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C-Dawg

I want to move back to the UK, fiance doesn't

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I've lived in Australia nearly 3 years now. Moved over with my dual citizen boyfriend. 
We got engaged not that long ago and it dawned on me that as my fiance wants to be in Melbourne forever, I'll be stuck here too. He has family and old childhood friends here, great job. I had nothing when I first moved but I've been making a huge effort to be happy here, I've found work and got a few friends around. I was determined to make it work and be happy.

But I've realised recently that I don't want to be here long term and I've been pretty miserable for the last year, to the point where I am going to receive input from a psychologist. I dream about home every night and I really feel like that's where I need to be for the rest of my life. I want to be able to see my family more often and for my children to know their family too. I don't feel like I fully fit in in Australia and feel out of place. But mainly, I've realised the most important thing to me in life in the people and I'm not as bothered about weather and lifestyle as I originally thought.

My fiance understands this but he's not willing to move with me at this stage, because he thinks I'll be miserable there as well and he simply doesn't want to move back to the UK. Our plan is for me to move back and start a new life alone, and then he will decide if wants to come and join in the life I make. 

I don't know if I'm about to make the biggest mistake ever by moving back without him but I also think I could be miserable and trapped here if we get married and stay here. If we have babies my feelings of missing family around are only going to get stronger. I'm going to risk losing him which will be awful in the short term but I think it will be worth it in the end. I'm 27 so I hope I'm not too old to start again. I also wonder why I would sacrifice everything I want for a man who wouldn't do the same for me. And maybe there is no happy medium, no matter how much we care for each other, we can't be happy as one of us will always feel we are meant to be in a different place.

Has anyone been in this situation and broken up with their partners based on differing opinions on where you want to live and raise your children? Did you regret moving back alone? Did you learn you had rose tinted spectacles or that the grass is greener? 

Any advice appreciated!

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31 minutes ago, C-Dawg said:

I've lived in Australia nearly 3 years now. Moved over with my dual citizen boyfriend. 
We got engaged not that long ago and it dawned on me that as my fiance wants to be in Melbourne forever, I'll be stuck here too. He has family and old childhood friends here, great job. I had nothing when I first moved but I've been making a huge effort to be happy here, I've found work and got a few friends around. I was determined to make it work and be happy.

But I've realised recently that I don't want to be here long term and I've been pretty miserable for the last year, to the point where I am going to receive input from a psychologist. I dream about home every night and I really feel like that's where I need to be for the rest of my life. I want to be able to see my family more often and for my children to know their family too. I don't feel like I fully fit in in Australia and feel out of place. But mainly, I've realised the most important thing to me in life in the people and I'm not as bothered about weather and lifestyle as I originally thought.

My fiance understands this but he's not willing to move with me at this stage, because he thinks I'll be miserable there as well and he simply doesn't want to move back to the UK. Our plan is for me to move back and start a new life alone, and then he will decide if wants to come and join in the life I make. 

I don't know if I'm about to make the biggest mistake ever by moving back without him but I also think I could be miserable and trapped here if we get married and stay here. If we have babies my feelings of missing family around are only going to get stronger. I'm going to risk losing him which will be awful in the short term but I think it will be worth it in the end. I'm 27 so I hope I'm not too old to start again. I also wonder why I would sacrifice everything I want for a man who wouldn't do the same for me. And maybe there is no happy medium, no matter how much we care for each other, we can't be happy as one of us will always feel we are meant to be in a different place.

Has anyone been in this situation and broken up with their partners based on differing opinions on where you want to live and raise your children? Did you regret moving back alone? Did you learn you had rose tinted spectacles or that the grass is greener? 

Any advice appreciated!

I think you have already made up your mind.  It's never easy at all when you're homesick and miserable and especially as you say your partner isn't willing to move back at this stage with you.  Perhaps if you do move back yourself - absence will make the heart grow fonder and he will decide to return to the UK too.

Good luck!

