UK economy slowing.

[newjez]

13 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

like Germany you mean .....you couldn't make it up .

We would be doing much better than Germany without the Russians brexit brake.

[BacktoDemocracy]

12 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

not good enough .,poor evasive answer

why the rise of nationalism across Europe ?

The rise of nationalism and authoritarianism is due to self serving individuals seeking power on the back of populist policies and prejudice exploitation,  individuals whose only objective is personal power and wealth.

End of. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by BacktoDemocracy

[starlight7]

32 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

The rise of nationalism and authoritarianism is due to self serving individuals seeking power on the back of populist policies and prejudice exploitation,  individuals whose only objective is personal power and wealth.

End of. 

'Twas ever thus, since the world began.Not much altruism around.

[bunbury61]

5 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

The rise of nationalism and authoritarianism is due to self serving individuals seeking power on the back of populist policies and prejudice exploitation,  individuals whose only objective is personal power and wealth.

End of. 

the e.u to a tee ....unelected , greedy , undemocratic , self serving ,and arrogant using the populace as cheap flexible labour moving between non existent borders , with no rights , no terms and no conditions .

scraping a living on an increasing zero hours , minimum wage existence .

 

whilst being told they are living in a free , democratic society ,where their best interests are served

the children within the e.u are gaining a decent education , but know they can never afford their own home , due to rising house prices ,caused by the strain of a massive population rise , created and initiated by the very people like George soros and tony Blair , who are identified in your post.

welcome to the failing , cracking and crumbling e.u super state

 

[bunbury61]

5 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

The rise of nationalism and authoritarianism is due to self serving individuals seeking power on the back of populist policies and prejudice exploitation,  individuals whose only objective is personal power and wealth.

End of. 

by the way , if you missed it , the rise of nationalism is coming from the working class ,indigenous peoples of the west .

Brexit , trump , Italy , Germany , Austria , is absolutely NOTHING to do with people mentioned in your post .

ordinary people are going to the ballot box and voting this way .

now , I asked you yesterday

why are ordinary people in the west voting for nationalist policies ?

don't get your answer from a book or the guardian , lets have your answer please .

its nothing to do with the wealthy or self serving individuals .

most of those who voted ,probably haven't got a lot ....so lets have it

[BacktoDemocracy]

1 hour ago, bunbury61 said:

by the way , if you missed it , the rise of nationalism is coming from the working class ,indigenous peoples of the west .

Brexit , trump , Italy , Germany , Austria , is absolutely NOTHING to do with people mentioned in your post .

ordinary people are going to the ballot box and voting this way .

now , I asked you yesterday

why are ordinary people in the west voting for nationalist policies ?

don't get your answer from a book or the guardian , lets have your answer please .

its nothing to do with the wealthy or self serving individuals .

most of those who voted ,probably haven't got a lot ....so lets have it

You really must be naive.

The rise of the new authoritarian nation states with their fanfares, flags and regalia, the new improved Europe.

Remember it will be your kids out there fighting for a new world order not you.

And the wind up merchants like Farage, Salvini, Orban, Le Pen and Wilders will be nowhere to be seen.

[bunbury61]

20 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

The rise of the far right is due to a couple of factors.  Former eastern bloc countries have little experience of liberal democracy so have a taste for a for of authoritarian rule.  Populist fascists are more attractive to many.

The far right only need to stir up fear and hatred to prosper.  Hitler used the largely imagined fear of Judaism but modern fascists have a far easier target in Moslems who are streaming into Europe by the million.  The irony that this mass exodus has in no small measure been caused by the likes of the UK and USA and their military forays there is often lost on you.  Having lit the fire both the US and the UK are now working to close their borders leaving the EU to clear up the mess.  Little wonder it is struggling.

none of that is lost on me ...dont flatter yourself .

don't try to patronise me either .

just because a person has an opinion that differs to your own , you appear to class them as lacking intelligence .

its this arrogance ,this " leave it to us , blairite,we know better " attitude , that has gotten Europe into this mess

 

[bunbury61]

2 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

You really must be naive.

The rise of the new authoritarian nation states with their fanfares, flags and regalia, the new improved Europe.

Remember it will be your kids out there fighting for a new world order not you.

And the wind up merchants like Farage, Salvini, Orban, Le Pen and Wilders will be nowhere to be seen.

there you go again , calling people who disagree with you , naive .

