Lapsed Permanent Residency Visa - Is RRV an Option for Me?

[Mitas]

Hi All,

My family and I are starting to look at immigrating to Australia and I would like to get some initial advice on the visa options open to me. 

To give some background:

- I am married with two dependant children

- All the immediate family on my side (i.e. parents and both siblings) immigrated around 2006 and are now Australian citizens 

- I was included in the visa application made by my immediate family and was granted a PR visa as a result. Shortly after they moved out I did visit Australia to get this validated

- I was midway through my Uni degree at the time they moved and wanted to finish that. I also then met my wife and we never made the move over, with the permanent residency visa lapsing in 2011 (would need to confirm exactly)

I have only just started looking into this and I am a bit lost on the best way forward given my circumstances. I first started looking at the Remaining Relative visa. However, this doesn’t sound like a great option as there are potentially long wait times (50 years) and if I have read it right my wife’s family, who are all in the UK, will be considered “near relatives”.

I hadn’t considered using my previous PR visa, as I just assumed it had expired and that was that. However, I have come across the Resident Return visas (subclasses 155 & 157) and although I don’t have 2 years of living in Australia in the past 5, I can’t see anything in the eligibility requirements that would exclude me (please tell me if I am way off here).

I haven’t found anything specifically on this but I have a niggling feeling that the visits I’ve made since the PR lapsed might be a problem. These visits (2013 & 2018) were done on the eVisitor 651 visa which may make my lapsed PR visa null and void. Would this be the case?

If it isn’t the case, would applying for and RRV make sense? Appreciate I might need to give more information before this can be answered!

Obviously I need to consider what we do about my wife and children but want to bottom out the RRV option first.

Thanks for any advice/guidance you might be able to give on this and if you need more information, please let me know.

 

[VERYSTORMY]

Your visa never expires, but the travel portion of it does, which is the right to enter Australia. However, as you have identified there is a risk that you have cancelled the PR visa entirely by obtaining visitor visas. So, the first thing to do is check what is your visa status. You can do that here https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi/visas-and-migration/visa-entitlement-verification-online-(vevo)

If your visa is still valid, then you will need to apply for a RRV, although you don't meet the requirements, they do show some leniency in cases like yours. However, you may need to be prepared to act quickly as they may only grant a 12 month RRV.  

[Mitas]

40 minutes ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Your visa never expires, but the travel portion of it does, which is the right to enter Australia. However, as you have identified there is a risk that you have cancelled the PR visa entirely by obtaining visitor visas. So, the first thing to do is check what is your visa status. You can do that here https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi/visas-and-migration/visa-entitlement-verification-online-(vevo)

If your visa is still valid, then you will need to apply for a RRV, although you don't meet the requirements, they do show some leniency in cases like yours. However, you may need to be prepared to act quickly as they may only grant a 12 month RRV.  

Thanks VERYSTORMY for the prompt response.

I’ve entered the visa evidence number and my passport number into VEVO but I get the following message back:

Entered details cannot be confirmed as the TRN/Visa Grant number/Evidence number does not match your current visa. Please confirm your current visa details and re-enter your enquiry. Otherwise, call 1800 040 070 and an officer will assist you.

This does sound like the PR visa may have been overwritten by the eVisitor visas. 

I have had a new passport since the PR was granted so it could it also be this?

[Guest]

A new passport that isn't linked to the visa could also be a problem in the system. You are supposed to notify them of a passport change and update them with the details so the visa can be attached to the current passport. 

[paulhand]

There is a degree of confusion in the forums on this subject.

If you are offshore, you are only considered a permenant resident of Australia if you hold a valid visa allowing you to return as a PR. If your PR Visa expires when you are offshore you are no longer a permanent resident, you become a former permanent resident. To regain your permenant residence status you need to be granted an RRV.

Former PRs are able to get RRVs, even if they have entered Australia as a temporary visa holder in the interim. The temporary visa does not ‘cancel’ the PR as the PR no longer exists. There are various permutations of requirements for an RRV based on location when applying and length of absence - the exact details will depend on your exact circumstances.