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Been in your situation, yes, broken up no. I was a slow learner and in the beginning, like my husband (an Aussie, now dual citizen) I thought it was just another adventure and that we would be moving on somewhere else when that one was finished. But the next opportunity and the next kept us in Australia and we had kids so stability was important there for a while. We lived in a place which belonged to neither of us though and IMHO that made it much easier albeit isolating for our kids which neither minded at the time as we made and had visits but both now say they regret to some degree.

By the time we came to talk retirement plans, clang, the jail gates came down and I realised too late I was trapped. By that time I’d had him for nearly 40 years and wasn’t about to train up a new one so I stayed - my rationale was that he was more important than the place I was living so I took the least worst option - Australia  with him. But we had compromises, he didn’t get his plans for living in the bush and I didn’t get my plans for living in UK for 6 months a year but he kept working so I could go back whenever I wanted. 

As it happens, we came to U.K. for our son’s wedding and my DH who had said he could never live in England again, took one look at my aged parents and said “we can’t leave them here with no support” so we just didn’t go back to Aus from the holiday and it’s been almost 7 years! I’m ready to move on again, the challenge of caring for a nonagenarian dad is almost killing me but we have to stick it out. It’s generally been good though and my DH often remarks that it’s been fabulous to get his wife back again (I am “me” here and 50kg lighter!) and he has really enjoyed Britain.

I guess what I would say is that you aren’t in the least unusual and the big decision you have to make is “is this the man you want to have kids and grow old with?” If the answer is yes then you make the decision to sacrifice yourself for the rest of your days. If, as you say, you are only 27, there are plenty more fish, you might find someone fabulous who will be happy to live their life alongside you.

Living your life with exogenous depression is quite possible but not very comfortable (I knew all about it in theory and sort of poo-poohed it, being a strong pragmatic woman, until I got it, then I felt how horrible it really was). Your psychologist, if they are worth their salt, can teach you all sorts of tips and tricks to help you through each and every day but they probably won’t fix the underlying problem that you’re living in the wrong place.

Personally I think your decision to go back and see how it feels is a good one. It’s a risk, to be sure, he might decide that there are plenty more fish out there too (blokes seem to be more inclined to do that) but at the very least it will help you clarify your least worst option - Aus with him or U.K. without him. One of my mantras to help me through each and every ghastly day was “you can’t cuddle a country”. 

Good luck and look after yourself because you are the only one who can do that.

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1 hour ago, Quoll said:

Living your life with exogenous depression is quite possible but not very comfortable (I knew all about it in theory and sort of poo-poohed it, being a strong pragmatic woman, until I got it, then I felt how horrible it really was). Your psychologist, if they are worth their salt, can teach you all sorts of tips and tricks to help you through each and every day but they probably won’t fix the underlying problem that you’re living in the wrong place.

Personally I think your decision to go back and see how it feels is a good one. It’s a risk, to be sure, he might decide that there are plenty more fish out there too (blokes seem to be more inclined to do that) but at the very least it will help you clarify your least worst option - Aus with him or U.K. without him. One of my mantras to help me through each and every ghastly day was “you can’t cuddle a country”. 

Good luck and look after yourself because you are the only one who can do that.

What Quoll said. 

I have always maintained that if a couple from different countries and one or both of you living outside your own, you have to love where you live. If not love it, at least like it a great deal and be able to make friends, build a life there and be happy living it. If you honestly don't like it, then chances are its not going to work long term. Also if the pull of family and so on is digging on you now, it isn't going to go away magically or even with counselling or therapy. 

I could ramble on about your situation, how to cope and deal with the long term in Aus, but the reality is, if you are struggling now, before marriage and kids, the chances are its only going to get worse once those things happen. And then you really are stuck if your husband doesn't want to budge in the slightest. 

You are young, 27 is not old. I met my now husband when I was 31 and we married when I was 35, I had a baby at 37. I broke up with my long term partner (had been living overseas in a European country for quite a lot of years in my 20's) when I was 27. I returned to the UK a year or so later for personal reasons (not for family or homesickness). However, I did miss the country, the place I had lived all those years a great deal but realised life moves on and not always quite how you had thought it might pan out. To this day I still have a hankering to live back there (over the UK or anywhere else tbh) but its not the place I left and I could never recreate what I had there. It had its time and place and I am thankful I got to experience it all when I did. 

