Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 We've been in Melbourne for 10 years this coming November and this subject has never come up until a recent conversation I had with another (British) parent at school pick-up. We were discussing a forthcoming family holiday that we're taking back home and I happened to comment on how slowly the line seems to move at Melbourne Airport for non-Australian passport-holders as opposed to that for the locals. He looked a bit puzzled by this and then said "don't you travel on your Australian passport then?" When I told him that I didn't have Australian citizenship he looked astonished and said "10 years here and you haven't got citizenship, are you mad?!" I must admit that I was a bit taken aback by how strongly he felt about it, but he went on to say that he had applied for citizenship as soon as he could and that there were lots of benefits attached to having it. As I say, up until now it's never occurred to me to apply for Australian citizenship as I've got a spouse visa through my Australian wife which affords me the right to live and work here. I've never had any immigration issues during our 10 years here, other than having to purchase a Resident's Return Visa when I go home. When I asked him what the benefits of citizenship were he said voting and being able to undertake work contracts with the armed forces. Oh, and not having to wait so long in the airport queue! I'm guessing that there must be more benefits to having citizenship than the ones he listed, so just wondered what other people found the advantages to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber Snowball Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: We've been in Melbourne for 10 years this coming November and this subject has never come up until a recent conversation I had with another (British) parent at school pick-up. We were discussing a forthcoming family holiday that we're taking back home and I happened to comment on how slowly the line seems to move at Melbourne Airport for non-Australian passport-holders as opposed to that for the locals. He looked a bit puzzled by this and then said "don't you travel on your Australian passport then?" When I told him that I didn't have Australian citizenship he looked astonished and said "10 years here and you haven't got citizenship, are you mad?!" I must admit that I was a bit taken aback by how strongly he felt about it, but he went on to say that he had applied for citizenship as soon as he could and that there were lots of benefits attached to having it. As I say, up until now it's never occurred to me to apply for Australian citizenship as I've got a spouse visa through my Australian wife which affords me the right to live and work here. I've never had any immigration issues during our 10 years here, other than having to purchase a Resident's Return Visa when I go home. When I asked him what the benefits of citizenship were he said voting and being able to undertake work contracts with the armed forces. Oh, and not having to wait so long in the airport queue! I'm guessing that there must be more benefits to having citizenship than the ones he listed, so just wondered what other people found the advantages to be? access to HECS loan, but any children you have would get those anyway as they are citizens, unless you fancy doing a course. Otherwise I don’t know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 What if you get divorced ? Aer you still allowed to stay ? Being a citizen means you can never be deported. Non citizens are subjects to the whims of the government regarding visas etc. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parley Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I think the greatest benefit which most people aspire to is simply to be able say "I am an Australian". 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 If you are only a Permanent Resident, then if you're convicted of a crime, you can be stripped of your PR and deported as a foreigner. I'm sure you're not planning to commit crime, but what if you were wrongfully convicted of something? If you're only a Permanent Resident and you have to go back to the UK to care for an aged parent, you'd better be sure you're going to return within your RRV or you may never get back in, ever. Whereas if you're a citizen, you can always return no matter how long you're away. Finally, rules can change. I can't imagine Australia getting really draconian and making life difficult for non-citizens, but then I'd never have believed Trump could become president. The world is a strange place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I'd apply for citizenship of any country (if eligible) if I was choosing to call it home and it was where my kids are growing up. As has been said, voting, working for Gov. airport lines are the 3 things you could benefit from once a citizen. In so many other ways I think it makes sense, especially when you are married to an Aussie and have kids with Aus or dual citizenship. In Aus the cost of the RRV is more than the cost of applying for citizenship iirc. Once a citizen then its a new passport every 10 years and no worry about an RRV ever again. And as has been mentioned, the old deportation if on a visa could occur. There have been numerous cases of people here over half their lives, or most of their lives who have never applied for citizenship and who only have PR who find themselves being kicked out of the country. You never know what is around the corner and what life has in store. Some countries don't allow you to hold dual or multiple citizenships. The UK and Australia do. There isn't really any reason not to IMHO, especially as I said if you are calling Aus home and your kids are growing up here. These articles covers some other points. Some of them listed are slightly different https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/punjabi/en/article/2017/01/26/7-advantages-becoming-australian-citizen https://www.sbs.com.au/news/10-benefits-of-australian-citizenship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Amber Snowball said: access to HECS loan, but any children you have would get those anyway as they are citizens, unless you fancy doing a course. Otherwise I don’t know. My kids are both citizens, one born here, one in UK. I'm 50, so very unlikely to head back into study now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amber Snowball Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: My kids are both citizens, one born here, one in UK. I'm 50, so very unlikely to head back into study now. I would agree with the convenience of not having to get and pay for a RRV every 5 years. If you travel alot that alone would be worth getting citizenship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Parley said: I think the greatest benefit which most people aspire to is simply to be able say "I am an Australian". Except that that would be a bit of a fib as I'm British! I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I pretended to be Australian! 