In all cases, if you do not meet the 2 years in 5 residency requirement, you must demonstrate that you have “substantial business, cultural, employment or personal ties with Australia which are of benefit to Australia”. Additionally, if you have been absent from Australia for more than 5 years you must demonstrate “compelling reasons” for that absence. 

Given the costs and complexity of most other visa pathways, for any former PR it is generally worth properly investigating whether an RRV is an option. It is worth having an RMA look at the specific circumstances of your case and advising you. 

 

[Guest]

Its worth running it past a reputable migration agent and seeing if you do have reasonable grounds to lodge for an RRV. 

As said above, if you did get an RRV it may well only be valid for a year and you'd have to make the move once and for all in that time frame. Also your wife and children would need a visa won't they? And you'd have to ensure you had a decent plan for this as they can take longer than a year to process. An agent would be best placed to explain your options in that regard. 

[Mitas]

Thanks all for the advice - really appreciate it.

I managed to get through to the number provided on the error given by the VEVO check. They confirmed the error was due to me having a more recent eVisitor visa and that my permanent visa had expired. They could see both on my current passport. 

However, they did echo the advice here in that it might be possible to reinstate the PR visa by applying for an RRV (providing evidence of strong ties and compelling reasons for absence). 

I think using an RMA will definitely be the next step to get further advice. I’ve started to look into this but are there any particular recommendations on an agent to use - anyone had any experiencing using one for an RRV?

[Guest]

Any of the agents who post regularly on the forum would be a good starting point.

@wrussell @Raul Senise @Alan Collett

[calNgary]

4 hours ago, Mitas said:

Thanks all for the advice - really appreciate it.

I managed to get through to the number provided on the error given by the VEVO check. They confirmed the error was due to me having a more recent eVisitor visa and that my permanent visa had expired. They could see both on my current passport. 

However, they did echo the advice here in that it might be possible to reinstate the PR visa by applying for an RRV (providing evidence of strong ties and compelling reasons for absence). 

I think using an RMA will definitely be the next step to get further advice. I’ve started to look into this but are there any particular recommendations on an agent to use - anyone had any experiencing using one for an RRV?

Paul Hand who replied to you above is an agent.

 Cal x

[Mitas]

Thanks both.

I did see Paul’s MARN in his signature after asking the question but my google skills seem to be failing me, as I cannot find any information for him aside for the MARA registration. 

[paulhand]

1 hour ago, Mitas said:

Thanks both.

I did see Paul’s MARN in his signature after asking the question but my google skills seem to be failing me, as I cannot find any information for him aside for the MARA registration. 

I’ll PM you. 

[paulhand]

11 hours ago, Mitas said:

Thanks both.

I did see Paul’s MARN in his signature after asking the question but my google skills seem to be failing me, as I cannot find any information for him aside for the MARA registration. 

For some reason, I can't PM you. You can reach me at enquire(at)suncoastmigration.com

Many thanks

 

[Guest The Pom Queen]

2 hours ago, Paul Hand said:

For some reason, I can't PM you. You can reach me at enquire(at)suncoastmigration.com

Many thanks

 

Hi @paulhand if you send me a pm with the username you wish to use I can delete the other account. Members have to make a certain amount of posts before they can message a user, this stops people signing up just to spam a member.

[paulhand]

Hi - that's not possible unfortunately, as I am unable to send PMs, even to you! I think you need to start the conversation and I can reply. 

 

Cheers

 

[Cerberus1]

8 minutes ago, Paul Hand said:

Hi - that's not possible unfortunately, as I am unable to send PMs, even to you! I think you need to start the conversation and I can reply. 

 

Cheers

 

That's because the Private Message Facility only becomes available when you've made a certain number of posts on the forum. As you've elected to use a new account, you don't have that facility yet.

[paulhand]

Understood - the election was entirely involuntary - I have PM'd the @The Pom Queen - perhaps you could delete the messages above, which don't add much to the conversation. Apologies for the confusion.