I'd stick with going back on your own, seeing how you go and being open to the possibility that you are happier there with or without your partner than you are in Aus with him. 

 

 

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I agree with the others- sounds like you need to return at least for a while and see what happens .  I think it is a good idea to go sooner rather than later when there might be kids on the horizon which would complicate things no end!

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I think you should go back. The longer you leave it the less likely you'll go and one day many years from now you will be stuck in a place you know in your heart isn't right with a bunch of kids and it will be near impossible to go.  One thing I would say though is whilst he says he may one day join you it's really important you go thinking this is a new start for you. If you don't you'll live each day hoping for that miracle call from him saying I'm coming. You need to go with a view of starting a new, happy life and embrace it. If it's to be with your partner then it will but please don't live your life around that hope. He's prepared to let you go and he remain where he's happy. There's nothing wrong with that and he has the same right to choices as you do but just bare in mind he's fully prepared to lose you with that's what it takes. 

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@C-Dawg I’m so sorry to hear of your predicament, how hard it must be for you. Rather than end your relationship why not suggest a 3 month break. During this time it will give you both the time apart to consider how you feel about each other. You may decide you are strong enough to continue your new life without him or you both may realise just how much you love each other.

Whichever path you choose I wish you all the best for the future. You deserve to be happy.

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If you are depressed you are living in the past. If you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace you are living in the present.

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I agree with everyone else, and to be honest I think you know it is the right thing to do.  I was unhappy in Australia in the end (we were there for almost nine years, I was unhappy for three or so), but put a smile on and stuck it out because my family were happy enough to stay.  Unfortunately it affected my mental health to such an extent that I am still suffering the horrendous consequences, and I truly wish I'd felt able to speak up and put myself first sooner.  Things are improving, but it has been the most awful time.

The trouble is, once you start having children you enter dangerous ground, and may end up completely stuck against your wishes if your partner won't let the children go.  Even if you go for a little while, just so that you can put some distance between you and Australia in order to work out how you feel, you can always go back if you choose.  Or it might give you new opportunities that you might not have had.

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10 hours ago, C-Dawg said:

I've lived in Australia nearly 3 years now. Moved over with my dual citizen boyfriend. 
We got engaged not that long ago and it dawned on me that as my fiance wants to be in Melbourne forever, I'll be stuck here too. He has family and old childhood friends here, great job. I had nothing when I first moved but I've been making a huge effort to be happy here, I've found work and got a few friends around. I was determined to make it work and be happy.

But I've realised recently that I don't want to be here long term and I've been pretty miserable for the last year, to the point where I am going to receive input from a psychologist. I dream about home every night and I really feel like that's where I need to be for the rest of my life. I want to be able to see my family more often and for my children to know their family too. I don't feel like I fully fit in in Australia and feel out of place. But mainly, I've realised the most important thing to me in life in the people and I'm not as bothered about weather and lifestyle as I originally thought.

My fiance understands this but he's not willing to move with me at this stage, because he thinks I'll be miserable there as well and he simply doesn't want to move back to the UK. Our plan is for me to move back and start a new life alone, and then he will decide if wants to come and join in the life I make. 

I don't know if I'm about to make the biggest mistake ever by moving back without him but I also think I could be miserable and trapped here if we get married and stay here. If we have babies my feelings of missing family around are only going to get stronger. I'm going to risk losing him which will be awful in the short term but I think it will be worth it in the end. I'm 27 so I hope I'm not too old to start again. I also wonder why I would sacrifice everything I want for a man who wouldn't do the same for me. And maybe there is no happy medium, no matter how much we care for each other, we can't be happy as one of us will always feel we are meant to be in a different place.

Has anyone been in this situation and broken up with their partners based on differing opinions on where you want to live and raise your children? Did you regret moving back alone? Did you learn you had rose tinted spectacles or that the grass is greener? 

Any advice appreciated!

