Child's dad said no

[Jack91]

Don't do it. The reason to move is wrong. The daughter clearrrrrly loves spending time with her half sisters and what not. My parents divorced, I don't ever recall talking about either of my parents to each other so why would she come home and talk to you about him. Children are clever enough that young to realise one parent doesn't want to hear about the other.

The work life balance isn't all it's cracked up to be. We still work 40+ hours a week. You still only get 2 days for a weekend and when you can get out it's either so damn hot you're unable to do anything or it's raining. Not all sunshine and rainbows and if anyone tells you differently they're lying. 

Please don't get upset with people poo pooing what you want to do, it's advice. That's all. You do what you feel is right. And I'm sure you're aware being a mother the child always comes first!

[Tulip1]

5 hours ago, Marisawright said:

If I could love this post instead of like it, I would.

Me too, it's spot on 

[Marisawright]

I feel sorry for the OP getting bashed over the head about this.

What I would say, though, is that we're all playing devil's advocate because we've all experienced migration ourselves.  We all (well, most of us...) do our research and think we know exactly what Australia will be like.  But we don't, because every human being has a selective memory, and we select the facts to remember based on the outcome we want.

Just read some of the posts in the "Positive moving back to the UK" thread.  All those people moved to Australia knowing it was going to be the best thing for their family - why else would they go to such huge expense and effort? - but they turned out to be wrong, in spite of their certainty.  We all did it - refused to listen to the negatives because it didn't suit our dreams.  For some of us, those negatives weren't serious enough to spoil the experience, but for others they were.

That's why we tend to shout loudly when we see potential pitfalls, because we know it's so easy to push the objections to the back of our minds and pretend they never happened.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Marisawright

[Guest The Pom Queen]

It’s like the OP has said, we don’t know all the story. You cannot say what is right or wrong for the child or the OP and the remainder of her family. We all want what is best for our children. 

‘Yes, I feel for those dads who absolutely adore their children and want to be with them 24/7, but there are also dads (and probably mums) who don’t care one bit about the child but still use them as a pawn to get revenge on the other parent. 

‘My ex tried to kill my son 4 times, should he have been able to stop us moving to Australia? Without me divulging that piece of information (which still haunts me to this day) you would have all been accusing me of being the bad mother and taking him away from his loving father. Not everyone wants to share personal information and they shouldn’t have to. So please before you jump on a thread and start having a go, take one second to think. 

‘To @Aaronandvanessa this subject has always caused mixed emotions so please don’t take it personal. We have members who are fathers whose wife has upped and left them and they were involved in their children’s life. We also have step parents on here who have seen what this has done. Everyone’s circumstances are different and you do what you think is right for YOUR family.  I definitely did the right thing by my son and he has never regretted it nor has he ever wanted to see his father. 

‘What if you stayed in the UK only for your daughter to turn around in 10 years time and move to Australia herself, or hate you for not giving her the choice.

 

[Tulip1]

I've already said what I think and it wasn't welcomed. However, you've put more things on here since so I'll say more. You mention the desire to meet new people and explore new surroundings. That's what you want not your daughter. She doesn't need new people. She needs both parents and siblings.  You say things go like I have to send her with a toothbrush and she's been late for school.  That's just trying to justify what you know is the wrong thing to do, you've even said it's not best for her and she loves her father very much. As parents our children must come before us always. I could never take a child away from their father, wrong to the child and the other parent.  You should leave your Oz dreams as dreams and do what's right for your child, their happiness should be more important than yours.  Never mind your younger child, they will be happy anywhere and your daughter came first. Never mind your partner, he should understand.  I think you'll really struggle to get a court order anyway.  No point in selling pros and cons to an 8 year old, they cannot understand the impact of seeing their father once a year and please do not try telling yourself there won't be an impact, there will and it will be terrible for both child and father and yes, you should think of him as he is 50% a parent just like you. 

[Yorkygirl]

Well said Tulip1. I wish you were around in 1970 pre immigration to speak to my parents. I wonder if Crackerjack is still on here? I hope he and his children are doing ok. They will be grown now.

[Guest]

As a child who was in very similar circumstances as your daughter growing up (even down to no bed on "visit weekends" (sleeping on an old rug) I just want to say I can see you love your daughter and want to protect and guide her to have the best you can give her in life. I wish you all the very best in your future and hope you can all find a way to be happy.

