Should we, shouldn't we...

[Sharpeys]

Hi everyone. Not a new topic by any means, but would appreciate any views you may have...My wife and I are thinking about a move to Oz using CV143. We pass the eligibility test etc, our daughter is a citizen near Perth, having been out there nearly 10 years. We've weighed up the costs as best we can, and were thinking it would take around 2.5.to 3 years. However, with all the talk these days of immigration cuts, costs rising, and the Oz 2018 budget looming, are the times going to increase drastically? I've seen mention of 6 to 10 years waiting times, and the AOS going up next April anyway. We are both in our late 60's, fairly healthy, I've a new hip that is 11 years old, and my wife is on medication for a treatable condition, but physically fit. 

We know it is a risk, but wondered what you good people might think.

Thanks in advance

[Marisawright]

All I can offer is a cautionary tale.  I know a woman, Carol,  who came out to Australia on the parent visa.    I first met her when they were waiting for the visa, but visiting often - every time she was in Australia, she'd come along to the same dance class as me.   The last time I saw her, she said to me, "I never thought I'd say it, but there's more to life than grandchildren".  

Carol was the one who was always desperate to move to Australia, to be close to her daughter and the grandkids.  Her husband was more cautious about it, because they had such a good life in the UK, but he went along with it.  Now she's discovering it's not what she expected.   They used to visit once a year for two or three months, they stayed with the daughter, did the school run, babysat the kids, had weekend outings etc.   That was what she dreamed of.

Now the reality.  Unfortunately, because the visa cost so much, they couldn't afford to buy a home close to the daughter.  They have a small flat in another suburb, too far away to do the school run.  They do babysit occasionally, but the kids are older now, so they have sport on the weekends and other activities with their friends.  Bottom line is that she sees less of the grandkids now than when they used to do their annual trip!

She's now sorry she gave up her beautiful home (and gave away or sold so many nice things to save on shipping). She misses all her friends.  She realises now that she expected her daughter's family to fill the gap left by friends -- and that was never realistic, they are a young family with their own lives to lead. She's having to rebuild her whole life, make new friends, change her lifestyle...  

The silly thing is that the money they spent on the visa would have paid for an annual visit (either for them to Oz or the family to the UK) for the rest of their lives, so she wishes she had settled for that.

[can1983]

42 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

All I can offer is a cautionary tale.  I know a woman, Carol,  who came out to Australia on the parent visa.    I first met her when they were waiting for the visa, but visiting often - every time she was in Australia, she'd come along to the same dance class as me.   The last time I saw her, she said to me, "I never thought I'd say it, but there's more to life than grandchildren".  

Carol was the one who was always desperate to move to Australia, to be close to her daughter and the grandkids.  Her husband was more cautious about it, because they had such a good life in the UK, but he went along with it.  Now she's discovering it's not what she expected.   They used to visit once a year for two or three months, they stayed with the daughter, did the school run, babysat the kids, had weekend outings etc.   That was what she dreamed of.

Now the reality.  Unfortunately, because the visa cost so much, they couldn't afford to buy a home close to the daughter.  They have a small flat in another suburb, too far away to do the school run.  They do babysit occasionally, but the kids are older now, so they have sport on the weekends and other activities with their friends.  Bottom line is that she sees less of the grandkids now than when they used to do their annual trip!

She's now sorry she gave up her beautiful home (and gave away or sold so many nice things to save on shipping). She misses all her friends.  She realises now that she expected her daughter's family to fill the gap left by friends -- and that was never realistic, they are a young family with their own lives to lead. She's having to rebuild her whole life, make new friends, change her lifestyle...  

The silly thing is that the money they spent on the visa would have paid for an annual visit (either for them to Oz or the family to the UK) for the rest of their lives, so she wishes she had settled for that.

But the flipside to that is you can't visit for ever. Medicals are required for each and every trip once you reach 75 and there would come a time when you were unable to travel such a long way for health reasons.

