I will look into this area. I would need to see if there is work there for us. My husband is keen on the Gold Coast but we have no contacts or network there. Thank you.

Newcastle/Port Stephens area is much nicer than Sydney.  

[Marisawright]

34 minutes ago, Entity said:

Thank you Marisa. We very much regret selling our Sydney townhouse but we cannot change the past. We also sold ours for $620,000 in 2010 and as you say it is now worth over a million. I know property prices have dramatically increased since we left. We have indirect family in Newcastle so I will look into this area. I would need to see if there is work there for us. My husband is keen on the Gold Coast but we have no contacts or network there. Thank you.

I had colleagues at work who got promoted to the Sydney office and refused to move their families down from Newcastle because they felt it was a much better place to bring up children. That has always stuck with me.

[ali]

I think the advice is the same that's given to people thinking of moving back to the UK, in your heart of hearts it's something you want to do and are currently unhappy then go for it.  Nothing has to be forever.

[benj1980]

I'd go but them I'm happy in Oz! You're fortunate to have access to the country obviously many strive for it and fail. Sometimes I think maybe we take this for granted and forget about why we ensured that we have these options available to us. For me the reason for PR in Oz was my children, I can't live my life through my parents. I left early enough for them to accept I won't be there in their late years although they visit regularly now and we will go back within the next couple of years...

[Entity]

Thank you for your comments. I agree with not living your life through your parents, it’s just all the more difficult because we have done it before and I know how upset my parents were. They are now obviously older and they would be on their own here with no family. I am looking at whether they could get a parent retirement visa as both their children would be living in Australia if we moved back but not sure if that’s an option or if they would move. So much to think about.

[sharon h]

On 04/01/2019 at 17:08, Entity said:

My husband and I are English, we lived in Wellington, NZ for about 7 years (we have NZ passports) before moving to Sydney in 2007 where we had two children. I have a sibling and nieces in Sydney. We moved back to the UK in 2012, our reasons at the time were financial and for our children to be near grandparents in the UK. After a short time back, we both regretted our decision, however our parents are here and obviously getting older. I am desperate to move back to Australia as is my husband. Our children are 10 and 8, they both love sport and also want to move although we don’t discuss it with them. They are obviously both in school, my husband has his own business here. Are we mad to move back or do I wait it out and hope my feelings change? I feel desperate that we have only one life and we are getting older as are our children. Do I stay here for our parents or do we greatly upset them by moving back again. I am at the stage of wishing I could be brain-washed to forget about Australia but it just won’t leave me  Has anyone been in a similar position and what advice could you give?

I’m in exactly the same boat, desperate to go back but worried about leaving my aging parents and devastating them 

[Quoll]

42 minutes ago, Entity said:

Thank you for your comments. I agree with not living your life through your parents, it’s just all the more difficult because we have done it before and I know how upset my parents were. They are now obviously older and they would be on their own here with no family. I am looking at whether they could get a parent retirement visa as both their children would be living in Australia if we moved back but not sure if that’s an option or if they would move. So much to think about.

Why would you expect your your parents trek across the world in their old age to follow you, when you may up and move again, who knows.  It's not always a good move for older folk to leave their lives behind, shell out a fortune for a visa, be financially constrained in a foreign country (frozen pensions, not as many benefits) and maybe not actually enjoy living in a foreign country (a lot of older people really feel the pull of "home" as they near their end).  Before you leave you can help them get settled in supported accommodation perhaps so that you and they know they will be cared for, their friends will still be around and you might help them with the development of a network of friends and more distant relatives.

You'll take the grandkids away from them and they are going to go through the grieving process for that so there is no telling whether they will be rational or not.  But don't expect them to visit constantly - why should they spend a fortune and be uncomfortable for hours on end on flights just because you decided to leave?  Some parents do, I acknowledge but the generic "if they want to see the grandkids they have to come here" is rather cruel imho (we see it all the time).  You can build in return trips I am sure. You can send the kids back for holidays as UMs if you can't all afford to go.

Personally I hate Skype as a grand parenting tool - in lots of ways I would much rather out of sight out of mind (much less painful) but your parents might enjoy their contact with the kids that way,  I do it for the kids but I defy anyone to get a cuddle over Skype you could get the simplest of systems set up for them, they may or may not use it.  I am elderly but still quite happy to do the 24 hour flight thing, I've been doing it for nearly half a century so I am used to it, others not so much.

Bottom line though, it's your life, you do what you want with it and get on with it. If you hurt people on the journey you'll just have to suck it up and get on with it - you've got to be selfish and self sufficient to be a good migrant.

