Should Donald Trump win Nobel Peace Prize ?

[Blue Manna 195]

3 hours ago, Skani said:

Latvia is closer to Moscow than Ukraine and is already a member of Nato.  Estonia and Finland are both within spitting distance of St. Petersburg and are both NATO members.  What he has achieved is to strengthen NATO  because  previous non members have now either applied to join (Sweden) or  have sought to increase  their defence links to NATO (Switzerland).

Putin is patently the aggressor here.   Ukraine's minding its own business and Putin's "special military opposition" invades a foreign sovereign country.  That's aggression.

Putin has made it clear that he deeply resents the break up of the old Soviet Union and has a messianic/megalomanic zeal to reconstitute it.  He started with the Crimea in 2014 and was emboldened by the lack of push back from outside Ukraine at that time.   In hindsight that was probably an error which could have averted the greater disaster now happening.   The other post Soviet countries have  no  doubt he would try it on with them if he succeeds in Ukraine.

Of course America is the most peaceful loving nation of the world isn't it?

Strategically Ukraine is very important, and it was the last straw.

Imagine if Russia controlled all of Canada, and then was starting to control Mexico, with it's close proximity to Texas and USA oil. What do you think American reaction would have been?

[Marisawright 10,724]

18 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

Imagine if Russia controlled all of Canada, and then was starting to control Mexico, with it's close proximity to Texas and USA oil. What do you think American reaction would have been?

Imagine if it was Britain in that position, not Ukraine. Would you be advising everyone to just let Russia take over your life?

[Blue Manna 195]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

Imagine if it was Britain in that position, not Ukraine. Would you be advising everyone to just let Russia take over your life?

If Russia took over Ireland then the UK would invade Ireland and you would be crying that the Irish should be able to have their independence.

[Blue Manna 195]

3 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Imagine if it was Britain in that position, not Ukraine. Would you be advising everyone to just let Russia take over your life?

I'm not saying that Putin has been incredibly bright here. He underestimated the defensive capability that the USA had installed in Ukraine. He was much too late in his invasion, he should have kept going when he took Crimea. He planned another Georgia and it didn't happen.

But the USA and Europe could have avoided this. They could have brought Russia to it's knees economically. But Europe has been pathetic, (trump said they would be), and biden said he's not going to do any sanctions that will be detrimental to the USA. Which is just pathetic. But he's more than happy to extinguish the Ukrainian people? He is actually, because it hurts Russia. With friends like the USA, Ukraine is caught between a rock and a hard place and it's being crushed.

[Marisawright 10,724]

1 hour ago, Blue Manna said:

If Russia took over Ireland then the UK would invade Ireland and you would be crying that the Irish should be able to have their independence.

Yes, and? No one had taken over Ukraine before Russia invaded

[InnerVoice 1,021]

4 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

If Russia took over Ireland then the UK would invade Ireland and you would be crying that the Irish should be able to have their independence.

Oh really? No, we'd all sit back and say thank god Ireland is finally someone else's problem.

[Blue Manna 195]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and? No one had taken over Ukraine before Russia invaded

Sure about that, because I'm pretty sure America did.

But Ukraine is so last year. It's just horse trading now to see who keeps what.

The real question is Taiwan. Does Taiwan become like Hong Kong, stable with a few less freedoms, or does it get decimated (true meaning of the word) and reduced to a pile of smoking rubble?

What would the people decide? We'll never know because America isn't going to let that chip industry fall into Chinese hands. They will take it back to year zero before that happens.

You need to wake up to who controls this world and what their agendas are. And we're not always the good guys. In fact we rarely are. But we do generally get to write the history books, so we make it sound like we are.

[Blue Manna 195]

3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Yes, and? No one had taken over Ukraine before Russia invaded

A question for you. American military intelligence is pretty good. They would have had a pretty good idea of the Russian strength and the Ukrainian strength, and they must have known they were doomed to failure. Plus, they deliberately delayed the arming of Ukraine with offensive weapons, meaning their offensive was delayed, allowing the Russians more time to dig in, and extending the war for another year. It's almost like the American's are trying to extinguish the Ukrainians as a fighting force before the Russians take over. Maybe they have learned from past mistakes, where they armed and trained the Vietnamese, the Iraqis, the Afghanistans, etc, and they ended up turning against the Americans. Food for thought. 

[unzippy 3,874]

17 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

American military intelligence is pretty good. They would have had a pretty good idea of the Russian strength and the Ukrainian strength

I don't think any one had an good idea about the Russian strength.

Everyone thought they were armed to teeth with working, up-to-date kit.  Even the Russians thought that!  Then it was discovered lack of maintenance, siphoning of funds etc meant most of their kit was completely unreliable.

Do you not recall all the reports at the beginning of the invasion of perished tires, families posting body armour etc?

Now they are trying to resurrect museum pieces.

