Marisawright Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, phil1990 said: Yeah, hence the concern that if I were to "move in" and start the 12 month de-facto relationship when I go for 5 weeks in October that she would have to declare this to Centrelink and lose her payments, and when I come back to the UK to tie up my affairs before moving back on the WHV she would have no income. Its hard. Bottom line - while she's collecting Centrelink payments as a single person, she is legally saying "I am not in a relationship". If it turns out she has been in a de facto relationship with you, she'll be prosecuted for fraud. And Immigration do cross-check. Why would she have no income when you come back to the UK? If you're planning to support her when you move in together, why can't you support her while you're in the UK? Bear in mind it could be worse - if you wanted to bring her to the UK, you'd have to be earning above a certain salary or have a lot of money in the bank. At least you don't have those hurdles to jump moving to Australia. Edited August 21, 2018 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1990 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Marisawright said: Bottom line - while she's collecting Centrelink payments as a single person, she is legally saying "I am not in a relationship". If it turns out she has been in a de facto relationship with you, she'll be prosecuted for fraud. And Immigration do cross-check. Why would she have no income when you come back to the UK? If you're planning to support her when you move in together, why can't you support her while you're in the UK? 33 minutes ago, Beffers said: Do the WHV and spend some more time together. Immigration would be unlikely to accept an application for PMV based on two weeks of face to face contact. When you come over on WHV, can you register your relationship with the NSW authorities? Also if you are going to want to be considered a defacto, then you will both need to accept the fact her Centrelink payments will probably change once that happens. You won't be able to have it both ways, in terms of becoming defacto AND keeping her welfare payments. Yeah, that definitely seems like the best option, we've no issues with her not having Centrelink when I'm over there it's just the concern that with suggestions that entail returning to the UK I would struggle to pay both her rent, bills etc whilst also covering my own bills etc and having to find work back here again in the meantime. I've no issue with understanding that she won't be able to claim them, and there's no way that we would consider that an option, more that I'm concerned if there's a break for a 3 to 6 weeks from finding a job and waiting for first salary payment if I went down one of the routes involving returning to the UK. Also, if it seems like we wouldn't have enough evidence within the 12 month period of the first year WHV to support a Partner visa I'm again concerned that menial labour to complete the 88 days of regional work to satisfy a WHV extension wouldn't pay enough. I guess I need to read some more people's stories who've done WHV->Parter visa without prior accrued "de-facto" months, to reassure myself. Edited August 21, 2018 by phil1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1990 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Update, someone on another forum mentioned "registering our relationship" with NSW (https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/apply-register-relationship-nsw) as a workaround to the 12-month de-facto period, meaning that it would be a lot less stressful coping financially on the WHV and still give us 12-months of evidence plus 5 weeks and 2 weeks previous to the WHV. Very much reassured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, phil1990 said: Update, someone on another forum mentioned "registering our relationship" with NSW (https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/apply-register-relationship-nsw) as a workaround to the 12-month de-facto period, meaning that it would be a lot less stressful coping financially on the WHV and still give us 12-months of evidence plus 5 weeks and 2 weeks previous to the WHV. Very much reassured Er...if you're living together for any of those periods, it's illegal for her to claim benefits. So for instance if you claim the 5 weeks and 2 weeks as proof of your relationship, Centrelink is likely to ask, "so you broke up completely when he went back to the UK?" If not, they could regard her as still part of a couple even though you're out of the country, since you're planning to come back. So I would say, forget including the earlier periods. Just use the evidence of the WHV because once the relationship is registered, you no longer need a minimum twelve-months of evidence. Remember, though, that you still have to submit detailed evidence that the relationship is genuine. Edited August 21, 2018 by Marisawright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1990 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, Marisawright said: Er...if you're living together for any of those periods, it's illegal for her to claim benefits. Also remember that even if you register the relationship, they'll still demand that you prove the relationship is genuine when you come to apply for the partner visa. Yeah, we'd live together for the entire 12 months- whereas if I had to do regional work that wouldn't be possible, or if I had to return to the UK that wouldn't be possible. I'm not sure why you keep going on about the benefits, that's my main concern on how to support her without them. Don't need to be reminded again that it's illegal, well aware! Yeah, that part should be fine, we've got hundreds of photos from the 2 weeks in July of us in various places, on day trips with her children and with her friends at social activities, loads of receipts for travelling, social events and hotels we stayed in together, loads of receipts for posting care-packages to eachother, birthday cards between eachother and to her children, logs of daily phone-calls, receipts for things I've bought for her household, logs of group chats together with her friends, logs of our messages showing emotional support to eachother, should have even more evidence in 5 weeks in October of real life stuff. I'm good friends with 3 of her close friends so they will happily provide statements, as will both of our mums. Will open a joint-account the day I land on the WHV as that seems the best route now and ensure that it clearly shows our two incomes going in, and rent, bills etc coming out, along with receipts of joint-purchases, presents for eachother, receipts