Should Donald Trump win Nobel Peace Prize ?

[Blue Manna 183]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

What should they have done, then?   

It's a very difficult situation, but if Russia had invaded the UK, would you have advised the British government to accept the invasion?  

But the question is what should they do now?

I doubt Russia will organise an autumn campaign. Ukraine is hard to move in the autumn because of mud. Winter is the earliest, so there is time. 

They need to negotiate a peace, and they need to concede that Ukraine will lose a lot of territory. They need to accept that an EU Ukraine and a NATO Ukraine is not acceptable to Russia.

If they don't do this, the new russian border will be with Poland by this time next year.

 

[unzippy 3,865]

47 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

But the question is what should they do now?

I doubt Russia will organise an autumn campaign. Ukraine is hard to move in the autumn because of mud. Winter is the earliest, so there is time. 

They need to negotiate a peace, and they need to concede that Ukraine will lose a lot of territory. They need to accept that an EU Ukraine and a NATO Ukraine is not acceptable to Russia.

If they don't do this, the new russian border will be with Poland by this time next year.

 

Need?

[simmo 21,830]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

The Americans really need to put a retirement age on politicians.  I mean, I'm 70 and like to think I still have all my marbles, but we can't deny that our powers do decline as we get older.  High-level politicians need to be at the top of their game, able to work long hours and travel without tiring.  Not many 80-year-olds are up to that.

The bigger threat, as you say, is dementia.   Ronald Reagan's sons have confirmed he had Alzheimer's long before he left office, even though it wasn't officially confirmed until six years later.  His aides covered it up, and it's a matter of debate whether they did that to protect him, or so they could use him to achieve their own ends. 

Is the same happening now?  We don't know.  What I find really scary is that I've listened to many of Trump's speeches -- the full, uncut versions, not the carefully edited ones or the ones where he's on teleprompter -- and to me, he sounds worse than  Biden.  Biden seems sleepy or confused at times but when he's on form -- which he often is --he speaks in complete sentences, makes cogent arguments and sticks to the point.  Trump rambles, forgets what he's talking about, changes the subject abruptly, repeats meaningless slogans, and makes bizarre statements.  If there was a retirement age for politicians, neither would be standing for office and the US would be much better off.

Age is just a number and lived experience is priceless.  Biden however has some serious cognitive impairment.  

[Blue Manna 183]

On 08/09/2023 at 04:37, unzippy said:

Need?

Yes need.

The west has the choice of drawing the border pretty much where it is now, or at Poland.

Ukraine is pretty much spent. Once the russian tanks start rolling, once they break through, why would they stop? They wouldn't. Ukraine has proven itself to be a pain and worth taking completely.

Unless NATO is prepared to put boots on the ground. I doubt that.

[Marisawright 10,699]

49 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

Yes need.

The west has the choice of drawing the border pretty much where it is now, or at Poland.

Ukraine is pretty much spent. Once the russian tanks start rolling, once they break through, why would they stop? They wouldn't. Ukraine has proven itself to be a pain and worth taking completely.

Unless NATO is prepared to put boots on the ground. I doubt that.

Surely Ukraine as a sovereign country is entitled to make its own choice.

[unzippy 3,865]

2 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

Yes need.

The west has the choice of drawing the border pretty much where it is now, or at Poland.

Ukraine is pretty much spent. Once the russian tanks start rolling, once they break through, why would they stop? They wouldn't. Ukraine has proven itself to be a pain and worth taking completely.

Unless NATO is prepared to put boots on the ground. I doubt that.

What Russian tanks?  Current counts suggest they have less than Ukraine.

[Parley 7,787]

Seems Biden is about to be impeached.

[simmo 21,830]

56 minutes ago, Parley said:

Seems Biden is about to be impeached.

About time.

 

[simmo 21,830]

2 hours ago, Parley said:

Seems Biden is about to be impeached.

Knock knock 

Edited September 13 by simmo

[unzippy 3,865]

On 08/09/2023 at 15:06, simmo said:

Age is just a number and lived experience is priceless.  Biden however has some serious cognitive impairment.  

Look at the face on the Fox journalist when he realises what he said

“He has been basically working all through the night, the equivalent of an all-nighter, Eastern time,” Doocy reported from Vietnam on Sunday, while awaiting a press conference from Biden, who landed in Hanoi after attending the G20 summit in New Delhi. “So, he’s probably pretty tired. Pretty jet-lagged.”

But,” he stumbled, seeming to realise that he had just undermined the “Sleepy Joe” narrative, “he should take at least a handful” of questions."

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/fox-doocy-biden-all-nighter-b2409268.html

[FirstWorldProblems 2,057]

It is pretty funny. And given how partisan things are over there I have no doubt conservative media inflate Biden’s cognitive decline…..but declining he patently is.  Is this the man to lead an America in crisis thru 2028?  Surely there must be another in that party who can put up a good fight in the 2024 elections and let Biden enjoy a graceful retirement. 

[unzippy 3,865]

21 hours ago, Parley said:

Seems Biden is about to be impeached.

It's literally tit for tat impeachments.  They've been trying to drag up something - anything - on Biden since he got into office, and this just allows them to dig a little deeper, but a shiny penny says there's sod all of real consequence (outside of the usual politicking) found.

It's a great distraction from the fact that the republicans have literally no policies other than the culture war, and that all of their presidential nominees are weird freaks, though.

 

Saying all that - oops.