 

 

[Jay2016]

Great advice from paulhand. IF you get the RRV granted you will get 12mths, much like I did (not 5yrs). My circumstances were simpler than yours (I thought mine were tough) and I was told I didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting an RRV, but I did.

[Marisawright]

23 minutes ago, Jay2016 said:

.. I was told I didn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting an RRV, but I did.

I've noticed that a fair bit recently.  Paul Hand explained the rules well in his post - if you can't meet the 2 years out of 5, or you've been away longer, then there are supposedly tough hurdles to cross to get a RRV. However, looking at people who've managed to get a one-year RRV recently, it seems like it's not as strict as we think.  

[Canaus]

Very thankful to find this thread. I spent 3.5 years in Aus as a permanent resident from age 4-7, then moved back to North America where all my family is living. I successfully applied for a 461 (NZ spouse visa) after finding no evidence that I could get back in on PR. But because 461 is technically temporary (5 years), I could still maybe get an RRV? 461 is a pretty awful long term visa (no health care, no benefits/voting etc), despite being infinitely renewable.

Can an RMA explain if I even need an RRV if I returned on another visa? Can't find any other situations like mine online.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Canaus

[ali]

2 hours ago, Canaus said:

Very thankful to find this thread. I spent 3.5 years in Aus as a permanent resident from age 4-7, then moved back to North America where all my family is living. I successfully applied for a 461 (NZ spouse visa) after finding no evidence that I could get back in on PR. But because 461 is technically temporary (5 years), I could still maybe get an RRV? 461 is a pretty awful long term visa (no health care, no benefits/voting etc), despite being infinitely renewable.

Can an RMA explain if I even need an RRV if I returned on another visa? Can't find any other situations like mine online.

For the RRV - you will need to prove your substantial ties to Australia - you may be able to argue that you had no choice leaving the country due to your age.  I would certainly get the advice from an RMA (you may need to pay for that service) if you are thinking of entering the country on another visa from another country.  

[Canaus]

4 hours ago, ali said:

For the RRV - you will need to prove your substantial ties to Australia - you may be able to argue that you had no choice leaving the country due to your age.  I would certainly get the advice from an RMA (you may need to pay for that service) if you are thinking of entering the country on another visa from another country.  

Thanks for the reply. It's beyond thinking, I have the visa and have a plane ticket for mid February. Too late to take a gamble on an RRV now really.

On the bright side, I sold my condo right before the housing market started crashing here. If I waited years I'd have no financial cushion.

[Marisawright]

19 minutes ago, Canaus said:

Thanks for the reply. It's beyond thinking, I have the visa and have a plane ticket for mid February. Too late to take a gamble on an RRV now really.

On the bright side, I sold my condo right before the housing market started crashing here. If I waited years I'd have no financial cushion.

There's nothing to stop you applying for the RRV though.   And the longer you leave it, the less chance you'll have of getting it.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Marisawright

[ali]

7 hours ago, Canaus said:

Thanks for the reply. It's beyond thinking, I have the visa and have a plane ticket for mid February. Too late to take a gamble on an RRV now really.

On the bright side, I sold my condo right before the housing market started crashing here. If I waited years I'd have no financial cushion.

I was thinking more to check if by entering on another visa it would cancel your PR visa (making a RRV irrelevant if it did)

[Aussiebird]

On 04/06/2018 at 05:44, VERYSTORMY said:

Your visa never expires, but the travel portion of it does, which is the right to enter Australia. However, as you have identified there is a risk that you have cancelled the PR visa entirely by obtaining visitor visas. So, the first thing to do is check what is your visa status. You can do that here https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi/visas-and-migration/visa-entitlement-verification-online-(vevo)

If your visa is still valid, then you will need to apply for a RRV, although you don't meet the requirements, they do show some leniency in cases like yours. However, you may need to be prepared to act quickly as they may only grant a 12 month RRV.  

What would happen if you was granted a 1 year RRV but didnt travel in that time? Would you just apply again?

 

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, Aussiebird said:

What would happen if you was granted a 1 year RRV but didnt travel in that time? Would you just apply again?

 

You’d be risking them saying no because obviously you weren’t serous