[Booma]

9 hours ago, Sharpeys said:

Hi everyone. Not a new topic by any means, but would appreciate any views you may have...My wife and I are thinking about a move to Oz using CV143. We pass the eligibility test etc, our daughter is a citizen near Perth, having been out there nearly 10 years. We've weighed up the costs as best we can, and were thinking it would take around 2.5.to 3 years. However, with all the talk these days of immigration cuts, costs rising, and the Oz 2018 budget looming, are the times going to increase drastically? I've seen mention of 6 to 10 years waiting times, and the AOS going up next April anyway. We are both in our late 60's, fairly healthy, I've a new hip that is 11 years old, and my wife is on medication for a treatable condition, but physically fit. 

We know it is a risk, but wondered what you good people might think.

Thanks in advance

My parents just decided to apply now because they are worried about it getting harder and harder to get in to oz and they don't want to miss out on there chance. They love oz and found it very hard to leave last time they visited. There is a bunch of other parents posting in a thread on this site that would probably be helpful to you. They tend to stick to there main thread and don't tend to come out of it to post on any other threads much that I've seen.

It was interesting what Marisa said about her friend. My parents aren't the type who would let having to drive somewhere stop them from doing the school run if they wanted to do it and they would come to sports events when our boys are old enough to do sport and they would adapt to doing different things with the children and us as our family changed. If you are like my parents I can't see why it wouldn't work. But if you are set in your ways and want the family to revolve around doing the same things year after year that they do when the children are small it might not work out so well.

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Booma said:

My parents just decided to apply now because they are worried about it getting harder and harder to get in to oz and they don't want to miss out on there chance. They love oz and found it very hard to leave last time they visited. There is a bunch of other parents posting in a thread on this site that would probably be helpful to you. They tend to stick to there main thread and don't tend to come out of it to post on any other threads much that I've seen.

It was interesting what Marisa said about her friend. My parents aren't the type who would let having to drive somewhere stop them from doing the school run if they wanted to do it and they would come to sports events when our boys are old enough to do sport and they would adapt to doing different things with the children and us as our family changed. If you are like my parents I can't see why it wouldn't work. But if you are set in your ways and want the family to revolve around doing the same things year after year that they do when the children are small it might not work out so well.

Would they still do the school run if it took them well over an hour to get to your house every morning?  That's the situation Carol was in owing to the rise in house prices in Sydney.  

I also think different people have different attitudes. You sound like the kind of person who would be keen to have their parents around every weekend, participating in your family activities - and i assume your oh is equally keen. Reading between the lines, i suspect Carol's daughter (or her husband) don't want the grandparents living in their pocket.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Marisawright

[Marisawright]

3 hours ago, can1983 said:

But the flipside to that is you can't visit for ever. Medicals are required for each and every trip once you reach 75 and there would come a time when you were unable to travel such a long way for health reasons.

Very true.  And there's no guarantee the family would make the effort to visit them, even if they paid.  

I'm not saying parents shouldn't make the move.  I'm just pointing out the other side of the coin, which is something I never see mentioned here.

[VERYSTORMY]

It is a tough one and I have met parents who have made the move and are very happy, but also some who very much regretted it and now felt trapped and disappointed as the kids and grandkids they made the move for aren't that interested in spending the time with them they expected. 

The current wait times for a CPV are three to four years. 

If you do decide to pursue it further, I would take independent financial advice as well as not only is the visa expensive at over $120k for two of you, but there are other implications on things such as pensions. 

[ramot]

As a parent who's children/grandchildren live on the other side of the world you have to decide what is the best thing to do for the long term, not just the desire to to be with your small grandchildren. They grow up fast and their lives become very busy.

If you move here you have to be prepared to establish your own life and not be dependent on your children. 

We, I know,  don't fit the norm, as we already live in Oz after  retiring here 15 years ago. We left our 3 children behind in UK, no grandchildren then. Since then 2 of ours moved here, but our only grandchildren are in UK.

its a fact of life that as you get older it does help if you have any of your children living near you. Even though we feel fairly fit, we have both had health problems recently and I would be lying if I didn't say it was lovely having their back up. Our son drove straight up when my husband was rushed to hospital and made sure we were ok, it was nice to be looked after for a change!