That's a tough one, speaking for I and my wife we had a good life in mostly rural WA but had and have family in the UK so after some marital problems, we decided to make a change and came to the UK some 10 years ago and were quite delighted by the opportunities presented here. However the decision made by this country 2 years ago ruined all of that for us and gave a jolt that made us realise that home really is in Australia and better now than later.

However the point is the grass is not necessarily greener wherever you go if you have problems they will inevitably follow you, as a species we are always looking for a better horizon but often there just isn't one. 

I suspect that you will come here and after a settling in time when the novelty of having you around has worn off for family and friends you will realise that you were just possibly at least a  bit better of in Australia. The UK really is more expensive to live in, the weather is lets face it often pretty horrible and in general as a worker your rights are better in Australia. The rich poor divide in the UK is now quite startling.

Right now is the best time of year in the UK but as you would know really it's 7 months of winter 2.5 of summer and the rest is a basically a bit dodgy.

Do come back and see for yourself though that is quite possibly the only way but maybe don't burn your bridges in Australia get your citizenship at least and for heavens sake don't become a ping ponger....

All the very best

 

Dave

 

 

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1 hour ago, Davo453 said:

That's a tough one, speaking for I and my wife we had a good life in mostly rural WA but had and have family in the UK so after some marital problems, we decided to make a change and came to the UK some 10 years ago and were quite delighted by the opportunities presented here. However the decision made by this country 2 years ago ruined all of that for us and gave a jolt that made us realise that home really is in Australia and better now than later.

However the point is the grass is not necessarily greener wherever you go if you have problems they will inevitably follow you, as a species we are always looking for a better horizon but often there just isn't one. 

I suspect that you will come here and after a settling in time when the novelty of having you around has worn off for family and friends you will realise that you were just possibly at least a  bit better of in Australia. The UK really is more expensive to live in, the weather is lets face it often pretty horrible and in general as a worker your rights are better in Australia. The rich poor divide in the UK is now quite startling.

Right now is the best time of year in the UK but as you would know really it's 7 months of winter 2.5 of summer and the rest is a basically a bit dodgy.

Do come back and see for yourself though that is quite possibly the only way but maybe don't burn your bridges in Australia get your citizenship at least and for heavens sake don't become a ping ponger....

All the very best

 

Dave

 

 

In what way are workers rights better in Oz than the uk? Just curious because I honestly do not know but two things have recently come to my attention when speaking to people. Here, a women can have, and often does a years maternity leave. On top of that they are entitled to their actual holiday in that time and bank holidays as in essence they are still employed there. This means that many are actually off work for about 14 months. I've been told there's nothing anywhere close to that in Oz and many women are back at work within months. The other thing I found out is the average Oz worker gets 20 days holiday plus bank holidays. Most get far more here and whilst I know different jobs/places have different amounts it's never that low. I get almost six weeks plus bank holidays and that's not unique. Whilst I don't know of all the other things that you say are better if still think the two things I've mentioned are certainly not,  so just curious. I assume the thing you mentioned that ruined all the opportunities for you is brexit. I guess if you planned to work and live across Europe then I get what you say. That aside, it seems nobody really knows yet what the effect will be but travel and work in Europe won't end, it will just be subject to visas like so many places are. Neither will other nationalities coming here end, again just with a visa. For what it's worth, I was/still am a very strong remain and not happy with the outcome but life goes on. 

Edited by Tulip1
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25 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

In what way are workers rights better in Oz than the uk? Just curious because I honestly do not know but two things have recently come to my attention when speaking to people. Here, a women can have, and often does a years maternity leave. On top of that they are entitled to their actual holiday in that time and bank holidays as in essence they are still employed there. This means that many are actually off work for about 14 months. I've been told there's nothing anywhere close to that in Oz and many women are back at work within months. The other thing I found out is the average Oz worker gets 20 days holiday plus bank holidays. Most get far more here and whilst I know different jobs/places have different amounts it's never that low. I get almost six weeks plus bank holidays and that's not unique. Whilst I don't know of all the other things that you say are better if still think the two things I've mention are certainly not so just curious. I assume the thing you mentioned that ruined all the opportunities for you is brexit. I guess if you planned to work and live across Europe then I get what you say. That aside, it seems nobody really knows yet what the effect will be but travel and work in Europe won't end, it will just be subject to visas like so many places are. Neither will other nationalities coming here end, again just with a visa. For what it's worth, I was/still am a very strong remain and not happy with the outcome but life goes on. 

