How do people actually get into work in Australia?

[WayneM]

On 14/05/2018 at 10:48, Jon the Hat said:

I wonder whether you should broaden your search to anything vaguely IT related to get your foot in the door?  Even a low paid role is better than eating into your savings for months.

 

[WayneM]

1 hour ago, WayneM said:

 

Sorry, no idea how that post happened! I was reading the thread with interest, put my smartphone in my pocket, and must have pushed some buttons whilst in there.

I struggle with technology!!!

[Brucolino]

On 16/05/2018 at 06:10, Mcguinnessp1968 said:

 

What do you specialise in

I have worked primarily as a Business Systems Analyst, involved in end-to-end IT project lifecycle from analysis, design, development, testing/delivering the solution to stakeholders for user testing, including implementation on production and warranty.

I also have project management & execution experience (including professional certification). I have a fair amount of experience leading technical, development and test teams.  In my previous position I was promoted from entry to senior/specialist level.

The projects I have supported have been both regional and global, involving data migration for major business transformation initiatives, i.e. company divestitures and onboarding projects, multiple new sales operations initiatives etc.

I have mostly been submitting applications for BA & Technical Lead roles. I haven't been at all picky about seniority. I have also tried applying for PM roles, but only for those that specifically state junior/mid-level because most PM positions require a minimum of 8-10years, which I don't have. I reckon I'm being pretty realistic about the roles I'm targeting.

I have received even more rejections since my last post, including from companies that use the same system/interfaces as in my previous job.

I'm now looking into attending IT networking events in Melbourne to try a more direct approach. I've stopped worrying about this whole situation to be honest. I'm trying extremely hard but at the end of the day, what will be will be. There's really nothing more I can do.

I've also started yoga classes, (which I can't really afford!), but they do help

Edited May 18, 2018 by Brucolino

[WayneM]

@Brucolino I emphasise with your position and truly hope you find suitable employment soon. My empathy is based on a fear of being in the same boat this time next year!  You mentioned working for a huge multinational for a number of years, but it sounds like you have only worked for one organisation? If you are applying for jobs in smaller organisations that might cut their cloth accordingly, do you think you may be coming across as overqualified or used to a certain set of perhaps rigid processes?

This thread has been a bit of an eye opener for me, the Australian recruitment market sound rather different to how it works in the UK, and I had figured that the difficulty in filling posts within the software development field was a globally applicable problem.

I have loads of experience recruiting in the UK, primarily looking for Software Developers where getting the right mix of soft and hard skills is really not easy, but I've also recruited for Testers and Analysts similar to Brucolino. How typical I am as a recruiter I don't know, but if you're as good as Brucolino appears to be getting a job with a generic CV in the UK really isn't that hard. Interviews might be tougher, but if your ability and experience is good, which countries or industry sectors you have worked in are next to irrelevant due to issues with supply & demand for talent. I let successful applicants know verbally within an hour after the interview, and they have written offers within a day or two. 

In UK IT, I've only seen the necessity of carefully crafted cover lettings covering points against job descriptions within the public sector which is altogether more slow. I'm surprised to see how different it is in Melbourne; hopefully it all sorts itself out soon. Fingers crossed getting involved in the networking scene will make a difference, it certainly can't hurt.

[Tootsie]

Hello. Well one of the major sticking point here, is the over abundance of IT specialists. Every man and his dog is an IT specialist. Half the universities are full of Indians and Asians doing IT degrees. My niece (an Australian by birth) cannot find a job in IT, despite the fact she is highly qualified. If you need a job desperately for money, then I suggest you take anything going. You may need to take a job in another industry. That will give you experience working in Oz (will look good on the resume) and with one foot in the door, you may be able to network with others.

 

[Brucolino]

@Wayne There are massive differences between the UK and Australia. Even after months I am still adjusting to it all. It doesn't feel like home but I was expecting this when I made the decision to move here. It was never going to be easy and to a certain extent I was prepared for that. I haven't actually met any people here. Back home I knew and spoke to all my neighbours. It doesn't feel the same here. Every place is different and everyone's experience will be different too. That side of things doesn't bother me too much because I'm with my partner and I have some family here too so I'm not alone. I do hope I can expand my social network once I'm in work though.