Reference the long haul flying, again it does get harder when you get older and I say that as someone who has flown long haul more times than I can remember as my husband was a pilot. Insurance costs also become more expensive. We are having a year off going to UK this year to see our son and grandchildren, but we accept they live in UK, where we don't want to live, but we do have the back up of 2 of ours here. We see lots of our UK family as we usually go for 3 months every year,  we face time regularly and really feel part of their lives, but to be honest they carry on with their lives when we visit even though we are only there for a short time.

We all have to make our own decisions, if you only have one child or all are here, you then it's probably harder to live apart, than if you have children in both countries.

Ps as VS says above, you have to be realistic about how far your money will go. When we came there were $3 to the pound!! the exchange rate has fluctuated lots since and the cost of living has really risen. If you are on a fixed income the weak pound  can hit hard over time, so you must consider that.

Edited April 26, 2018 by ramot

[Ray and Geri]

12 hours ago, Sharpeys said:

Hi everyone. Not a new topic by any means, but would appreciate any views you may have...My wife and I are thinking about a move to Oz using CV143. We pass the eligibility test etc, our daughter is a citizen near Perth, having been out there nearly 10 years. We've weighed up the costs as best we can, and were thinking it would take around 2.5.to 3 years. However, with all the talk these days of immigration cuts, costs rising, and the Oz 2018 budget looming, are the times going to increase drastically? I've seen mention of 6 to 10 years waiting times, and the AOS going up next April anyway. We are both in our late 60's, fairly healthy, I've a new hip that is 11 years old, and my wife is on medication for a treatable condition, but physically fit. 

We know it is a risk, but wondered what you good people might think.

Thanks in advance

Why don't you apply and see how things pan out....It's going to be at least 3 years till you have to make the decision to go ahead anyway. You would loose the £2500 ish it costs to submit your application but that's not much when you look at the total cost of moving out to Oz...... and at least you will be " in the waiting room " ( where we have been for the last 3 years ).  

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, can1983 said:

But the flipside to that is you can't visit for ever. Medicals are required for each and every trip once you reach 75 and there would come a time when you were unable to travel such a long way for health reasons.

Hi Can, could you please provide a link for this medical point?  Does it apply to ETA?

[Sharpeys]

17 hours ago, Marisawright said:

All I can offer is a cautionary tale.  I know a woman, Carol,  who came out to Australia on the parent visa.    I first met her when they were waiting for the visa, but visiting often - every time she was in Australia, she'd come along to the same dance class as me.   The last time I saw her, she said to me, "I never thought I'd say it, but there's more to life than grandchildren".  

Carol was the one who was always desperate to move to Australia, to be close to her daughter and the grandkids.  Her husband was more cautious about it, because they had such a good life in the UK, but he went along with it.  Now she's discovering it's not what she expected.   They used to visit once a year for two or three months, they stayed with the daughter, did the school run, babysat the kids, had weekend outings etc.   That was what she dreamed of.

Now the reality.  Unfortunately, because the visa cost so much, they couldn't afford to buy a home close to the daughter.  They have a small flat in another suburb, too far away to do the school run.  They do babysit occasionally, but the kids are older now, so they have sport on the weekends and other activities with their friends.  Bottom line is that she sees less of the grandkids now than when they used to do their annual trip!

She's now sorry she gave up her beautiful home (and gave away or sold so many nice things to save on shipping). She misses all her friends.  She realises now that she expected her daughter's family to fill the gap left by friends -- and that was never realistic, they are a young family with their own lives to lead. She's having to rebuild her whole life, make new friends, change her lifestyle...  

The silly thing is that the money they spent on the visa would have paid for an annual visit (either for them to Oz or the family to the UK) for the rest of their lives, so she wishes she had settled for that.

Yes I can see the picture here....its a massive step to take. Holidays are great, but getting there, knowing no-one other than your immediate family, not knowing where anything is, the financial outlay...thanks for the reply. Increases our concerns a bit..

[Sharpeys]

11 hours ago, Ray and Geri said:

Why don't you apply and see how things pan out....It's going to be at least 3 years till you have to make the decision to go ahead anyway. You would loose the £2500 ish it costs to submit your application but that's not much when you look at the total cost of moving out to Oz...... and at least you will be " in the waiting room " ( where we have been for the last 3 years ).  