[starlight7]

I really don't think the courts will let you take your daughter away from her father to Australia if he opposes it.  Is it possible to wait until she is older and more able to decide for herself? Even then I can't see it happening.  Certainly if it were the other way round ( leaving Australia to go to the UK and leaving her father in Australia) you wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance of getting permission unless you could prove some sort of abuse on his part.

[tea4too]

Separated and divorced parents can, and do, successfully move to Australia so I would hesitate to tell anyone that migration is a bad idea. But a mother and father’s first and joint responsibility is surely the child they brought into the world, and while the adults are part of the equation what the child needs to feel loved, safe and secure has to be the priority. Separated adults will always disagree on all sorts of issues, but they tend to focus on things not even on the radar of a child whose view on life is much simpler.

 If a new start or change of scene or different opportunities are what the family need, by relocating within the UK it is possible to achieve all of that while also maintaining wider family relationships. When the children are older and more independent that may be a better time for the balance of priorities to shift to include the wants and needs of the adults? But whatever you decide, very little is final. It is just a new direction and the next stage of life. T x

[Beffers]

On 10 September 2018 at 08:13, Aaronandvanessa said:

I hope that isn't a question the court focuses on, because although that would be the outcome that isn't the reason for the move. I don't think taking her away from one of her parents is right, but I do believe over time moving will be more benefical for her happiness as well as our families. It's a catch 22 for me as staying means never getting the chance at new beginnings which has amazing opportunities for my family as a whole, and leaving means I'm taking my child away from her father and other siblings, which would cause a lot of upset. 

The Courts will be totally child-centric, and disregard a lot of fluff for the real facts, such as precisely this question. You will need to provide enough evidence to justify your decision as being in the best interests of your daughter, not yourselves, and also have enough evidence to counteract your ex partners evidence as to why she should stay.

He also has the EU Human Rights legislation on his side, particularly in relation to Article 8 - the right to family life - and the number of people your decision to remove her from the UK would affect (I.e, your daughters extended/step family, all of whom are classed as her family in the eyes of the law).  You need to have strong enough evidence to counteract that.  And you can't use that Article yourself, as you already have the family life in the UK.

In addition, your evidence needs to focus on your daughter, not what you believe is wrong with your ex, as this could just be regarded as parental alienation syndrome or malicious mother syndrome, both of which have been well documented in family law over the last decade or so. 

All that said, there are those who have been successful in gaining permission to remove their child (note also that you'll need to register this with the Australian family law courts as well, as required under The Hague Convention). Get a good solicitor who specialises in international family law. 

 

 

[Jodie&matt]

It’s good to read people’s opinions, regarding this matter.. my children are 14 and 13 and haven’t seen there dad for 5 years, he lives a few miles away and as never bothered with them. Not a phone call or anything! Just a useless piece of ****
My children want to go.. and I’ve told them what will happen if he doesn’t agree and there both happy to go to court and put there point across if asked...
I hope you get things sorted out

[Tulip1]

7 hours ago, Jodie&matt said:

It’s good to read people’s opinions, regarding this matter.. my children are 14 and 13 and haven’t seen there dad for 5 years, he lives a few miles away and as never bothered with them. Not a phone call or anything! Just a useless piece of ****
My children want to go.. and I’ve told them what will happen if he doesn’t agree and there both happy to go to court and put there point across if asked...
I hope you get things sorted out

The father of your children sounds very different to the one in question here. That one is adored by his daughter and has regular contact.  He also has a 'new' family of which the daughter is a big part of. I would also think at your children's age the court may well ask their opinion and take it into account. I'm quite sure they would not ask an eight year old. I wish you luck in your move. It sounds like it doesn't matter where your ex's kids live, he's not interested in seeing them. 

[Jodie&matt]

The father of your children sounds very different to the one in question here. That one is adored by his daughter and has regular contact.  He also has a 'new' family of which the daughter is a big part of. I would also think at your children's age the court may well ask their opinion and take it into account. I'm quite sure they would not ask an eight year old. I wish you luck in your move. It sounds like it doesn't matter where your ex's kids live, he's not interested in seeing them. 

Yes your right, maybe if my situation were different and they seen him every weekend I wouldn’t dream of taking them away from him... I’d of given my right arm for him to have something to do with mine and have that relationship but he’s just not interested at all.. and it’s such a shame he will be the one who regrets it eventually.