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Fisher1

Advice on end of tenancy charges

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Okay, so we decided to go to a rent tribunal. The problem is that you have to file under the appropriate category from a preset list. The categories for tenants include things like "rent rises" or "evict

ion notices". I cant find a category for ex-tenants who have settled up and are now being asked for more money. So we can't file. I cant get hold of the tenants advocate for advice (constantly engaged) and we are beginning to worry that if we dont pay up we'll be landed with legal fees should they sue and win.    We are thinking about paying the 900$ and immediately filing to recoup the money as "overpaid rent" - there is a category for that.

Comments/advice welcome!

 

Edited by Fisher1

103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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They're unlikely to sue you.  What they will do is take you to the Tribunal. There is a category for a landlord to request compensation from a tenant.  

Has the agent said anything about sueing?

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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No, but they have said that they have to represent their landlord, but are willing to discuss it with us. Their whole tone us njw totally conciliatory, but I  dont trust them.


103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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4 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

No, but they have said that they have to represent their landlord, but are willing to discuss it with us. Their whole tone us njw totally conciliatory, but I  dont trust them.

Since the agent is not a lawyer, then they are talking about representing the landlord at the Tribunal.  


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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So we dont even get to glare at the greedy woman at the tribunal?  How disappointing!

Thanks for the info. 

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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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No way should you pay anything over which you are not required to by a tribunal!  Make them do the running.  I would do nothing and wait for their next move.

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PR (100) planning to move to Perth by then end of 2019!

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On 12/09/2018 at 20:10, Jon the Hat said:

No way should you pay anything over which you are not required to by a tribunal!  Make them do the running.  I would do nothing and wait for their next move.

Thank you Jon. Thats what we decided and we now have a hearing date. The agency are desperately innefficient .. they have miscalculated the account (again) and have submitted thewrong date for the start of our lease ... even though it says the date on the tenancy agreement!    New information from our daughter this week is that we e can apparently report the agency to the NSW trading standards for behaving inappropriately ... bring it on!!!

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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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Common sense would say that the agent is at fault for negotiation without landlord agreement. 

The landlord is entitled  to ask for what was signed up for. The agent appears not to have looked at the lease properly. 

The agent should admit it messed up and suck up the consequences and make sure you and the landlord get a fair deal. If they lose out and have to settle the fair enough it was their fault. 

Wonder if this will actually happen though. They should have done this anyway. 

Edited by rammygirl
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So many wineries ......so little time :yes:

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16 minutes ago, rammygirl said:

Common sense would say that the agent is at fault for negotiation without landlord agreement. 

The landlord is untitled to ask for what was signed up for. The agent appears not to have looked at the lease properly. 

The agent should admit it messed up and suck up the consequences and make sure you and the landlord get a fair deal. If they lose out and have to settle the fair enough it was their fault. 

Wonder if this will actually happen though. They should have done this anyway. 

Yes I agree entirely. Although I really don't see why the landlord should be able to make an extra profit on something which has cost them nothing ... especially since they have had all the associated costs paid by us.

I was a private landlord for 12 years and would have been thanking my ex-tenants if they had done as much for me - not trying to screw a bit of extra profit out of them!

Edited by Fisher1
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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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I thought it was either the lease break penalty or the ad fees plus rent. If they want the lease break then they should pay back the other fees. 

I agree the landlord is being pig headed but maybe they have had enough of the agents incompetence too.

The agent is at fault and should sort it out so no one but them loses out.

we have been both tenants and landlords and have had excellent agents. When we have used a void to do maintenance we have not expected the tenant to pay as the property wasn’t leasable for that time. Fair play.

Edited by rammygirl
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So many wineries ......so little time :yes:

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Re-reading your posts; did you actually break the lease?

From the OP, it looks like you merely informed the agent that you would not be renewing at the end of the lease and said if they found someone you would be agreeable to them breaking the lease. If this was the case you shouldn't actually be liable for the agents fees either.

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34 minutes ago, welljock said:

Re-reading your posts; did you actually break the lease?

From the OP, it looks like you merely informed the agent that you would not be renewing at the end of the lease and said if they found someone you would be agreeable to them breaking the lease. If this was the case you shouldn't actually be liable for the agents fees either.

Thanks Welljock, got it in one. We thought it was fair to pay the associated costs because then it was mutually beneficial. This is why we are so furious - i used to hate it when a tenant moved out because you never quite knew how long it would take to find a new tenant ... we never gave notice of our intention to leave.

 

3 hours ago, rammygirl said:

I thought it was either the lease break penalty or the ad fees plus rent. If they want the lease break then they should pay back the other fees. 

I agree the landlord is being pig headed but maybe they have had enough of the agents incompetence too.

The agent is at fault and should sort it out so no one but them loses out.

we have been both tenants and landlords and have had excellent agents. When we have used a void to do maintenance we have not expected the tenant to pay as the property wasn’t leasable for that time. Fair play.

To be  fair the agent is billing us for the lbf minus the costs we have already paid.

Edited by Fisher1

103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

Thanks Welljock, got it in one. We thought it was fair to pay the associated costs because then it was mutually beneficial. This is why we are so furious - i used to hate it when a tenant moved out because you never quite knew how long it would take to find a new tenant ... we never gave notice of our intention to leave.

 

To be  fair the agent is billing us for the lbf minus the costs we have already paid.

In which case you should now be telling them, as they terminated the lease you will not be paying the fees and you will be looking for the tribunal fee from them too, even if it's just to get them to drop the lbf.  