There's two things there that concern me....the three years or more ? before making a decision, and losing that amount of money....we are talking to an agent on Monday with a lot of questions, so we'll see how that and out...thanks for responding guys.Appreciated.

[Sharpeys]

10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Hi Can, could you please provide a link for this medical point?  Does it apply to ETA?

Again, very good point. Age decrees that travelling such a distance will get harder, wasn't aware re the 75 check ups though. Thanks. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sharpeys said:

There's two things there that concern me....the three years or more ? before making a decision, and losing that amount of money....we are talking to an agent on Monday with a lot of questions, so we'll see how that pans out...thanks for responding guys.Appreciated.

 

[Perthbum]

Being honest, at your age it is IMO a big mistake, thats only my opinion of course. I suffered badly from the heat and at your age I could imagine if you are not used to it it could become unbearable.

[ali]

19 hours ago, can1983 said:

But the flipside to that is you can't visit for ever. Medicals are required for each and every trip once you reach 75 and there would come a time when you were unable to travel such a long way for health reasons.

My dad never need a medical to visit, nor my friends father who is in his 80's

[ali]

1 hour ago, Perthbum said:

Being honest, at your age it is IMO a big mistake, thats only my opinion of course. I suffered badly from the heat and at your age I could imagine if you are not used to it it could become unbearable.

I think it's something to consider, but everyone is different - my father in law loves the heat and he's in his mid 70's

[Tulip1]

20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

All I can offer is a cautionary tale.  I know a woman, Carol,  who came out to Australia on the parent visa.    I first met her when they were waiting for the visa, but visiting often - every time she was in Australia, she'd come along to the same dance class as me.   The last time I saw her, she said to me, "I never thought I'd say it, but there's more to life than grandchildren".  

Carol was the one who was always desperate to move to Australia, to be close to her daughter and the grandkids.  Her husband was more cautious about it, because they had such a good life in the UK, but he went along with it.  Now she's discovering it's not what she expected.   They used to visit once a year for two or three months, they stayed with the daughter, did the school run, babysat the kids, had weekend outings etc.   That was what she dreamed of.

Now the reality.  Unfortunately, because the visa cost so much, they couldn't afford to buy a home close to the daughter.  They have a small flat in another suburb, too far away to do the school run.  They do babysit occasionally, but the kids are older now, so they have sport on the weekends and other activities with their friends.  Bottom line is that she sees less of the grandkids now than when they used to do their annual trip!

She's now sorry she gave up her beautiful home (and gave away or sold so many nice things to save on shipping). She misses all her friends.  She realises now that she expected her daughter's family to fill the gap left by friends -- and that was never realistic, they are a young family with their own lives to lead. She's having to rebuild her whole life, make new friends, change her lifestyle...  

The silly thing is that the money they spent on the visa would have paid for an annual visit (either for them to Oz or the family to the UK) for the rest of their lives, so she wishes she had settled for that.

What a great read, I expect many parents end up like this, especially those who spend their live savings getting a visa, real food for thought.

[Tulip1]

20 hours ago, can1983 said:

But the flipside to that is you can't visit for ever. Medicals are required for each and every trip once you reach 75 and there would come a time when you were unable to travel such a long way for health reasons.

Yes but when that time comes you'll likely to be able to do very little else too, including fun things with your family.  Are medicals required for a holiday over 75? 

[Tulip1]

20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

All I can offer is a cautionary tale.  I know a woman, Carol,  who came out to Australia on the parent visa.    I first met her when they were waiting for the visa, but visiting often - every time she was in Australia, she'd come along to the same dance class as me.   The last time I saw her, she said to me, "I never thought I'd say it, but there's more to life than grandchildren".  

Carol was the one who was always desperate to move to Australia, to be close to her daughter and the grandkids.  Her husband was more cautious about it, because they had such a good life in the UK, but he went along with it.  Now she's discovering it's not what she expected.   They used to visit once a year for two or three months, they stayed with the daughter, did the school run, babysat the kids, had weekend outings etc.   That was what she dreamed of.

