Sydney vs Melbourne on 457

[dogsill]

Anybody would like to weigh in on my pro/con list?

Coming over from NY on husband's secondment. He works in risk/banking. I work as a private chef.

We have 2 kids and would have to pay 11k year in school fees on the 457 for NSW

Planning on downsizing tremendously so Ok with a small apt. Are the Sydney beaches/lifestyle/weather worth the school fees or should we 

just plan on Melbourne and save ourselves 11K year. I'm sure I could easily make those school fees up by freelancing myself - My daughter is worried about 

not nice beaches in Melbourne and overcrowded beaches in Sydney. Perth is unfortunately not an option right now. Husband would probably have more growth and interest in Sydney...

He's Scottish and I'm from California if that makes a difference - he also currently has over an hour train commute now and would like an easier commute.. thanks!

 

 

[rammygirl]

How long for?  Tbh if just a couple of years I would go for Sydney, working in the CBD with the iconic sights a stroll away.............

also just because VIC doesn’t implement school fees for 457 now doesn’t mean they won’t. Both WA and SA changed and not just for new applicants. New financial year in July things change......

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, dogsill said:

Coming over from NY on husband's secondment. He works in risk/banking. I work as a private chef.

We have 2 kids and would have to pay 11k year in school fees on the 457 for NSW

Planning on downsizing tremendously so Ok with a small apt. Are the Sydney beaches/lifestyle/weather worth the school fees or should we 

just plan on Melbourne and save ourselves 11K year. I'm sure I could easily make those school fees up by freelancing myself - My daughter is worried about 

not nice beaches in Melbourne and overcrowded beaches in Sydney. Perth is unfortunately not an option right now. Husband would probably have more growth and interest in Sydney...

He's Scottish and I'm from California if that makes a difference - he also currently has over an hour train commute now and would like an easier commute.. thanks!

As you're coming on a temp visa, then I'd suggest Sydney, because it has more of the iconic things you expect from Australia - beaches, lifestyle, weather. 

However, if you're hoping you will eventually be able to get a permanent visa and stay, then I'd go for Melbourne - solely because house prices are about two-thirds that of Sydney, so you'll be able to afford a much nicer home in a much nicer suburb when you are eventually able to buy something.

Your husband will not have an easier commute in either city, unless you have very deep pockets.  An hour's commute is pretty normal.   Australian cities are smaller in population terms, but they are very spread out.    Melbourne occupies more space than London even though it has only one-fifth the population, so the outer suburbs are a long way from the city.  What's your budget for a rental?  

[CeltInCaulfield]

Erm... Nothing wrong with Melbourne's beaches.  Thanks.

[Marisawright]

11 minutes ago, CeltInCaulfield said:

Erm... Nothing wrong with Melbourne's beaches.  Thanks.

Depends what you're comparing them with.  Plus there's the consideration of the number of days you can reliably get to the beach.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Marisawright

[dogsill]

Thank you to above. Our rental budget is $750 wk as we'd be living off one salary most likely. 

Getting a 2 br is fine, looking at Thornbury/Northcote for Melbourne and Double Bay area for Sydney

Daughter is in 7th grade now in US .. This is a 3 year plan but in 2-3 years he'll be partner and there's a Perth option

once they expand that office etc.. The first year will be tight we know. Re beaches - not knocking Melbourne just want ocean 

not Bay. If we're inner city in Sydney, we don't need a car per se? Uber and transit are fine and hire a car for road trips? I've always 

driven as I'm american so not sure I want to get a car etc. but we also have a 5 year old.

[Toots]

There are very few 2 bedroom apartments for rent in Double Bay for $750 per week.  There is this one for  $765.  All the other are more expensive.

https://www.domain.com.au/5-528-new-south-head-road-double-bay-nsw-2028-12098968

[dogsill]

32 minutes ago, Toots said:

There are very few 2 bedroom apartments for rent in Double Bay for $750 per week.  There is this one for  $765.  All the other are more expensive.

https://www.domain.com.au/5-528-new-south-head-road-double-bay-nsw-2028-12098968

yes thanks - been looking daily at domain.. - our budget is flexible but looking at the rose bay secondary catchment area 

 

[Marisawright]

58 minutes ago, dogsill said:

Thank you to above. Our rental budget is $750 wk as we'd be living off one salary most likely. 