...the e.u IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER ....thats my whole point .

globalisation ...no borders ...no rights ...we know better .

Luckily people are waking up , as the sand in the foundations starts to shift .

Blair ...pro e.u ...says it all

soros are renowned globalist has invested p to 9 billion in the globalist e.u project

[bunbury61]

3 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

You really must be naive.

The rise of the new authoritarian nation states with their fanfares, flags and regalia, the new improved Europe.

Remember it will be your kids out there fighting for a new world order not you.

And the wind up merchants like Farage, Salvini, Orban, Le Pen and Wilders will be nowhere to be seen.

orban a wind up merchant .

he's a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of a country .

 

 

[bunbury61]

On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 19:53, BacktoDemocracy said:

Lets face it every country you quote has a real problem with populist, nationalist political parties whose only intention is to disrupt the EU, is that what you are in thrall to, extremist political parties wedded to returning Europe to a series of competing nation states.

The right wing parties in the Italian coalition want to split Italy back to N and S states like in the 1800's, great!!!

Have you looked at what is happening in Hungary and Poland, if you think that is preferable to the EU then It seems clear to me where you stand on the political spectrum. 

what ?????....I have just read this .

its the e.u that have created the problems ,that have led to the rise of nationalism...dear me

[deryans]

I think Brexit is primarily an economic impact and an impact to people who are in thin markets with lesser options, therefore it does not make sense for car workers (for example) to vote for brexit and then accept the economic risk that follows, it's simply unfair.

by and large, there is significant cad-ism by Farage and Bojo to better their own political agendas, at the expense of the people who voted for their "ideal", it looks and smells misleading and it is becoming rather obvious that it is.

The NHS takes a schlocking each and every day from the media with a bias, yet hundreds and thousands of people are treated each day, brexit caused an overall funding (forecast) crisis at the home office and they are now preparing for the worst trying to cut costs in advance of delivering the services, same across many departments who now have to begin to reduce costs.

Yet the NHS is a superb and fantastic institution , delivering care far in excess of any other public system on the planet.

Fear plays a lot in this, ISIS is driving cars into people and killing innocent civilians, yes, and that is appalling, the terror attacks in London are a disgrace, but to suggest that ISIS has any capability to effect any of their goals in the UK or any other european country is to give them far more importance than they actually are, they are infact a nuisance when compared to the likes of the IRA or similar organisations that did far more damage.  So we need to stop villifying migrants with an ISIS tag and stop this anti-muslim rhetoric as it simply is not true and not real.

Right wing policies are a product of inexperience and desperation, and often short lived, Hungary is making it illegal to help migrants, yet many (and I have hungarian friends)  people say its simply un enforceable in hungary,  Poland is trying to undermine the judiciary, this is common stuff, the NSW AG disliked the current Chief justice when I was there it was an open secret.

The big diplomatic winner in all this distracting schnozzle, that he US and Britain and Russia seem to be handwringing  is actually china, and when she gets the idea that she wants to say build a base 50Km off the coast of australia,  who is actually going to stop her ?

I simply don't think brexit as an executable program is possible without significant changes that diminish the whole point.

 

My tip ?   start a Brexit consultancy and sell shovels, snow shoes and pans to the gold diggers on the way up the klondike.

 

 

 

 

[Gbye grey sky]

45 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

none of that is lost on me ...dont flatter yourself .

don't try to patronise me either .

just because a person has an opinion that differs to your own , you appear to class them as lacking intelligence .

its this arrogance ,this " leave it to us , blairite,we know better " attitude , that has gotten Europe into this mess

 

Well.....you asked the question and I gave an answer.

Nobody questioned anyone’s intelligence.

[newjez]

Whexit.

What exit?

[newjez]

2 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

there you go again , calling people who disagree with you , naive .

...the e.u IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER ....thats my whole point .

globalisation ...no borders ...no rights ...we know better .

Luckily people are waking up , as the sand in the foundations starts to shift .

Blair ...pro e.u ...says it all

soros are renowned globalist has invested p to 9 billion in the globalist e.u project

So, we get a trade agreement with the USA.

As soon as trump wants something they threaten to scupper it.

You call that sovereignty?

You're just handing the leash from the farmer to the slaughterhouse.