Have to admit that maternity leave is so much better in the UK and basically no existent in Australia, given that the person making the original post is quite possibly of an age where they  might be affected by that it is most certainly worth considering it is all about perspective.

However penalty rates are still largely in place in Australia but pretty much none existent in the UK. My wife worked for an agency at the weekends when she asked for a little more for the unsociable hours she was told that "it would not be fair to those who worked in the week" but the workers in the week didn't want to work at the weekend, anyway because of that she left.

Although penalty rates are now under threat particularly in the hospitality industry in Australia the unions will protect them in other industries such as nursing tooth and nail.

We had anticipated moving to Spain and working there for a few years and we were well on the way to learning the language, I suppose we still could go but the doubt surrounding that move has removed all of our enthusiasm.

Obviously life does go and the best will be made of a possibly bad situation but for us it will not go on in the UK, I am not of an age where I have time to wait any length of time for a recovery I have already closed my business and am preparing to move.

The original poster's priorities are emotional and not financial so must they must do what makes them happy, a tricky maneuver for all of us at various times of our lives. 

Edited by Davo453
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12 minutes ago, Davo453 said:

Have to admit that maternity leave is so much better in the UK and basically no existent in Australia, given that the person making the original post is quite possibly of an age where they  might be affected by that it is most certainly worth considering it is all about perspective.

However penalty rates are still largely in place in Australia but pretty much none existent in the UK. My wife worked for an agency at the weekends when she asked for a little more for the unsociable hours she was told that "it would not be fair to those who worked in the week" but the workers in the week didn't want to work at the weekend, anyway because of that she left.

Although penalty rates are now under threat particularly in the hospitality industry in Australia the unions will protect them in other industries such as nursing tooth and nail.

We had anticipated moving to Spain and working there for a few years and I we were well on the way to learning the language, I suppose we still could go but the doubt surrounding that move has removed all of our enthusiasm.

Obviously life does go and the best will be made of a possibly bad situation but for us it will not go on in the UK, I am not of an age where I have time to wait any length of time for a recovery I have already closed my business and am preparing to move.

The original poster's priorities are emotional and not financial so must they must do what makes them happy, a tricky maneuver for all of us at various times of our lives. 

Thank you for your quick reply. I see what you mean about moving to Spain and I think many have those worries. There's lots of talk about still being able to do that and that may well be true given that the countries are somewhat struggling and retirees in their thousands going out there with money, buying properties and cars and spending their income are appealing to them.  Still, like you say,  you can't sit around waiting for confirmation of that as no one really knows. At least you don't need to worry about speaking a different language now, enjoy your new adventure. 

Edited by Tulip1

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7 hours ago, Davo453 said:

That's a tough one, speaking for I and my wife we had a good life in mostly rural WA but had and have family in the UK so after some marital problems, we decided to make a change and came to the UK some 10 years ago and were quite delighted by the opportunities presented here. However the decision made by this country 2 years ago ruined all of that for us and gave a jolt that made us realise that home really is in Australia and better now than later

Good to hear you worked out where you wanted to be, but I don't think it's relevant to the OP.   She's not making decisions based on economics, she's basing it on how she feels.  

You can have all the financial success in the world, but if you don't feel at home in your own skin, you're not going to be happy.   Some people can settle anywhere, one country feels the same as another to them - but that's far from the case for everyone.

For some people, one country will feel like "home" and another country never will.  It's not necessarily about being close to family, either.   If you're one of those people, no amount of logic will ever help you feel "settled" - the best you can hope for is "resigned".

Unfortunately, people who don't have that attachment to country can't understand it.  Hence you get the unsympathetic husband or wife who simply can't comprehend why their partner is so desperately unhappy for no apparent reason.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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People are more important than countries.