Regarding the Australian recruitment process, it seems to be heavily focused on who you know. My sisters' partner has been offered a couple of jobs just by speaking to the right people (no interviews) and the IT security specialist I spoke to last weekend was offered his job through a friend, also without an interview. It does seem to be fairly common here. That's not to say I haven't had any interviews. I've had 2 that were extremely positive, but despite telling me they were very impressed and would be setting up a 2^nd round interview, they never followed up. I have read a lot of similar stories. It’s almost as though the jobs aren’t genuinely on offer but they are simply sussing out candidates for potential future hire. I have thought about this especially with small scale businesses because they possibly have plans for future expansion. For one of the interviews I attended I was sent a message about a month later telling me that the process was taking longer than anticipated but that I would be hearing back. They didn’t specify a date. I think in Australia things just tend to move a lot slower.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that almost all the jobs advertised seem to be contract work as opposed to permanent positions. The issue with contract work is that the role descriptions are extremely specific so even though you may come across as a talented/competent, highly experienced professional, you may not tick just 1 of the multiple boxes and that’s enough to deem you unsuitable. I’ve found this to be the case in roles where they’ve asked for Australian Finance industry specific experience. I think a permanent position would be more willing to develop you, having you learn on the job.

Remember to take everything with a grain of salt. This is just my experience and observations so far. Everyone's experience will be different. I still find Australia an exciting place and can't wait to earn some money so that I can afford to do more travelling and see more of it!

@Tootsie yes there are many IT professionals in the market but the fact they are still issuing skilled migration visas for these professions, in theory, indicates there is still a demand. I don't believe there is much point in comparing IT students or qualified graduates to experienced professionals. Skilled migrants typically are both - I'm not competing against graduates and graduates aren't competing against professionals. Back in the UK, most companies offer graduate schemes and internship opportunities. I've seen internship and graduate roles advertised in Australia too so I assume the process is pretty similar here.

[gameover98]

On 18/05/2018 at 14:05, Brucolino said:

I've also started yoga classes, (which I can't really afford!), but they do help

One of the more interesting articles I read on HBR recently pointed to networking via shared experiences. I think the yoga class is a step in the right direction in more ways than you think.

Best of luck. I'm in the same boat, similar background although focusing a lot more on IT infrastructure solutions. I'm still looking and have received a handful of interviews a month ago primarily through people I know, but no offers as of yet. RRV is still stuck as well and I'm outside Australia. Urgh.

 

[JustUs]

 

Hello. Well one of the major sticking point here, is the over abundance of IT specialists. Every man and his dog is an IT specialist. Half the universities are full of Indians and Asians doing IT degrees. My niece (an Australian by birth) cannot find a job in IT, despite the fact she is highly qualified. If you need a job desperately for money, then I suggest you take anything going. You may need to take a job in another industry. That will give you experience working in Oz (will look good on the resume) and with one foot in the door, you may be able to network with others.

 

Tootsie: And you’re making the assumption that Indian and Asian looking people at universities aren’t Australian?

Edited May 23, 2018 by JustUs

[Paul1Perth]

On 23/05/2018 at 11:09, JustUs said:

Tootsie: And you’re making the assumption that Indian and Asian looking people at universities aren’t Australian?

Judging by UWA most of the Asians there can't even speak English. Our workplace is across the road from one of their refectories and I use it daily. They have to employ Chinese ladies behind the counter so the students can order meals. Luckily the ladies can also speak English as well as a few different Asian dialects. 

 

[Paul1Perth]

 

I have worked primarily as a Business Systems Analyst, involved in end-to-end IT project lifecycle from analysis, design, development, testing/delivering the solution to stakeholders for user testing, including implementation on production and warranty.

I also have project management & execution experience (including professional certification). I have a fair amount of experience leading technical, development and test teams.  In my previous position I was promoted from entry to senior/specialist level.

The projects I have supported have been both regional and global, involving data migration for major business transformation initiatives, i.e. company divestitures and onboarding projects, multiple new sales operations initiatives etc.

