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Suus

NSW 190 Secondary school teacher

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8 hours ago, Khrys said:

Hi,

Do you know whether NSW has sent any invitations this week?

Yes, they sent invitations yesterday

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Figures up to 11th November 2018 recently released, 250 visas granted for 2ndy school teachers out of a total 8480 available so still plenty available 😁

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1 minute ago, Burnsie said:

Figures up to 11th November 2018 recently released, 250 visas granted for 2ndy school teachers out of a total 8480 available so still plenty available 😁

October 2018 figures were 115

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11 hours ago, garrychandi said:

Yes, they sent invitations yesterday

I haven't seen any invites for teachers on a 190 this week, only trades, midwives and nurses. If you know of secondary teachers who are being invited, how many points did they have? I have 65+5 for NSW and have had my EOI in since July!

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1 hour ago, JDJones said:

I haven't seen any invites for teachers on a 190 this week, only trades, midwives and nurses. If you know of secondary teachers who are being invited, how many points did they have? I have 65+5 for NSW and have had my EOI in since July!

I don't think they invited any teachers. This time around they even skipped the chefs as couple of my mates were hoping for an invite. What i gathered from all over the other forums, there were very few invitations were issued compared to last year. I don't understand the politics around all this, on one hand they are saying they need teachers ( USYD offers $10000  a year) scholarship to do a degree in teaching and then they ignore all the teachers who are waiting, They should be inviting teachers 60+ 5 ss if they need teachers

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10 hours ago, garrychandi said:

I don't understand the politics around all this, on one hand they are saying they need teachers ( USYD offers $10000  a year) scholarship to do a degree in teaching and then they ignore all the teachers who are waiting, They should be inviting teachers 60+ 5 ss if they need teachers

You would think that, right? And you would be wrong.

The occupational ceilings are loosely based on demand, but are also so high that they do not actually limit occupations not truly in demand.

Invitation is then based on points, not demand. And there are literally thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of accountant/engineer/ICT professionals with 75+ points clamoring to drive taxi's and manage retail stores (because 70 percent of the pro-ratas are not in fact working as professionals for at least 5 years according to census data).

Throw in that there are not many teachers, and even fewer at 75+ points because that would mean you probably have 10 years of experience; and teachers with that much experience are typically 'settled' (e.g. not interested in migration).

Final nail in the coffin is the reduction in total invites (albeit against parliamentary planning). This chokes out all the sub 70 pointers because of the giant backlog it creates. And really, the majority of teachers looking to migrate are going to be in the 60-65 point range, so teachers are largely out despite being highly employable.

The outcome is that the 'ideal' migrant is an experienced professional unlikely to find work in their profession.

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12 hours ago, garrychandi said:

I don't think they invited any teachers. This time around they even skipped the chefs as couple of my mates were hoping for an invite. What i gathered from all over the other forums, there were very few invitations were issued compared to last year. I don't understand the politics around all this, on one hand they are saying they need teachers ( USYD offers $10000  a year) scholarship to do a degree in teaching and then they ignore all the teachers who are waiting, They should be inviting teachers 60+ 5 ss if they need teachers

Ah, but training a local person solves the teacher shortage AND reduces unemployment at the same time, which is politically more desirable. 


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

Ah, but training a local person solves the teacher shortage AND reduces unemployment at the same time, which is politically more desirable. 

Yeah i agree with you, but thats not the argument i was making. I was trying to point out there is an evidence that they have shortage of teachers

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3 hours ago, Karstedt said:

You would think that, right? And you would be wrong.

The occupational ceilings are loosely based on demand, but are also so high that they do not actually limit occupations not truly in demand.

Invitation is then based on points, not demand. And there are literally thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of accountant/engineer/ICT professionals with 75+ points clamoring to drive taxi's and manage retail stores (because 70 percent of the pro-ratas are not in fact working as professionals for at least 5 years according to census data).

Throw in that there are not many teachers, and even fewer at 75+ points because that would mean you probably have 10 years of experience; and teachers with that much experience are typically 'settled' (e.g. not interested in migration).

Final nail in the coffin is the reduction in total invites (albeit against parliamentary planning). This chokes out all the sub 70 pointers because of the giant backlog it creates. And really, the majority of teachers looking to migrate are going to be in the 60-65 point range, so teachers are largely out despite being highly employable.

The outcome is that the 'ideal' migrant is an experienced professional unlikely to find work in their profession.