You can't cuddle up to a country at night in bed.

If you are in love and want to marry, then I wouldn't throw that away.


I want it all, and I want it now.

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3 minutes ago, Parley said:

People are more important than countries.

You can't cuddle up to a country at night in bed.

If you are in love and want to marry, then I wouldn't throw that away.

I’m with Parley on this one.  I also think though that if you are in a relationship with someone from another country both parties have to accept that they will need to spend significant amounts of time living in the other person’s country.  How you devide that time up depends on your circumstances but for either person to expect to spend the rest of their lives in their home country is unfair to the other.

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Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain but it takes character and self control to be understanding and forgiving.

Dale Carnegie – 1888-1955, Author and Lecturer

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6 hours ago, Davo453 said:

We had anticipated moving to Spain and working there for a few years and we were well on the way to learning the language, I suppose we still could go but the doubt surrounding that move has removed all of our enthusiasm.

Worth noting that Brexit should have no impact on your ability to live in Spain, especially if you move and establish residency before Brexit happens.

Americans, Australians and other nationalities move to Spain all the time.  It's a slightly more difficult process than moving as an EU citizen, but it's much easier than migrating to Australia.  If you are already resident in Spain, with an established home and adequate finances, it's even more achievable.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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4 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Worth noting that Brexit should have no impact on your ability to live in Spain, especially if you move and establish residency before Brexit happens.

Americans, Australians and other nationalities move to Spain all the time.  It's a slightly more difficult process than moving as an EU citizen, but it's much easier than migrating to Australia.  If you are already resident in Spain, with an established home and adequate finances, it's even more achievable.

Loads of people from the UK went to live in Spain or retired there long before joining the EEC in 1973.  Also don't think it will be difficult to do so in the future.  As you say, far easier to do than migrating to Australia.

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Thanks so much for all the advice so far! It's good to hear other people's stories as well. 

Just in terms of those saying about the opportunities being worse over in the UK... I work in a profession which is incredibly competitive in Aus and I currently have 3 jobs - one part time and two casual, just to make ends meet. None of these jobs are permanent and I've had to work so hard to get them. Back in the UK I will be far more likely to get a full time permanent position and maternity leave. It's much less competitive there. I do get paid more in Aus but the stability in my profession is just not there. 

So even practically and career-wise, it makes sense to move back. 
I was also upset by Brexit and I know the rich/poor divide is pretty bad but every country has it's negatives and I don't think Brexit is enough of a reason not to go back.

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I’m sure you and your fiancé love each other but if you are even considering moving back to UK without your fiancé I think it probably means you don’t love him enough to be getting married. If he is even considering letting you go back alone I think it probably means he doesn’t love you enough to be getting married either. I know what it’s like to be homesick in the past but even in the darkest of times there was no way my ozzie husband or me would even have considered not staying together whether we lived in UK or Oz. It’s best you found this out now so both of you can move on. Good luck.

 

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12 hours ago, NicF said:

I’m with Parley on this one.  I also think though that if you are in a relationship with someone from another country both parties have to accept that they will need to spend significant amounts of time living in the other person’s country.  How you devide that time up depends on your circumstances but for either person to expect to spend the rest of their lives in their home country is unfair to the other.

That would be great in an ideal world but for most life's not like that. It's not easy to move from one country to the other every few years or so. Visas, homes, jobs, kids get in the way. I agree to an extent what Parley says about people being more important but for some it's not enough. I think resentment can kick in and that could one day turn to hatred. The OP says he's got a great job, family, friends etc and she hasn't.  That may eat away at her, she has to do what her heart tells her to. Maybe the relationship isn't as good as it could be, after all both are prepared to separate rather than stay together at any cost. 

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13 hours ago, Parley said:

People are more important than countries.

You can't cuddle up to a country at night in bed.

If you are in love and want to marry, then I wouldn't throw that away.

Yup, the fiancé certainly should return with her ?