Getting a 2 br is fine, looking at Thornbury/Northcote for Melbourne and Double Bay area for Sydney

...Re beaches - not knocking Melbourne just want ocean 

not Bay. If we're inner city in Sydney, we don't need a car per se? Uber and transit are fine and hire a car for road trips? I've always 

Thornbury/Northcote are nice quiet suburbs and you'll get a decent apartment for that price.   You might also want to consider Williamstown or Yarraville, both about the same distance as Thornbury but on the other side of the city.   Check out Homely.com.au for reviews of suburbs.  Maybe someone else can help with schools.

Double Bay is a famously snobbish suburb of Sydney.   Pictures are deceptive (all the realtors use fish-eye lenses to make the places look bigger).  There's a lot of lovely old apartment blocks in Double Bay and Rose Bay, but the rooms are very small.   I lived there at one time - even with just me and my husband, it was pretty cramped!   

Besides, I think you'd be much happier somewhere like Randwick, Centennial Park, or Waverley.  They are still an easy commute to the city but they also have good schools, and they are handy for the beaches.   

My personal favourite place in Sydney for a family is Oatley.  It has a lovely village feel with small shops, restaurants, cafés and a pub.  It's 40 minutes by train to the city centre (or 20 minutes by car outside of rush hour if you're going out in the evening).  Because it's well outside the city, I think you'd find it easier to get used to driving - though the train and bus link are so good, you probably wouldn't need to use it much.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Marisawright

[dogsill]

4 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Thornbury/Northcote are nice quiet suburbs and you'll get a decent apartment for that price.   You might also want to consider Williamstown or Yarraville, both about the same distance as Thornbury but on the other side of the city.   Check out Homely.com.au for reviews of suburbs. 

Double Bay is a famously snobbish suburb of Sydney.   Pictures are deceptive (all the realtors use fish-eye lenses to make the places look bigger).  There's a lot of lovely old apartment blocks in Double Bay and Rose Bay, but the rooms are very small.   I lived there at one time - even with just me and my husband, it was pretty cramped!

Besides, I think you'd be much happier somewhere like Randwick, Centennial Park, or Waverley.  They are still an easy commute to the city but they also have good schools, and they are handy for the beaches.   

My personal favourite place in Sydney for a family is Oatley.  It has a lovely village feel with small shops, restaurants, cafés and a pub.  It's 40 minutes by train to the city centre (or 20 minutes by car outside of rush hour if you're going out in the evening).  The only snag is that the local primary schools have such a good reputation, you might have trouble getting a place for your child.   Because it's well outside the city, I think you'd find it easier to get used to driving - though the train and bus link are so good, you probably wouldn't need to use it much.

Thank you Marisa! yes, any suburbs to look into is so helpful. I was only looking at Double bay area thinking I'd be closer to Point Piper where I have a client. But that's not guaranteed work. Husband also mentioned the snobbishness. We're coming from Westchester NY after living in Brooklyn for 15 years and this place is full of snobs. My daughter has struggled to find like minded friends. She's a pretty hip/old soul kid into guitar and wants to skim board, skate board. Plays tennis - doesn't listen to current pop music etc. Williamstown I did look at, as it reminded me of our old neighborhood Red Hook in Brooklyn. This is so difficult gaging Sydney from my laptop.. Crunch time is here and Husband needs to decide and we have to be out of our current place July 1st. I also have a mad obsession with rock pools and love to lap swim. So that's a bonus. 