I totally agree with you. So from my experience what i have seen over the last year or so, ICT and Accountant push every one out of the competition with their high points (they can do professional year to get 5 extra points etc). It was pretty hard for trade people to get an invitation through 189 as most trade workers have diploma which reduces their points, to compensate that states started prioritising trade workers. But they totally missed the point that there are other general occupations that can't get enough points, teachers are the best example of that

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42 minutes ago, garrychandi said:

Yeah i agree with you, but thats not the argument i was making. I was trying to point out there is an evidence that they have shortage of teachers

Only in some subjects and in some states.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Only in some subjects and in some states.

By comparison, there is no shortage of pro-ratas of any kind in any state... yet they remain a priority. Unless by shortage, they mean 'suitable' candidates. In engineering there are 28.9 applicants per position with only 2.3 considered 'suitable' by employers. Ouch... over 90% of engineers in AU are considered unsuitable. I'm making a leap here, but I reckon those are mostly the migrant engineers reporting that they have not obtained a professional level of employment.

Here's a snippet from the latest NSW School Teacher labour market research (it is still reported that there is no shortage) -

"The average of 9.6 applicants per vacancy is the lowest since 2008-09, and is below the average for the past 10 years of 12.5 applicants per vacancy."

They also report 3.3 'suitable' applicants per vacancy. So sure, there are more suitable teacher applicants than engineer applicants. Hence I can see that flooding the marketplace with unwanted migrant engineers seems like the best course of action. Let's ignore the effect that has on the rising youth unemployment in AU (I suspect heavily contributed to by professional migrants taking low level jobs).

I get these stats from the Department of Jobs and Small Business reports [https://docs.jobs.gov.au/], I don't pull them out of my butt. However, living, studying and working in AU for over 6 years makes them confirmation of what I would have pulled out of my butt through observation.

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8 hours ago, Karstedt said:

You would think that, right? And you would be wrong.

The occupational ceilings are loosely based on demand, but are also so high that they do not actually limit occupations not truly in demand.

Invitation is then based on points, not demand. And there are literally thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of accountant/engineer/ICT professionals with 75+ points clamoring to drive taxi's and manage retail stores (because 70 percent of the pro-ratas are not in fact working as professionals for at least 5 years according to census data).

Throw in that there are not many teachers, and even fewer at 75+ points because that would mean you probably have 10 years of experience; and teachers with that much experience are typically 'settled' (e.g. not interested in migration).

Final nail in the coffin is the reduction in total invites (albeit against parliamentary planning). This chokes out all the sub 70 pointers because of the giant backlog it creates. And really, the majority of teachers looking to migrate are going to be in the 60-65 point range, so teachers are largely out despite being highly employable.

The outcome is that the 'ideal' migrant is an experienced professional unlikely to find work in their profession.

I'm going into my 14th year as a secondary school teacher (not settled) and whilst this gives me a good point score the flip side is that to gain this experience I've grown old so not many points for that category! 😏😂

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9 hours ago, Burnsie said:

I'm going into my 14th year as a secondary school teacher (not settled) and whilst this gives me a good point score the flip side is that to gain this experience I've grown old so not many points for that category! 😏😂

Yeah, forgot to add, that many points means you not only have 10 years of experience, but you started very young. Of all professions, teaching is one where a lot of people come to it later, or start out doing it, then do something else, then come back to it. It's just not a profession where you will have many young highly experienced candidates looking to migrate. I myself have come to it late, but studied in AU... which would land me a job ASAP, but won't get me the work rights. And teachers are not typically employer nominated... sadly, professionals in general are not employer nominated. Something ridiculous like 80% of employer nominated visas are in food and retail management; it's a dodgy way to bring in cheap labour or family members (the announced crackdown on auditing tax records of employer nominated visa holders starting this year is probably 100% warranted).

My larger point however, is that the points system is flawed because it does not reflect employability; and the fewer migrants they allow, the worse it gets. A 60pt teacher/nurse/tradie/chef/barber is likely to find work in their occupation in 6 months. An 80pt pro-rata will be unlikely to get work in their profession for years (perhaps never, because once you haven't worked in an occupation like ICT for a couple years, you become extra extra undesirable).

English proficiency (actual, not related to the tests) also plays a big role in professional occupations, but since the vast majority of migrants do not have an English background and are overwhelmingly drawn to the pro-rata (professional) occupations, they kind of go hand in hand. The census data indicates that pro-rata migrants with an English background are more than twice as likely to find employment, however their numbers are so small the overall percentage is still ridiculously low. Obviously there is an un-quantifiable racism and cultural bias at play too.

The political schism in the liberal party about immigration is playing on social bigotry to rally the troops for political support, so the focus is completely on numbers and fictional social problems rather than the real economic purposes. Economically, they need to keep numbers fairly high, but they also need to revise their points/invitation schema to be more employability focused. They have neglected the later issue for too long and it certainly hasn't helped the public image of migration.

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