I have mostly been submitting applications for BA & Technical Lead roles. I haven't been at all picky about seniority. I have also tried applying for PM roles, but only for those that specifically state junior/mid-level because most PM positions require a minimum of 8-10years, which I don't have. I reckon I'm being pretty realistic about the roles I'm targeting.

I have received even more rejections since my last post, including from companies that use the same system/interfaces as in my previous job.

I'm now looking into attending IT networking events in Melbourne to try a more direct approach. I've stopped worrying about this whole situation to be honest. I'm trying extremely hard but at the end of the day, what will be will be. There's really nothing more I can do.

I've also started yoga classes, (which I can't really afford!), but they do help

Have you tried any testing role applications? Could be a way in.

[Paul1Perth]

 

Hello. Well one of the major sticking point here, is the over abundance of IT specialists. Every man and his dog is an IT specialist. Half the universities are full of Indians and Asians doing IT degrees. My niece (an Australian by birth) cannot find a job in IT, despite the fact she is highly qualified. If you need a job desperately for money, then I suggest you take anything going. You may need to take a job in another industry. That will give you experience working in Oz (will look good on the resume) and with one foot in the door, you may be able to network with others.

 

It's one thing having a degree and totally different to being a "specialist". A degree in IT or software or Sytems Engineering is just a stepping stone that might get you an interview.

If you make the interview stage make the effort to dress well, do some research on the company you are applying to and show some enthusiasm.

[Dis]

Hi all,

We're at the halfway point and OH is eligible for his Sub Cat 100 in Feb next year.  Currently looking and applying for jobs (know it's a long shot) from the UK.  It's ok, we're not completely deluded and are fully prepared to get nowhere, but gotta be in it to win it I guess.

Anyhoo, this is kind of a shout out, if anyone willing to give a Pom network tech a go, would be great!?  Currently employed as a hands on internal IT Manager, Senior Network Tech for about 10yrs beforehand.  He has some weird and unusual ways to get around things on occasion, thinks outside the box, a lot at the moment.  Honest (to a fault), hardworking and holds his hands up when he's messed up, royally or otherwise!

Knows he'll prob have to take a step or two back, which he's fully prepared for, just needs a bit of a helping hand.  Will pretty much go where the work is.

Good luck to everybody else currently and soon to be searching, from wherever you are currently based!!!

 

[Brucolino]

19 hours ago, Dis said:

Hi all,

We're at the halfway point and OH is eligible for his Sub Cat 100 in Feb next year.  Currently looking and applying for jobs (know it's a long shot) from the UK.  It's ok, we're not completely deluded and are fully prepared to get nowhere, but gotta be in it to win it I guess.

Anyhoo, this is kind of a shout out, if anyone willing to give a Pom network tech a go, would be great!?  Currently employed as a hands on internal IT Manager, Senior Network Tech for about 10yrs beforehand.  He has some weird and unusual ways to get around things on occasion, thinks outside the box, a lot at the moment.  Honest (to a fault), hardworking and holds his hands up when he's messed up, royally or otherwise!

Knows he'll prob have to take a step or two back, which he's fully prepared for, just needs a bit of a helping hand.  Will pretty much go where the work is.

Good luck to everybody else currently and soon to be searching, from wherever you are currently based!!!

 

Just thought I'd mention that I was applying to multiple positions in Australia while I was still in the UK. I included in the cover letter than I had permanent residency and was in the process of migrating on a permanent basis but did not get a single response. Even when I would send emails to recruiters I wouldn't get any reply back. I think the moment they see a UK mob.# on your CV/application they just bin it.

It's also my understanding that a lot of people who migrate end up moving back home within 1-2years. I met a lot of people like that actually when I was furnishing my flat. Most people selling their furniture on gumtree seemed to be migrants who were moving back. I spoke to them and they were all saying the same thing - that they gave it a go, but that it wasn't for them. I got a few things from an English and Irish couple and then some off New Zealanders moving back.

I was also asked in all my interviews ' are you here permanently? '. My point is - because a lot of people do move back home I think there is a level of prejudice when it comes to migrants out of fear they will(and can) get up and leave at any moment. Clearly though there is a large majority that does stay, including my sister, her partner, and others I have met and interacted with, so everyone's experience is different!