[Marisawright]

10 hours ago, dogsill said:

Thank you Marisa! yes, any suburbs to look into is so helpful. I was only looking at Double bay area thinking I'd be closer to Point Piper where I have a client. But that's not guaranteed work. Husband also mentioned the snobbishness. We're coming from Westchester NY after living in Brooklyn for 15 years and this place is full of snobs. My daughter has struggled to find like minded friends. She's a pretty hip/old soul kid into guitar and wants to skim board, skate board. Plays tennis - doesn't listen to current pop music etc. Williamstown I did look at, as it reminded me of our old neighborhood Red Hook in Brooklyn. This is so difficult gaging Sydney from my laptop.. Crunch time is here and Husband needs to decide and we have to be out of our current place July 1st. I also have a mad obsession with rock pools and love to lap swim. So that's a bonus. 

Rock pools and lap swims - it has to be Sydney then!  

https://concreteplayground.com/sydney/travel-leisure/leisure/ten-best-ocean-pools-in-sydney/

...and Randwick would be an ideal suburb because it's close to some of them.   Manly has gorgeous pools too, though I don't know what the rental market is like there.  Your husband could go to to work on the ferry every morning!   The Northern Beaches would be too far for you if you're worried about driving.

The city centre (CBD) and Eastern Suburbs of Sydney are mostly great places to live, with the beaches close by - but they are all pricey.   The apartment blocks in beachside suburbs like Coogee and Bondi are either eyewateringly expensive, or full of young people on working holiday visas, sharing too many people to a room (which means if you rent one of those, you may have noisy neighbours).   Bellevue Hill and Rose Bay have a large Jewish population - not a problem, but if you're not Jewish it can affect how easy it is to make friends.

For the majority of locals, the Eastern Suburbs are simply too expensive.   Young professionals live in the trendy ring of suburbs in the Inner West - Annandale, Leichhardt, Balmain - but of course, there's no beach.

Once you get past that inner ring of suburbs, you have to be very careful, because it's mostly dormitory suburbs - meaning they've got no shops, no pubs, no restaurants.  Sydney has huge Westfield malls at strategic centres and that's where everyone shops.  You get the occasional gem like Oatley but you have to know where they are!   Whereas in Melbourne, most suburbs have their own strip of high street shops.

[dogsill]

Thanks Marisa, and if a listing is for a 6 month lease - I imagine that's a recently bought place they're trying to let out while they get their construction permits to flip it or remodel etc.

for Melbourne - how's elwood/brighton? Also interested in Camberwell - but not sure we want to send daughter to an all girls school. 

[Nemesis]

3 hours ago, dogsill said:

Thanks Marisa, and if a listing is for a 6 month lease - I imagine that's a recently bought place they're trying to let out while they get their construction permits to flip it or remodel etc.

for Melbourne - how's elwood/brighton? Also interested in Camberwell - but not sure we want to send daughter to an all girls school. 

Any place can be on a 6 month lease. Doesn't have to be new or a renovation property. I lived in a place for years that had 6 month leases each time, landlord wanted the option to review the rent every few months. 

[dogsill]

43 minutes ago, Nemesis said:

Any place can be on a 6 month lease. Doesn't have to be new or a renovation property. I lived in a place for years that had 6 month leases each time, landlord wanted the option to review the rent every few months. 

ooh, good to know thanks! I saw a few places and wasn't sure. is there a rental law that the landlord can raise the rent a certain amount per lease term?

[Marisawright]

5 hours ago, dogsill said:

ooh, good to know thanks! I saw a few places and wasn't sure. is there a rental law that the landlord can raise the rent a certain amount per lease term?

Yes, the rent is only fixed for the term of the lease, so it could theoretically go up every six months.  Unlikely, though.  Annual increases are more common.

Six month leases are normal in Sydney, especially for the first lease.   Under Australian law, it's very difficult to evict an unsuitable tenant, so landlords prefer to give a short lease just in case you destroy the place!   Once your first lease expires, you can ask for a 12 month lease next time.

I'm living in Melbourne now and was surprised to discover that 12 month leases are the norm here, even for the first lease.