[unzippy 3,874]

You know how all the trump fans love to deflect from their idol's many short comings by commenting on Biden's age?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-17/donald-trump-world-war-ii-joe-biden-age-2024-election/102866974

[Blue Manna 195]

1 hour ago, unzippy said:

I don't think any one had an good idea about the Russian strength.

Everyone thought they were armed to teeth with working, up-to-date kit.  Even the Russians thought that!  Then it was discovered lack of maintenance, siphoning of funds etc meant most of their kit was completely unreliable.

Do you not recall all the reports at the beginning of the invasion of perished tires, families posting body armour etc?

Now they are trying to resurrect museum pieces.

How much of that was American propaganda to justify their massive military spend? At the cost of health care and so forth. I think the American military knows the exact strength of the Russian military. It's just in their interest to lie about it.

[BendigoBoy 45]

21 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

...or does it get decimated (true meaning of the word) and reduced to a pile of smoking rubble?

 

No, the true meaning of that word would be killing 10%.

 

You mean annihilated.

[BendigoBoy 45]

Now I've got that wonderful old back and forth between Cato and Scipio in my head...

 

Carthago relenda est!

Carthago delenda est!

Edited September 18 by BendigoBoy
Typo

[Blue Manna 195]

I just don't understand the way some people think.

The USA served it's own interests in WW1 and WW2.

They lied about the middle east.

They lied about south America

They lied about Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia 

They lied about Iraq

They lied about Afghanistan

They lied about the Arab Spring

They are lying to us about Africa

But people seem to think they are telling us the truth about Ukraine?

The US government and military serve their own interests. Treat anything they do with skepticism.

I'm not a fan of trump or Russia. But some people seem to think there's an alternative. There isn't.

[FirstWorldProblems 2,058]

Oh yes.  He’d be MUCH better. 

[Marisawright 10,724]

49 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

I just don't understand the way some people think.

The USA served it's own interests in WW1 and WW2.

They lied about the middle east.

They lied about south America

They lied about Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia 

They lied about Iraq

They lied about Afghanistan

They lied about the Arab Spring

They are lying to us about Africa

But people seem to think they are telling us the truth about Ukraine?

The US government and military serve their own interests. Treat anything they do with skepticism.

I'm not a fan of trump or Russia. But some people seem to think there's an alternative. There isn't.

Why do you think any of us is listening to anyone in America?

[Blue Manna 195]

16 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Why do you think any of us is listening to anyone in America?

You might not think you are. You probably think you are answering independently. You're even probably more independent than most. But from your answers it's still clear you're under the influence of America, it's media and it's marketing. You need to think deeper and look through the propaganda safety net.

[Blue Manna 195]

19 hours ago, BendigoBoy said:

No, the true meaning of that word would be killing 10%.

 

You mean annihilated.

I doubt very much they would kill more than 10% of the population.

[Marisawright 10,724]

1 hour ago, Blue Manna said:

You might not think you are. You probably think you are answering independently. You're even probably more independent than most. But from your answers it's still clear you're under the influence of America, it's media and it's marketing. You need to think deeper and look through the propaganda safety net.

How do you know you haven't been taken in by Russian propaganda?

[unzippy 3,874]

51 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

How do you know you haven't been taken in by Russian propaganda?

How do we know he's not a Russian bot

[Blue Manna 195]

7 hours ago, Marisawright said:

How do you know you haven't been taken in by Russian propaganda?

Explaining why the Russians invaded and being realistic about the outcome of that invasion is not the same as justifying that invasion. I want the best outcome for Ukraine. Do you really think this is it?

[Blue Manna 195]

6 hours ago, unzippy said:

How do we know he's not a Russian bot

My final say on the matter is go and study the Vietnam war for many years, the lies, the deceit, what we were told and what we swallowed.

Then come and tell me about this peace loving white knight that the USA is, and how they have changed since the bad old days. It may give you some perspective.

[Rallyman 4,082]

9 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

My final say on the matter is go and study the Vietnam war for many years, the lies, the deceit, what we were told and what we swallowed.

Then come and tell me about this peace loving white knight that the USA is, and how they have changed since the bad old days. It may give you some perspective.

We can go back less years to Iraq, lies , lies over a million civilians killed and look how the with drawl from Afghanistan left people to deal with the Taliban 

[Marisawright 10,724]

10 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

My final say on the matter is go and study the Vietnam war for many years, the lies, the deceit, what we were told and what we swallowed.

Then come and tell me about this peace loving white knight that the USA is, and how they have changed since the bad old days. It may give you some perspective.

Not one person has posted about America. Your whole premise is based on the idea that Ukraine is doing America's bidding. Don't agree

[InnerVoice 1,021]

If there was a Nobel Prize for spouting nonsense, Trump would definitely be in the running. His latest claim is up there with 'injecting disinfectant' to treat covid.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66928305