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14 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Worth noting that Brexit should have no impact on your ability to live in Spain, especially if you move and establish residency before Brexit happens.

Americans, Australians and other nationalities move to Spain all the time.  It's a slightly more difficult process than moving as an EU citizen, but it's much easier than migrating to Australia.  If you are already resident in Spain, with an established home and adequate finances, it's even more achievable.

But you won't get automatic right to live there, there might be visas but that will be at the behest of the Spanish govt and there will be no reciprocal social rights like health care or freedom to move around in the EU or receive health care in the rest of the EU, the uK will not have to index pensions, they will be able to do the same as they have with pensioners in Australia, it is unclear whether there will be reciprocal tax agreements, for younger people it is still unclear whether their children will get free schooling, probably not.

The Americans who live in the EU have to be self funding and are dependent on visas.

I agree if you do it before brexit happens then you have some safeguards but you will have to stay in the country you choose until you qualify for citizenship and you will always be concerned about pension indexing and if you are younger you will have to build up a pension in the country you live in.

Edited by BacktoDemocracy
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7 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

But you won't get automatic right to live there, there might be visas but that will be at the behest of the Spanish govt and there will be no reciprocal social rights like health care or freedom to move around in the EU or receive health care in the rest of the EU, the uK will not have to index pensions, they will be able to do the same as they have with pensioners in Australia, it is unclear whether there will be reciprocal tax agreements, for younger people it is still unclear whether their children will get free schooling, probably not.

The Americans who live in the EU have to be self funding and are dependent on visas.

I agree if you do it before brexit happens then you have some safeguards but you will have to stay in the country you choose until you qualify for citizenship and you will always be concerned about pension indexing and if you are younger you will have to build up a pension in the country you live in.

I'm not in favour of Brexit, but this all sounds like propaganda to me.  Yes you are "dependent on a visa" but you were dependent on a visa when you emigrated to Australia too. Were you feeling insecure or quaking in your boots before you got your Australian citizenship? 

Yes, if you can't find a job in Spain, there is a financial requirement for the non-lucrative visa - the same as when you apply for a spouse visa for the UK.  But when I looked into it, you basically have to satisfy the requirement when you apply - it's not like they come and check on you every year to make sure you still have the money. You have to show an income but it's not a huge amount.

For questions like, will there be reciprocal tax arrangements or medical arrangements, it seems you are assuming the deal offered to Brits will be worse than the deal currently offered to the rest of the world for pensions.  When we looked into it, Australia was almost the only country in the world where I couldn't collect my British pension in full.

http://www.solicitorsinspain.com/articles/moving-spain-after-brexit

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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24 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I'm not in favour of Brexit, but this all sounds like propaganda to me.  Yes you are "dependent on a visa" but you were dependent on a visa when you emigrated to Australia too. Were you feeling insecure or quaking in your boots before you got your Australian citizenship? 

Yes, if you can't find a job in Spain, there is a financial requirement for the non-lucrative visa - the same as when you apply for a spouse visa for the UK.  But when I looked into it, you basically have to satisfy the requirement when you apply - it's not like they come and check on you every year to make sure you still have the money. You have to show an income but it's not a huge amount.

For questions like, will there be reciprocal tax arrangements or medical arrangements, it seems you are assuming the deal offered to Brits will be worse than the deal currently offered to the rest of the world for pensions.  When we looked into it, Australia was almost the only country in the world where I couldn't collect my British pension in full.

http://www.solicitorsinspain.com/articles/moving-spain-after-brexit

According to a list There are about 150 countries where your UK state pension is frozen. To emphasise how illogical it seem, the pension is frozen in Canada but index linked in America.

If you are on a PR visa then you probably don’t feel insecure, but many of us living here on temporary visas, even long term ones like us do have slight concerns as the government has been known to change things unexpectedly and retrospectively.

Edited by ramot

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Don't worry about being too old to start again. I broke up from a long term partner when I was 31 and living overseas in his native European country. Went back to the UK and met a fabulous English guy when I was 32, got married and had our first child when I was 38. We're now both living in Australia.  Was the best decision I ever made

 

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