I think a Pom Tech network sounds like a great idea! I've been looking into similar networking events myself on meetup.com

Edited May 24, 2018 by Brucolino

[Brucolino]

My update so far. I went through a contact that my sister's partner knew and he got me an interview for a position straight away. He knows the hiring manager there and gave me some good advice. I attended the interview today which went really well and their HR called me to set up a 2nd round interview for Monday.

I'm staying positive and hopeful. In my experience, knowing the right people really is the way forward.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Brucolino

[Zet01]

17 minutes ago, Brucolino said:

My update so far. I went through a contact that my sister's partner knew and he got me an interview for a position straight away. He knows the hiring manager there and gave me some good advice. I attended the interview today which went really well and their HR called me to set up a 2nd round interview for Monday.

I'm staying positive and hopeful. In my experience, knowing the right people really is the way forward.

That is good news, good luck on your next interview @Brucolino

Edited May 24, 2018 by Zet01

[Paul1Perth]

19 hours ago, Dis said:

Hi all,

We're at the halfway point and OH is eligible for his Sub Cat 100 in Feb next year.  Currently looking and applying for jobs (know it's a long shot) from the UK.  It's ok, we're not completely deluded and are fully prepared to get nowhere, but gotta be in it to win it I guess.

Anyhoo, this is kind of a shout out, if anyone willing to give a Pom network tech a go, would be great!?  Currently employed as a hands on internal IT Manager, Senior Network Tech for about 10yrs beforehand.  He has some weird and unusual ways to get around things on occasion, thinks outside the box, a lot at the moment.  Honest (to a fault), hardworking and holds his hands up when he's messed up, royally or otherwise!

Knows he'll prob have to take a step or two back, which he's fully prepared for, just needs a bit of a helping hand.  Will pretty much go where the work is.

Good luck to everybody else currently and soon to be searching, from wherever you are currently based!!!

 

There are a lot of jobs in Canberra. A security clearance and Aussie citizenship is usually tequired come to think of it though. Canberra is probably my least favourite of all major cities too.

[Paul1Perth]

40 minutes ago, Brucolino said:

My update so far. I went through a contact that my sister's partner knew and he got me an interview for a position straight away. He knows the hiring manager there and gave me some good advice. I attended the interview today which went really well and their HR called me to set up a 2nd round interview for Monday.

I'm staying positive and hopeful. In my experience, knowing the right people really is the way forward.

Good luck and knowing or getting to know the right people always helps. To be fair I found jobs through people I knew back in the UK too, so no different on that score. Hope it goes well.

[Dis]

1 hour ago, Brucolino said:

Just thought I'd mention that I was applying to multiple positions in Australia while I was still in the UK. I included in the cover letter than I had permanent residency and was in the process of migrating on a permanent basis but did not get a single response. Even when I would send emails to recruiters I wouldn't get any reply back. I think the moment they see a UK mob.# on your CV/application they just bin it.

It's also my understanding that a lot of people who migrate end up moving back home within 1-2years. I met a lot of people like that actually when I was furnishing my flat. Most people selling their furniture on gumtree seemed to be migrants who were moving back. I spoke to them and they were all saying the same thing - that they gave it a go, but that it wasn't for them. I got a few things from an English and Irish couple and then some off New Zealanders moving back.

I was also asked in all my interviews ' are you here permanently? '. My point is - because a lot of people do move back home I think there is a level of prejudice when it comes to migrants out of fear they will(and can) get up and leave at any moment. Clearly though there is a large majority that does stay, including my sister, her partner, and others I have met and interacted with, so everyone's experience is different!

I think a Pom Tech network sounds like a great idea! I've been looking into similar networking events myself on meetup.com

Thank you.

Yeah, we get that.  Had the same response when we were over last month from agencies etc.  Left CV's with the lovely ppl we stayed with and they're asking family and friends too, which is really kind of them.  Also got my auntie asking relatives all over OZ, my mum's friends who have family over there too, gotta do what you can.