Edited to say I should have said what we did - we lived our lives in Australia until the point where both my husband and I took one look at my ageing and increasingly frail parents and both said (although he was the one with the most to lose!) "We cant leave them alone here like this" so we just didn't go back to Australia after one holiday.  It's worked out well - I happen to love living in England and, now, so does my DH.  We cared for mum until her death 2 years ago and we still provide 24/7 care for my dad.  My conscience is clear.  I could not have left them alone although I suspect they would have both popped their clogs much earlier had we deserted them.  We provide too good care and it is onerous - there are days when even I would get on a plane to Aus and never look back but we dont.  We will return when dad dies, that's the agreement I have made with the DH who has been the most amazing and wonderful husband I could ever have wished for. As it happens, one of our sons came to UK on holiday for a year in 2002 and is now happily married with a young lad, a good career and a home of his own in London.  He won't be going back and openly says, that there is nothing in Aus for him - so I see a future and a fortune spent on international flights as long as I am able.

Edited January 14, 2019 by Quoll

[Marisawright]

4 hours ago, Entity said:

 I am looking at whether they could get a parent retirement visa as both their children would be living in Australia if we moved back but not sure if that’s an option or if they would move. So much to think about.

It's a very tough road and it's only going to get worse, so I wouldn't bank on being able to get a Parent visa.  The processing time for the Non-Contributory Visa is 30 years (in other words, never!).  The processing time for the Contributory Visa is 5-6 years and I think the fees are around $100,000.  

I'm sure there are parents who make the move and love it, but I've also met a few in real life and none of them were entirely happy.  Because they'd had to stump up such a high fee, they couldn't afford such a nice home in Australia as they had in the UK, and they had to be very conscious of their budget because of their frozen pension.  They had to throw out a lot of their treasured possessions.   They were glad to be in Australia to see their grandkids - but that was only once a week, and the rest of the week they had to live in their cramped flat, watching their pennies and missing their friends.   

For that reason, I'd say please don't push them to get the parent visa, or assume they will want to go.  It's a big step to throw away a lifetime of memories and friendship and move to a foreign country in your old age.  

Edited January 14, 2019 by Marisawright

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

It's a very tough road and it's only going to get worse, so I wouldn't bank on being able to get a Parent visa.  The processing time for the Non-Contributory Visa is 30 years (in other words, never!).  The processing time for the Contributory Visa is 5-6 years and I think the fees are around $100,000.  

I'm sure there are parents who make the move and love it, but I've also met a few in real life and none of them were entirely happy.  Because they'd had to stump up such a high fee, they couldn't afford such a nice home in Australia as they had in the UK, and they had to be very conscious of their budget because of their frozen pension.  They had to throw out a lot of their treasured possessions.   They were glad to be in Australia to see their grandkids - but that was only once a week, and the rest of the week they had to live in their cramped flat, watching their pennies and missing their friends.   

For that reason, I'd say please don't push them to get the parent visa, or assume they will want to go.  It's a big step to throw away a lifetime of memories and friendship and move to a foreign country in your old age.  K

 

1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

It's a very tough road and it's only going to get worse, so I wouldn't bank on being able to get a Parent visa.  The processing time for the Non-Contributory Visa is 30 years (in other words, never!).  The processing time for the Contributory Visa is 5-6 years and I think the fees are around $100,000.  

I'm sure there are parents who make the move and love it, but I've also met a few in real life and none of them were entirely happy.  Because they'd had to stump up such a high fee, they couldn't afford such a nice home in Australia as they had in the UK, and they had to be very conscious of their budget because of their frozen pension.  They had to throw out a lot of their treasured possessions.   They were glad to be in Australia to see their grandkids - but that was only once a week, and the rest of the week they had to live in their cramped flat, watching their pennies and missing their friends.   

For that reason, I'd say please don't push them to get the parent visa, or assume they will want to go.  It's a big step to throw away a lifetime of memories and friendship and move to a foreign country in your old age.  

Thank goodness all the ‘old folk’ I know and trust me that’s loads as I am in my 70’s and moved to Australia in my old age, certainly don’t live the life described above and by other posters, there must be some though.

Yes the state pension is frozen, but how many retired people only have the state pension to rely on if they have worked. This might apply to a widow who has never worked?

I completely agree no one should be pushed into uprooting their lives, and that the reality of being part of their grandchildren’s lives might not meet expectations especially as they get older, but do be honest how many actually live their lives through their children and grandchildren. No one I know does, 

The cost of the visa has to be taken into consideration, not cheap, yes just about $50,000 each, but the reason is that if you move here as elderly/retired you haven’t contributed to the Australian economy, and will be eligible for Medicare etc.