for holidays/day trips and hopefully either the school or another relevant professional will be able to provide a statement showing the commitment to her children etc I'm more concerned about the logistics than that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 15 hours ago, phil1990 said: Fantastic Paul that's a great help, will update this thread when I've had another look at everything now I'm not in panic mode! Hopefully, I can formulate some better-structured questions that are less all over the place! I'm assuming from your title and signature that this is your day job? Will send you a DM a bit further down the line to inquire into professional services you offer to help ensure that we are doing the right things evidence-wise etc to assist the partner sponsored visa application! Thanks for your help! You are welcome. Yes, I am a Registered Migration Agent. Feel free to contact me if you require assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 You need to prove the longevity of your relationship and it's genuineness - it feels like you're looking for ways to beat the system and my worry is that Immigration would also view it that way. Do think carefully about the centrelink stuff, your GF will have to pass a character test in order to be your sponsor (and Centrelink fraud wouldn't be a good look). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 A question for @Raul Senise - if the OP went on a WHV and will be in a defacto relationship and co-parenting/providing for his GF's 3 children - would they be classed as dependants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 10 hours ago, phil1990 said: Yeah, that part should be fine, we've got hundreds of photos from the 2 weeks in July of us in various places, on day trips with her children and with her friends at social activities, loads of receipts for travelling, social events and hotels we stayed in together, loads of receipts for posting care-packages to eachother, But you couldn't use any of that, because that relates to when you were dating, not when you were de facto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raul Senise Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 hours ago, ali said: A question for @Raul Senise - if the OP went on a WHV and will be in a defacto relationship and co-parenting/providing for his GF's 3 children - would they be classed as dependants? As the children are Australian, it is not really relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Too many posts to quote them all, but some additional input for what it's worth... Yes Raul is a registered migration agent and has a long history of posting valuable input to the forum so you'd be in good hands There may be several options (and Raul or any other migration agent is the best source of strategy advice) but WHV to 820/801 application may be the best option since it gives you time here on a visa with work rights to build up cohabiting evidence. You can register your relationship in NSW to waive the 12-month requirement in case your pre-move evidence is weak I *think* the WHV only kicks in when you land so even if it is approved now and you don't travel until later, you still have 12 months of valid visa when you arrive. You can only work for any employer for 6 months so that may limit some job prospects. You can apply to have the 6-month stipulation waived but whether that's approved will depend on several things (having a permanent visa application lodged may help) Your partner will need to update her relationship status with Centrelink. There's something (I think it's form 24 or something like that) she can request to declare that she's still in financial hardship and it may mean her benefits continue at the same level. But if she doesn't update her relationship status, Immigration can and do cross-check other government departments. She can't say she's single with Centrelink but in a relationship with Immigration. There's no income test for sponsoring partner visas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 (edited) If I was in your shoes I would come on the WHV and do your 3 months regional work immediately on arrival. You're living a long distance relationship already anyway and hard as it may be, whats another 3 months long distance once you arrive? There may be job options that aren't as "manual" as you think nor as remote as you think that qualify for your regional work. For example I know someone that did their regional work 2 hours from Perth and spent the weekends in the city with friends. Of course NSW is different than WA and Perth isn't Sydney. With your 3 months out the way you then have the remaining 8 ish months of your WHV plus your second full year to use. During that time you can move in, get a job, get joint accounts, register your relationship etc etc and have loads of time to get to know each other and gather the significant evidence required for a partner visa without worrying about having to leave the country or leave your partner unsupported. The above would take the "hurry" out of the situation and allow you to chill out, enjoy the country, get closer to your partner and prepare the partner application at your leisure EDIT TO ADD: I would also strongly suggest making early contact with a registered migration agent. I have personal experience of stupid oversight/mistakes costing thousands of dollars more than the fee for an agent. Early contact would set you on the right road for gathering the correct evidence from day 1 and later support in submitting the application would maximise your chances of success. I know opinions vary on this but for me its less about the complexities of the visa application and more about having someone 'check your work' to make sure you dont make utterly stupid and avoidable mistakes that lead to refusal (again speaking from personal experience) Edited August 22, 2018 by MacGyver extra info 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 20 hours ago, Areyousure said: I couldn’t either, but they should introduce it, if they dnt have it already. Used to be an issue but they removed it a few years back. The sponsor used to have to earn over a certain amount, but now they don't ask for any proof of income at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 5 hours ago, Raul Senise said: As the children are Australian, it is not really relevant. So even though a Brit can't normally have dependents in oz while on a WHV, if those dependents are Australian then it doesn't matter and is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 3 hours ago, MacGyver said: If I was in your shoes I would come on the WHV and do your 3 months