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On 14/09/2018 at 16:23, welljock said:

In which case you should now be telling them, as they terminated the lease you will not be paying the fees and you will be looking for the tribunal fee from them too, even if it's just to get them to drop the lbf.  

Brilliant ?

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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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On 17/09/2018 at 16:54, Fisher1 said:

Brilliant ?

Okay, so we went to the conciliation hearing and the chairwoman / arbiter, on hearing that we had already paid costs in full and that the landlord had a tenant move in the day after we moved out, told the agent to ring the landlird and suggest they might want to have a rethink. Apparently if you accept costs you cant (in her view) then ask for the 4 week lease break fee, even if you refund the costs already paid. There is also apparently a precedent from another case which allows a NSW  tribunal discetion in their award ... the 4 week fee need not be mandatory.  The landlord was duly telephoned and insisted on going to a tribunal.

I now have till October 30 to send in any evidence I rely on at the tribunal (date to be decided).  

My question is this - as I am writing  a timeline of events to submit with copies of emails, would it be worth writing it as an affidavit or is a simple written  statement ... any ideas? 

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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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Hope it goes in your favour. Sorry can’t help with your question. 

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3 hours ago, ramot said:

Hope it goes in your favour. Sorry can’t help with your question. 

Thanks Ramot.  We've actually already written the money off, seemed the most sensible attitude to take - but we'll be dammed if we just hand it over.  I want them to have to make an effort to get it!  

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103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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On 12/10/2018 at 16:03, Fisher1 said:

Okay, so we went to the conciliation hearing and the chairwoman / arbiter, on hearing that we had already paid costs in full and that the landlord had a tenant move in the day after we moved out, told the agent to ring the landlird and suggest they might want to have a rethink. Apparently if you accept costs you cant (in her view) then ask for the 4 week lease break fee, even if you refund the costs already paid. There is also apparently a precedent from another case which allows a NSW  tribunal discetion in their award ... the 4 week fee need not be mandatory.  The landlord was duly telephoned and insisted on going to a tribunal.

I now have till October 30 to send in any evidence I rely on at the tribunal (date to be decided).  

My question is this - as I am writing  a timeline of events to submit with copies of emails, would it be worth writing it as an affidavit or is a simple written  statement ... any ideas? 

I'm no lawyer but I would be making clear you only intimated that you were not renewing the lease and as a gesture of goodwill offered to pay the advertising costs which you now wish to withdraw. Also make clear you offered to leave early if that suited them better and in fact it was them that ended the lease early as they had found a new tenant.

Good luck, hope you get it all back.

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1 hour ago, welljock said:

I'm no lawyer but I would be making clear you only intimated that you were not renewing the lease and as a gesture of goodwill offered to pay the advertising costs which you now wish to withdraw. Also make clear you offered to leave early if that suited them better and in fact it was them that ended the lease early as they had found a new tenant.

Good luck, hope you get it all back.

Thanks Welljock. We arent actually trying to get any money back ... it was all settled until, two weeks or so after settlement the agency approached us saying that the landlord had "opted to impose the 4 week lease break fee" and that we therefore owed them $,900! We refused to pay and they are taking us yo a tribunal!!! Greedy b******s

 

Edited by Fisher1

103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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13 hours ago, Fisher1 said:

Thanks Welljock. We arent actually trying to get any money back ... it was all settled until, two weeks or so after settlement the agency approached us saying that the landlord had "opted to impose the 4 week lease break fee" and that we therefore owed them $,900! We refused to pay and they are taking us yo a tribunal!!! Greedy b******s

 

I know your not but at the moment they are sitting in the position of 'nothing to lose'; putting them in the position that they MAY have to pay back the advertising costs may cause a rethink.

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1 hour ago, welljock said:

I know your not but at the moment they are sitting in the position of 'nothing to lose'; putting them in the position that they MAY have to pay back the advertising costs may cause a rethink.

We'll see. I think we may win, it all depends on the view taken by the tribunal. That would be great because the landlord will have incurred costs - paying the  agency to represent them for a start. We are realists however ... 


103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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1 hour ago, Fisher1 said:

We'll see. I think we may win, it all depends on the view taken by the tribunal. That would be great because the landlord will have incurred costs - paying the  agency to represent them for a start. We are realists however ... 

I used to have a unit and had to get the agent to represent me at a hearing (the tenants had spilled something nameless on the carpet and I didn't know till they moved out, because they'd put a big piece of furniture over it).  It only cost me $50.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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1 hour ago, Marisawright said:

I used to have a unit and had to get the agent to represent me at a hearing (the tenants had spilled something nameless on the carpet and I didn't know till they moved out, because they'd put a big piece of furniture over it).  It only cost me $50.

Thats the cost of applying to the tribunal - I was hoping they'd have to pay for the agent's time as well 🙂


103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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40 minutes ago, Fisher1 said:

Thats the cost of applying to the tribunal - I was hoping they'd have to pay for the agent's time as well 🙂

Yes, I think the tribunal was cheaper when I did it. $50 was what I paid the agent.


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 16/10/2018 at 15:53, Marisawright said:

Yes, I think the tribunal was cheaper when I did it. $50 was what I paid the agent.

Sometimes I wish I'd just paid up, but then I think about other tenants who maybe couldnt afford - having been led nicely 


103 visa application lodged February 2013. 143 visa application submitted January 2016. Police checks and form 80 submitted February 29th 2016. Visa granted April 4th 2016.

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