[newjez]

7 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

the e.u to a tee ....unelected , greedy , undemocratic , self serving ,and arrogant using the populace as cheap flexible labour moving between non existent borders , with no rights , no terms and no conditions .

scraping a living on an increasing zero hours , minimum wage existence .

 

whilst being told they are living in a free , democratic society ,where their best interests are served

the children within the e.u are gaining a decent education , but know they can never afford their own home , due to rising house prices ,caused by the strain of a massive population rise , created and initiated by the very people like George soros and tony Blair , who are identified in your post.

welcome to the failing , cracking and crumbling e.u super state

 

This is when you start to break down, and you start to lose the concept of cause and effect. It's a big complicated world. You can't just put everything in a basket that is bad and say the EU did it.

We are about to leave the EU, and it looks like nothing will change. Who are you going to blame next?

Edited July 6, 2018 by newjez

[BacktoDemocracy]

3 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

orban a wind up merchant .

he's a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of a country .

 

 

Hitler and Mussolini were DEMOCRATICALLY elected!!!

[starlight7]

Young people in Australia can't afford houses, either.  Australia has certainly never been in the EU but if they had been I like to think they would not have been so stupid as to ditch it without having any sort of plan or foresight.

[bunbury61]

3 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Young people in Australia can't afford houses, either.  Australia has certainly never been in the EU but if they had been I like to think they would not have been so stupid as to ditch it without having any sort of plan or foresight.

Australia wouldn't be so stupid as to join a trade bloc like the e.u.

just imagine if Australia created a trade bloc with china - India - Malaysia and n.z ,with FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE .

What a lovely thought , seeing your population rise massively and unaturally in a short space of time .

still keen starlight .

[bunbury61]

On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 23:49, BacktoDemocracy said:

Hitler and Mussolini were DEMOCRATICALLY elected!!!

And WHY did they rise to power .

they didn't appear out of thin air .

[BacktoDemocracy]

8 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

And WHY did they rise to power .

they didn't appear out of thin air .

I think you have missed the point or are simply disingenuous.

[BacktoDemocracy]

14 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Australia wouldn't be so stupid as to join a trade bloc like the e.u.

just imagine if Australia created a trade bloc with china - India - Malaysia and n.z ,with FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE .

What a lovely thought , seeing your population rise massively and unaturally in a short space of time .

still keen starlight .

Ah, the old immigration issue.

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 6/7/2018 at 19:46, bunbury61 said:

none of that is lost on me ...dont flatter yourself .

don't try to patronise me either .

just because a person has an opinion that differs to your own , you appear to class them as lacking intelligence .

its this arrogance ,this " leave it to us , blairite,we know better " attitude , that has gotten Europe into this mess

 

bunbury61

orban a wind up merchant .

he's a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of a c country .

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/madeleine-albright-fascism-is-not-an-ideology-its-a-method-interview-fascism-a-warning

An excellent read, highlights the rise of "fascism" and the reality of it  as seen by someone with first hand experience.

Edited July 8, 2018 by BacktoDemocracy

[newjez]

4 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

Australia wouldn't be so stupid as to join a trade bloc like the e.u.

just imagine if Australia created a trade bloc with china - India - Malaysia and n.z ,with FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE .

What a lovely thought , seeing your population rise massively and unaturally in a short space of time .

still keen starlight .

Australia has a higher immigration rate than the UK.

And they are joining a trade block aren't they?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/dec/19/revived-trans-pacific-trade-deal-undercuts-australian-jobs-market-unions-say

Edited July 8, 2018 by newjez

[Gbye grey sky]

3 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Ah, the old immigration issue.

That’s all it ever was about.  The contortions needed to articulate other justifications over the years has been entertaining though.

[Gbye grey sky]

1 hour ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

bunbury61

orban a wind up merchant .

he's a DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of a c country .

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/08/madeleine-albright-fascism-is-not-an-ideology-its-a-method-interview-fascism-a-warning

An excellent read, highlights the rise of "fascism" and the reality of it  as seen by someone with first hand experience.

Good article.  Yet more confirmation that liberal democracy ceded too much ground to corporate and political eletes who have adopted a patriarchal system which benefits themselves disproportionately.  In doing so they have prepared the ground for populist autocrats to mobilise the discontented.

Unfortunately these populist autocrats always end up recruiting the same elites and those who support them end up even worse off or dead.

I am not at all optimistic that voices of reason will prevail as they cannot offer much in the way of easy answers and slogans - which is what most people want to hear.