regional work immediately on arrival. You're living a long distance relationship already anyway and hard as it may be, whats another 3 months long distance once you arrive?.. With your 3 months out the way you then have the remaining 8 ish months of your WHV plus your second full year to use. During that time you can move in, get a job, get joint accounts, register your relationship etc etc and have loads of time to get to know each other and gather the significant evidence required for a partner visa without worrying about having to leave the country or leave your partner unsupported. Brilliant, by far the best strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Nemesis said: So even though a Brit can't normally have dependents in oz while on a WHV, if those dependents are Australian then it doesn't matter and is ok? Are they his dependants? He is not the father and I assume their father is contributing to their upbringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 19 hours ago, phil1990 said: Yeah, we'd live together for the entire 12 months- whereas if I had to do regional work that wouldn't be possible, or if I had to return to the UK that wouldn't be possible. I'm not sure why you keep going on about the benefits, that's my main concern on how to support her without them. Don't need to be reminded again that it's illegal, well aware! Yeah, that part should be fine, we've got hundreds of photos from the 2 weeks in July of us in various places, on day trips with her children and with her friends at social activities, loads of receipts for travelling, social events and hotels we stayed in together, loads of receipts for posting care-packages to eachother, birthday cards between eachother and to her children, logs of daily phone-calls, receipts for things I've bought for her household, logs of group chats together with her friends, logs of our messages showing emotional support to eachother, should have even more evidence in 5 weeks in October of real life stuff. I'm good friends with 3 of her close friends so they will happily provide statements, as will both of our mums. Will open a joint-account the day I land on the WHV as that seems the best route now and ensure that it clearly shows our two incomes going in, and rent, bills etc coming out, along with receipts of joint-purchases, presents for eachother, receipts for holidays/day trips and hopefully either the school or another relevant professional will be able to provide a statement showing the commitment to her children etc I'm more concerned about the logistics than that stuff. I don't think your receipts and photos will be relevant. They were simply obtained whilst you were on a two week holiday and not whilst you were in a defacto relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, Tulip1 said: Are they his dependants? He is not the father and I assume their father is contributing to their upbringing. He's said he's providing financial support already - so in some way there is some dependence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 19 hours ago, phil1990 said: Yeah, we'd live together for the entire 12 months- whereas if I had to do regional work that wouldn't be possible, or if I had to return to the UK that wouldn't be possible. I'm not sure why you keep going on about the benefits, that's my main concern on how to support her without them. Don't need to be reminded again that it's illegal, well aware! Yeah, that part should be fine, we've got hundreds of photos from the 2 weeks in July of us in various places, on day trips with her children and with her friends at social activities, loads of receipts for travelling, social events and hotels we stayed in together, loads of receipts for posting care-packages to eachother, birthday cards between eachother and to her children, logs of daily phone-calls, receipts for things I've bought for her household, logs of group chats together with her friends, logs of our messages showing emotional support to eachother, should have even more evidence in 5 weeks in October of real life stuff. I'm good friends with 3 of her close friends so they will happily provide statements, as will both of our mums. Will open a joint-account the day I land on the WHV as that seems the best route now and ensure that it clearly shows our two incomes going in, and rent, bills etc coming out, along with receipts of joint-purchases, presents for eachother, receipts for holidays/day trips and hopefully either the school or another relevant professional will be able to provide a statement showing the commitment to her children etc I'm more concerned about the logistics than that stuff. How will the joint account show both incomes coming in when you've already stated she won't be able to get benefits and will have no income. With your concerns over the finance, can she not get a part time job to fit around her studies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, ali said: He's said he's providing financial support already - so in some way there is some dependence. Is that not choice though? He could change his mind and walk away and have no duty to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Tulip1 said: Is that not choice though? He could change his mind and walk away and have no duty to them. No idea .. that's why I was asking the question as with a WHV you can't be accompanied by dependants - trying to establish what is dependence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Just now, ali said: No idea .. that's why I was asking the question as with a WHV you can't be accompanied by dependants - trying to establish what is dependence. I would be very surprised if her children would be classed as his dependants. He is certainly not being accompanied by dependants as he has none and the kids in question are someone else's. He's met the lady online and has had a two week holiday with her and another holiday later this year. Legally he has no dependants and if he wants to help her out financially then that is no different than choosing to help a mate out. I don't know for sure either but I cannot see how any law could state he cannot have a WHV as he has dependants because he doesn't. Raul has also said it doesn't matter as the kids are Australian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tulip1 said: I would be very surprised if her children would be classed as his dependants. He is certainly not being accompanied by dependants as he has none and the kids in question are someone else's. He's met the lady online and has had a two week holiday with her and another holiday later this year. Legally he has no dependants and if he wants to help her out financially then that is no different than choosing to help a mate out. I don't know for sure either but I cannot see how any law could state he cannot have a WHV as he has dependants because he doesn't. Raul has also said it doesn't matter as the kids are Australian. Yes, I saw Rauls reply, but there were other responses. Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1990 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 22/08/2018 at 04:12, MaggieMay24 said: Too many posts to quote them all, but some additional input for what it's worth... Yes Raul is a registered migration agent and has a long history of posting valuable input to the forum so you'd be in good hands There may be several options (and Raul or any other migration agent is the best source of strategy advice) but WHV to 820/801 application may be the best option since it gives you time here on a visa with work rights to build up cohabiting evidence. You can register your relationship in NSW to waive the 12-month requirement in case your pre-move evidence is weak I *think* the WHV only kicks in when you land so even if it is approved now and you don't travel until later, you still have 12 months of valid visa when you arrive. You can only work for any employer for 6 months so that may limit some job prospects. You can apply to have the 6-month stipulation waived but whether that's approved will depend on several things (having a permanent visa application lodged may help) Your partner will need to update her relationship status with Centrelink. There's something (I think it's form 24 or something like that) she can request to declare that she's still in financial hardship and it may mean her benefits continue at the same level. But if she doesn't update her relationship status, Immigration can and do cross-check other government departments. She can't say she's single with Centrelink but in a relationship with Immigration. There's no income test for sponsoring partner visas. 1 On 22/08/2018 at 05:46, MacGyver said: If I was in your shoes I would come on the WHV and do your 3 months regional work immediately on arrival. You're living a long distance relationship already anyway and hard as it may be, whats another 3 months long distance once you arrive? There may be job options that aren't as "manual" as you think nor as remote as you think that qualify for your regional work. For example I know someone that did their regional work 2 hours from Perth and spent the weekends in the city with friends. Of course NSW is different than WA and Perth isn't Sydney. With your 3 months out the way you then have the remaining 8 ish months of your WHV plus your second full year to use. During that time you can move in, get a job, get joint accounts, register your relationship etc etc and have loads of time to get to know each other and gather the significant evidence required for a partner visa without worrying about having to leave the country or leave your partner unsupported. The above would take the "hurry" out of the situation and allow you to chill out, enjoy the country, get closer to your partner and prepare the partner application at your leisure EDIT TO ADD: I would also strongly suggest making early contact with a registered migration agent. I have personal experience of stupid oversight/mistakes costing thousands of dollars more than the fee for an agent. Early contact would set you on the right road for gathering the correct evidence from day 1 and later support in submitting the application would maximise your chances of success. I know opinions vary on this but for me its less about the complexities of the visa application and more about having someone 'check your work' to make sure you dont make utterly stupid and avoidable mistakes that lead to refusal (again speaking from personal experience) Yeah, I'm actually really considering this as a plan, I'm gonna do some more research into it to ensure that it's possible to find some of the qualifying work at that time of year (between December and March depending upon my affairs in the UK). Luckily I've found that the town in NSW she lives in doesn't count as "regional", however pretty much 20km in any direction from her house counts as "regional" so I might not even have to stay apart for those 3 months, and if I can last 3 months living with her and her 3 kids whilst also doing some really stressful work full-time at that time of year then I think we will last through anything! My only concern is getting a car whilst on a WHV. Thanks for the help as it's definitely useful info! I'll definitely be speaking to a Migration agent when I get back in November, or possibly in person in Sydney whilst there in October, before I apply for the WHV and tie up my affairs for December to March time. On 22/08/2018 at 10:12, Tulip1 said: I don't think your receipts and photos will be relevant. They were simply obtained whilst you were on a two week holiday and not whilst you were in a defacto relationship. My understanding is that they would be evidence to use for first registering our relationship and then as we have registered our relationship there is no requirement on the length of time just that it's a genuine relationship. I mean it's not too much of an issue, just a thought, all the evidence beginning from registration / start of WHV would be sufficient I would expect as I'm one of those people that keeps hold of everything meaningful / sentimental and takes millions of messages etc, normally that's a pain as I end up hoarding a lot of stuff and having millions of photos and things saved in my phone but I guess it's a positive for the visa stuff! On 22/08/2018 at 10:17, Tulip1 said: How will the joint account show both incomes coming in when you've already stated she won't be able to get benefits and will have no income. With your concerns over the finance, can she not get a part time job to fit around her studies? Yeah, she'll still qualify for certain benefits as an income at first, plus child support and once we're actually living together the plan is for her to work part-time. It's just not possible currently as she's studying for her law degree full time whilst obviously running a household of 3 kids with no real in-person support, she can barely keep up with certain units of her studies let alone work, the only real "free-time" she gets is one weekend a fortnight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1990 Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 Ugh, struggling with this quoting system, ignore the first quote from the last post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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