In case anyone thinks I don’t understand, I live in Australia 2 children here and 1 in UK, and my only grandchildren age 9 & 11,are in England, I have never lived near them. We do go to UK most years, have absolutely no problem keeping in touch via face time, what a fabulous way to keep up with their lives. In our case we can’t shut them up (I mean that nicely) they just treat it as a completely normal way of us being part of each other’s lives, and luckily our son is really good at making sure of it.I had to laugh once though when the younger one was very young and looked behind the TV once to see if we were there. 

Life living away from part of your family is never going to be easy whatever your age and circumstances, The decion you make is a personal one, and what suits one person won’t suit another. It’s wise for posters to point out the pitfalls, but the important thing is to weigh it all up and hopefully make the right decision for you. One of the hardest thing as you get older is coming to terms with the life you have assumed of living close to your family and grandchildren not happening, it’s not an easy thing to cope with, and can be compared to a bereavement, so sympathy/understanding  is important.

Edited January 14, 2019 by ramot

[Marisawright]

26 minutes ago, ramot said:

I completely agree no one should be pushed into uprooting their lives, and that the reality of being part of their grandchildren’s lives might not meet expectations especially as they get older, but do be honest how many actually live their lives through their children and grandchildren. No one I know does, 

That's what surprised me about the people I've met.  One woman said to me, "I wish I'd realised there is more to life than grandchildren".   She's a lovely outgoing person who does lots of activities, but I get the impression she and her husband moved to Australia thinking, "I must be near the grandkids, I must be near the grandkids, I must be near the grandkids" with no thought about whether Australia would suit them.  They have private pensions but even so, they can't afford to live close to their daughter (in Sydney) and are two hours away up the coast.  She's working hard to make the best of it, now it's done, but if she could have her time again she wouldn't make the move.

So yes, I do think some people live their lives through their children and grandchildren and they are the ones who make possibly unwise decisions to uproot their lives.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Marisawright

[Melbpom]

Entity, I am in the process of moving back to Australia and leaving behind my parents who are in their late 70's. Will they miss me and will I miss them, yes of course but they are fit and healthy and have travelled widely themselves. If they were ill then maybe it would be harder but thankfully they're not. There has never been an expectation that I would care for them (in a hands on way) in their old age. They in their turn were living overseas when their parents eventually went into care homes.

I am returning to Australia because I think I have a better quality of life there and have been miserable here. The other really important reason is that I miss my youngest son who stayed behind to go to uni. He is not quite on his feet yet and is pleased that I and my oldest son are returning.

What I'm trying to say is that all family situations are different and only you can go with your gut and do whatever feels right.

[ramot]

31 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

That's what surprised me about the people I've met.  One woman said to me, "I wish I'd realised there is more to life than grandchildren".   She's a lovely outgoing person who does lots of activities, but I get the impression she and her husband moved to Australia thinking, "I must be near the grandkids, I must be near the grandkids, I must be near the grandkids" with no thought about whether Australia would suit them.  They have private pensions but even so, they can't afford to live close to their daughter (in Sydney) and are two hours away up the coast.  She's working hard to make the best of it, now it's done, but if she could have her time again she wouldn't make the move.

So yes, I do think some people live their lives through their children and grandchildren and they are the ones who make possibly unwise decisions to uproot their lives.

Also depends where you move from in UK and expect to live in Australia. Costs in Sydney compare to London so potential people moving should have a reality check by asking themselves could I afford to live in London? Probably no, especially as the property prices have gone mad in Sydney and other places over the last few years. Even here on the Sunshine Coast popular places have really jumped recently as more and more are moving from Sydney etc. with plenty of money to spend. Don’t blame them moving here though!!!

[Jon the Hat]

This is a very good point.  You need some equity and a decent income - if you can earn a good income in Sydney as in London call it $200k + and take $500k of equity with you then I'm sure it is doable.  Have $200k of equity and earn $100k and really you will be living way inland somewhere.  Might be lovely, but not the dream of short commute and living near the beach.

[Marisawright]

39 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

This is a very good point.  You need some equity and a decent income - if you can earn a good income in Sydney as in London call it $200k + and take $500k of equity with you then I'm sure it is doable.  

Bear in mind that someone who is retired can't get a mortgage.  So to live in Sydney they're going to need at least $800K in cash just to buy an apartment.

[Jon the Hat]

18 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Bear in mind that someone who is retired can't get a mortgage.  So to live in Sydney they're going to need at least $800K in cash just to buy an apartment.

Good point.

[ramot]

18 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Bear in mind that someone who is retired can't get a mortgage.  So to live in Sydney they're going to need at least $800K in cash just to buy an apartment.

Is this a new rule? When did it change?I don’t know anyone retired who has moved here recently but all our friends plus us didn’t have any problem