Kind of got a 5 year plan, so to speak.  I think that's enough time to figure out whether or not we want to actually stay and call OZ home, but don't think it'll be an issue tbh, he loved it - I'm all about the perseverance.  

He has looked @meetup but prob no good til we're over.  He'll keep ploughing on and networking online.

lol@Pom Tech.  Think it's defo an idea.  Now, all we need is for everyone to liaise and create!  

@Your second update post -  - I will keep positive for you, good luck!!

[Dis]

34 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

There are a lot of jobs in Canberra. A security clearance and Aussie citizenship is usually tequired come to think of it though. Canberra is probably my least favourite of all major cities too.

Thank you.  We're looking all over and security clearance is defo a prob.  It's hard enough to get in the UK, got no chance in OZ, catch 22 all over.  

Yeh, seems to be quite a few ppl adverse to Canberra??

[Quoll]

51 minutes ago, Dis said:

Thank you.  We're looking all over and security clearance is defo a prob.  It's hard enough to get in the UK, got no chance in OZ, catch 22 all over.  

Yeh, seems to be quite a few ppl adverse to Canberra??

Don’t dis Canberra but I would think it’s just as tough, if not tougher for IT because far and away the largest employer requires citizenship before they even look at your cv. It’s actually one of the better places in Australia if you have to live anywhere but we like to keep it a secret so we aren’t overwhelmed with whinging Poms (joke!)

[Dis]

We don't mind where we go, it's tough all over.  I just seem to have come across quite a few ppl who have a dislike for Canberra, no idea why hence the ??  Think my prob would be the colder weather, which is one of the reasons for moving from the UK as it affects my ability to properly function.  The warmer climate is great for me though, have no issues - go figure.

I have citizenship (dad's an Aussie) but not in a trade or well paid job, I actually like my job , so kind of reliant on OH for that, unfortunately.

lol - recommendations on cheaper but nicer area's for a 'whinging Pom' in Canberra, just in case?  

[Leighbee98]

3 hours ago, Brucolino said:

.......................................I think the moment they see a UK mob.# on your CV/application they just bin it.
 

https://tollfreeforwarding.com

Just an idea for anyone needing to get a Oz number prior to moving... worth a go

[Red Rose]

Are there ways to make money while looking for a job like temping or driving for uber (prob last resort)? 

[kevsan]

13 hours ago, Dis said:

We don't mind where we go, it's tough all over.  I just seem to have come across quite a few ppl who have a dislike for Canberra, no idea why hence the ??  Think my prob would be the colder weather, which is one of the reasons for moving from the UK as it affects my ability to properly function.  The warmer climate is great for me though, have no issues - go figure.

I have citizenship (dad's an Aussie) but not in a trade or well paid job, I actually like my job , so kind of reliant on OH for that, unfortunately.

lol - recommendations on cheaper but nicer area's for a 'whinging Pom' in Canberra, just in case?  

Hi - whats your timeline and preferred destination?

I work as a Senior PM based out of melbourne, but we are always looking for networking techs at all levels, and i work closely with the hiring manager for South Pac. My current project goes until the end of the year and i have 4 network techs on my project so the rest of the group is a bit overrun - PM me with more details, if your timelines Feb 2019 its probably a bit early for us, but i can take a look.

[Dis]

20 hours ago, kevsan said:

Hi - whats your timeline and preferred destination?

I work as a Senior PM based out of melbourne, but we are always looking for networking techs at all levels, and i work closely with the hiring manager for South Pac. My current project goes until the end of the year and i have 4 network techs on my project so the rest of the group is a bit overrun - PM me with more details, if your timelines Feb 2019 its probably a bit early for us, but i can take a look.

Hi Kevsan,

WOW - was very surprised to read this, thank you so much, very kind of you and much appreciated  

We weren't planning on moving over until later next year, when my son finishes his GCSE's, but we can be over in 6-8 weeks if need be.

We were just going to head to Melbourne as a base and take it from there tbh, go wherever the work is then work around that, so fairly flexible on location.

I'll PM you with his CV asap, think he just needs to add a couple of things to it.  If there's anything more specific you require, pls let me know.

Thank you