 

 

 

[Blue Manna 183]

On 13/09/2023 at 04:29, unzippy said:

What Russian tanks?  Current counts suggest they have less than Ukraine.

I doubt that very very much.

[Blue Manna 183]

On 13/09/2023 at 03:07, Marisawright said:

Surely Ukraine as a sovereign country is entitled to make its own choice.

Sure.

Ukraine gets to choose between losing a large chunk of land to Russia, and not existing.

Let's hope they choose right.

Although in reality America gets to choose.

[Marisawright 10,699]

30 minutes ago, Blue Manna said:

Ukraine gets to choose between losing a large chunk of land to Russia, and not existing.

I didn't say it was an easy decision. But why do you think letting Russia take a large chunk will satisfy Putin?   Putin annexed the Crimea, and Ukraine made a fuss but ultimately decided they'd let him have it, rather than start a war.  All that did was encourage Putin, and he annexed even more of their land. 

Putin wants all of the Soviet Union back.  All that guff about NATO is just a smokescreen.   If Ukraine is just handed over, he won't stop there.  That's why all the neighbouring countries are anxious for Ukraine to keep him at bay.  If Ukraine is defeated, they'll be next.  Echoes of World War II.

Edited September 15 by Marisawright

[Parley 7,787]

The most popular politician ever.

 

[Marisawright 10,699]

1 hour ago, Parley said:

The most popular politician ever.

 

Popular doesn't mean good.

 

[Parley 7,787]

2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Popular doesn't mean good.

 

I can't think of anything he has done that is mad I must admit.

Hasn't invaded any countries or similar.

[unzippy 3,865]

44 minutes ago, Parley said:

I can't think of anything he has done that is mad I must admit.

 

Don't be silly.

[simmo 21,830]

4 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Popular doesn't mean good.

 

The opposite also applies so a moot point.

[Blue Manna 183]

On 15/09/2023 at 03:25, Marisawright said:

I didn't say it was an easy decision. But why do you think letting Russia take a large chunk will satisfy Putin?   Putin annexed the Crimea, and Ukraine made a fuss but ultimately decided they'd let him have it, rather than start a war.  All that did was encourage Putin, and he annexed even more of their land. 

Putin wants all of the Soviet Union back.  All that guff about NATO is just a smokescreen.   If Ukraine is just handed over, he won't stop there.  That's why all the neighbouring countries are anxious for Ukraine to keep him at bay.  If Ukraine is defeated, they'll be next.  Echoes of World War II.

Look at a map Marisa. Ukraine pushes deep into Russian territory. Putin was never going to allow NATO to get that close to Moscow. This is all about NATO. You make Putin to be the aggressor here. But look at the influence America has spread beyond its borders. Look at the conflicts the USA has been involved with over the last 100 years. Putin may just take all of Ukraine anyway. Unless NATO put boots on the ground, Russia pretty much has a free hand. Ukraine won't be a threat for many years.

[InnerVoice 997]

On 15/09/2023 at 12:25, Marisawright said:

I didn't say it was an easy decision. But why do you think letting Russia take a large chunk will satisfy Putin?   Putin annexed the Crimea, and Ukraine made a fuss but ultimately decided they'd let him have it, rather than start a war.  All that did was encourage Putin, and he annexed even more of their land. 

Putin wants all of the Soviet Union back.  All that guff about NATO is just a smokescreen.   If Ukraine is just handed over, he won't stop there.  That's why all the neighbouring countries are anxious for Ukraine to keep him at bay.  If Ukraine is defeated, they'll be next.  Echoes of World War II.

To quote a Ukrainian friend of mine, "In the eyes of Putin, Mother Russia will never feel complete until she is reunited with her (Ukrainian) baby".

They're a very descriptive bunch, the Eastern Europeans!

[Skani 5,382]

20 hours ago, Parley said:

I can't think of anything he has done that is mad I must admit.

Hasn't invaded any countries or similar.

Tried to comprehensively destroy the democratic process in his own country.  He  didn't need to go outside his own borders to create mayhem.

[Skani 5,382]

7 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

Look at a map Marisa. Ukraine pushes deep into Russian territory. Putin was never going to allow NATO to get that close to Moscow. This is all about NATO. 

Latvia is closer to Moscow than Ukraine and is already a member of Nato.  Estonia and Finland are both within spitting distance of St. Petersburg and are both NATO members.  What he has achieved is to strengthen NATO  because  previous non members have now either applied to join (Sweden) or  have sought to increase  their defence links to NATO (Switzerland).

Quote

You make Putin to be the aggressor here

Putin is patently the aggressor here.   Ukraine's minding its own business and Putin's "special military opposition" invades a foreign sovereign country.  That's aggression.

Putin has made it clear that he deeply resents the break up of the old Soviet Union and has a messianic/megalomanic zeal to reconstitute it.  He started with the Crimea in 2014 and was emboldened by the lack of push back from outside Ukraine at that time.   In hindsight that was probably an error which could have averted the greater disaster now happening.   The other post Soviet countries have  no  doubt he would try it on with them if he succeeds in Ukraine.

[Marisawright 10,699]

7 hours ago, Blue Manna said:

Look at a map Marisa. Ukraine pushes deep into Russian territory. 

You're joking aren't you?  What about Latvia?  Estonia? Finland?   What do you mean by "into" anyway? Countries are very rarely neat rectangles.

Edited September 17 by Marisawright