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 For us gaining citizenship was like the final piece in the migration jigsaw. It gave us security and more than that, gave my children security for the future. Cal x 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Pom Queen Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I think even on PR it always felt like it wasn’t secure and like others have said there could be a risk of it being stripped from you. Also the cost of the RRV. Mind you we were able to get ours in 2006 but waited until 2008 I think it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I strongly believe that if possible all members of a family should hold the same citizenship(s). Saying that a friend here still does not have citizenship after 25 years, his kids hVe though and he works for local government. He keeps meaning to but then travels Nd gets a 5 year RRV and says I will sort it when this runs out............. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix16 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Agree with Rammygirl, my child is an Australian citizen, cannot imagine ever not being able to be here in oz with her, citizenship removes that worry for me (also was very proud to become an Aussie actually), I’ve read too many stories on here of families separated simply because they did not become citizens. I can’t imagine, if you live here permanently why you wouldnt.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themaccas Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Also it means if you were overseas and got into trouble if any kind, as an Aus citizen, the Australian government would assist and represent you. The U.K. one would too but if you’re living in Aus it would make sense to want support from the Australian government. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 8 hours ago, Phoenix16 said: Agree with Rammygirl, my child is an Australian citizen, cannot imagine ever not being able to be here in oz with her, citizenship removes that worry for me (also was very proud to become an Aussie actually), I’ve read too many stories on here of families separated simply because they did not become citizens. I can’t imagine, if you live here permanently why you wouldnt.... As I say, it's never occurred to me until now. It's never come up as an issue. Going back to Parley's post about being able to call yourself an Australian, that's really struck a chord with me. I'm British and don't feel Australian, so it would feel a bit like cheating to turn up at an airport somewhere with an Australian passport! There's also the issue of how long we continue to reside here. We're looking to head home upon retirement so that kind of colours my thinking too. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, and should just go ahead and do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrets Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: As I say, it's never occurred to me until now. It's never come up as an issue. Going back to Parley's post about being able to call yourself an Australian, that's really struck a chord with me. I'm British and don't feel Australian, so it would feel a bit like cheating to turn up at an airport somewhere with an Australian passport! There's also the issue of how long we continue to reside here. We're looking to head home upon retirement so that kind of colours my thinking too. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, and should just go ahead and do it! It might feel a bit like cheating, but a concern for me with travelling overseas for work was ending up on a different set of passports from my kids. A friend of my parents never took up his options (unclear if this is was citizenship), but had a medical incident when outside of Australia. That was it - gates shut and he was not allowed back. Extreme I know but enough of a concern for me to ensure we all are on the same documentation. Being British you would have the benefit of dual citizenship - so not need to rescind as many others do to take up your Australian citizenship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unzippy Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 I’d get it for piece of mind. The only person you need to show it to is customs at the airport, no one else needs to know 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 12 hours ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: Except that that would be a bit of a fib as I'm British! I wouldn't be fooling anyone if I pretended to be Australian! i seem to recall that you're in Australia under sufferance. We've seen a few people like yourself on this forum, Brits who've had to come to Australia because of family and are just putting up with it. I can understand why you'd resist becoming a citizen, but I think you're fooling yourself if you claim it's because of principle. It's because becoming a citizen would mean contemplating the possibility of living in Australia again, something you'd hate. The truth is, becoming a citizen frees you. Your kids are citizens. What if they decide to move back to Australia later? If you head back to the UK without citizenship, then you'll soon lose your right to return. You might think, "so what, I wouldn't want to live in Oz, I'd just visit the on holidays." But what if they marry an Aussie and have kids? What if the grandkids get sick and you need to come to Australia to help look after them? What about when you get so old and frail you need to move to Australia so they can look after you? You never know what the future holds. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraphim Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 It's a no brainer. As a British Citizen you sacrifice nothing to ALSO become an Australian Citizen, and get all the benefits with none of the costs. It's cheaper to pay $282 for a 10 year passport than $360 for a 5 year RRV, and it gives you future proofing. I'll always be a British Expat here but I'm an 'Australian" on paper and it gives you and any kids options and sticks a pin in it if, like Marisawright says, you need to come and go to a different timescale than the government dictates for PR's. Don't delay it, the government can and may move the goalposts and as far as I can tell, there are no downsides to being a Dual National other than you might have to run for the senate! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rammygirl Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: As I say, it's never occurred to me until now. It's never come up as an issue. Going back to Parley's post about being able to call yourself an Australian, that's really struck a chord with me. I'm British and don't feel Australian, so it would feel a bit like cheating to turn up at an airport somewhere with an Australian passport! There's also the issue of how long we continue to reside here. We're looking to head home upon retirement so that kind of colours my thinking too. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, and should just go ahead and do it! All the more reason to get it. If you return to UK to retire and your kids stay in Australia it will be easy to visit for as long as you like without needing visas. Getting RRVs after 5 years of absence starts to become tricky and they do change the rules....... Also even visit visas get harder as you get older and may require medical for them. Does your wife have UK citizenship? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s713 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 OP, I'm in the same boat as you, been here 10+ years, never got citizenship, never really been sold on the benefits. I will do it at some point though I think. The day when I murder someone at work grows closer and it would be nice to serve my sentence over here. Mind you, you probably don't get multiple games consoles like you do in UK jails so I might leave it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Marisawright said: i seem to recall that you're in Australia under sufferance. We've seen a few people like yourself on this forum, Brits who've had to come to Australia because of family and are just putting up with it. I can understand why you'd resist becoming a citizen, but I think you're fooling yourself if you claim it's because of principle. It's because becoming a citizen would mean contemplating the possibility of living in Australia again, something you'd hate. The truth is, becoming a citizen frees you. Your kids are citizens. What if they decide to move back to Australia later? If you head back to the UK without citizenship, then you'll soon lose your right to return. You might think, "so what, I wouldn't want to live in Oz, I'd just visit the on holidays." But what if they marry an Aussie and have kids? What if the grandkids get sick and you need to come to Australia to help look after them? What about when you get so old and frail you need to move to Australia so they can look after you? You never know what the future holds. Not under sufferance, we moved out here as my wife was missing Australia and we wanted to give our oldest child (our youngest was born here) the chance to spend time with her maternal grandparents. As public sector workers Australia offers us a better standard of living than we'd have back home, so being here is a no-brainer really. We've always had a nice life here as a family, so I was surprised to read that you think I hate living here. We're not looking to return to live in the UK until we retire - 13-15 years from now - and by then I reckon our kids will have long since flown the coup. If we make the big move home for retirement then I doubt we'll have the energy to return to Australia in our dotage. We were pretty old having our second daughter (43 and 44 respectively) and so I doubt we'd be much use to her by the time she starts a family of her own (if she does). As I say, I'm not opposed to taking out citizenship at all, it's just that it's never come up before as an issue and I was curious as to what others felt were the advantages it had over permanent residency. If anything was holding me back, then I guess subconsciously it was a sense of not feeling Australian, of still being a guest here, an outsider, albeit a happy one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saurer Pfirsich Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 hour ago, rammygirl said: All the more reason to get it. If you return to UK to retire and your kids stay in Australia it will be easy to visit for as long as you like without needing visas. Getting RRVs after 5 years of absence starts to become tricky and they do change the rules....... Also even visit visas get harder as you get older and may require medical for them. Does your wife have UK citizenship? Yes, she took it out years ago and both kids are dual-nationals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marisawright Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Saurer Pfirsich said: Not under sufferance,...We've always had a nice life here as a family, so I was surprised to read that you think I hate living here. We're not looking to return to live in the UK until we retire - 13-15 years from now - and by then I reckon our kids will have long since flown the coup Glad to hear it. I must have misconstrued a comment you made. I see your logic. I became a citizen as soon as I could, because at the time, I had elderly parents and I always feared I'd get "the call", have to rush home, and then find myself stuck in the UK for several years to care for one or other of them - which would've meant losing my right to return. Frankly I can't see your reluctance. You may feel British not Australian, but you are living in the country and contributing to it. Damn it, you're entitled to citizenship, so why not claim your right to it? On another note, if you're planning to return when you retire, then I hope you've done the research. For instance, if you leave before Australian retirement age, you won't be able to collect the Australian aged pension, so it may be worth keeping up your British NI contributions to improve your British pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can1983 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 can't believe anyone would even question not getting it immediately. Only downside is compulsory voting which can be a pain if you need to go abroad at short notice and have to vote to avoid a fine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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