Now the reality.  Unfortunately, because the visa cost so much, they couldn't afford to buy a home close to the daughter.  They have a small flat in another suburb, too far away to do the school run.  They do babysit occasionally, but the kids are older now, so they have sport on the weekends and other activities with their friends.  Bottom line is that she sees less of the grandkids now than when they used to do their annual trip!

She's now sorry she gave up her beautiful home (and gave away or sold so many nice things to save on shipping). She misses all her friends.  She realises now that she expected her daughter's family to fill the gap left by friends -- and that was never realistic, they are a young family with their own lives to lead. She's having to rebuild her whole life, make new friends, change her lifestyle...  

The silly thing is that the money they spent on the visa would have paid for an annual visit (either for them to Oz or the family to the UK) for the rest of their lives, so she wishes she had settled for that.

Another thing you mentioned which is so true. You said the kids were now older and busy doing their things and that's exactly what happens. Grandparents will move over there and the little grandkids will give such joy. It's likely however when they turn into teenagers they will not be spending time with the grandparents, nothing personal against the grandparents, it's just what happens, it's not cool hanging out with old people when you're a teenager. 

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, Sharpeys said:

There's two things there that concern me....the three years or more ? before making a decision, and losing that amount of money....we are talking to an agent on Monday with a lot of questions, so we'll see how that and out...thanks for responding guys.Appreciated.

When you lodge the application you only pay a small amount, a few thousand. You don't pay the rest until the end so you can change your mind at any time. Sure you'd lose a few thousand but not tens of thousands 

[Tulip1]

46 minutes ago, ali said:

My dad never need a medical to visit, nor my friends father who is in his 80's

Can1983, please explain the over 75's medical thing you've mentioned as I'm quite sure it's not correct 

[can1983]

39 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

Can1983, please explain the over 75's medical thing you've mentioned as I'm quite sure it's not correct 

just checked online, maybe they've got rid of it because the links are all old and no longer on the government sites. Sorry if ive got this wrong. Certainly in 2013 when my grandparents were looking at coming for my wedding it was a requirement

[Gbye grey sky]

On 26/04/2018 at 04:39, Sharpeys said:

Hi everyone. Not a new topic by any means, but would appreciate any views you may have...My wife and I are thinking about a move to Oz using CV143. We pass the eligibility test etc, our daughter is a citizen near Perth, having been out there nearly 10 years. We've weighed up the costs as best we can, and were thinking it would take around 2.5.to 3 years. However, with all the talk these days of immigration cuts, costs rising, and the Oz 2018 budget looming, are the times going to increase drastically? I've seen mention of 6 to 10 years waiting times, and the AOS going up next April anyway. We are both in our late 60's, fairly healthy, I've a new hip that is 11 years old, and my wife is on medication for a treatable condition, but physically fit. 

We know it is a risk, but wondered what you good people might think.

Thanks in advance

I am not sure it is a good idea for grandparents to follow their children/grandchildren.  Fair enough if you feel the Australian lifestyle may suit you better than your UK one but if you seriously doubt that then stick to visits which of course should be reciprocal.

I moved here (Queensland in my case) on a partner visa as a 54 year old 3 years ago having never lived outside SE England.  I have since opted to retire early.  I knew nobody here and though I am generally quite a self-sufficient person I have, by my standards, thrown myself into Oz life in many ways and am slowly building a network of acquaintances, some of whom may well become good friends in the future.  

But I was fully committed to the move and have never had any doubts or second thoughts.  I think if you are going to make a good life for yourself as an older immigrant it is vital that you pursue and develop your own interests first and foremost.  If you base your life here around your family then you will not develop any other networks.  You then increase the risk of loneliness and isolation in old age.

[Toots]

2 hours ago, ali said:

I think it's something to consider, but everyone is different - my father in law loves the heat and he's in his mid 70's

My Mum coped better in the summer heat than I did.

[ramot]

1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

I am not sure it is a good idea for grandparents to follow their children/grandchildren.  Fair enough if you feel the Australian lifestyle may suit you better than your UK one but if you seriously doubt that then stick to visits which of course should be reciprocal.

 

 

I completely agree with the above comment. As an expat before retiring we have probably known more people than most who have faced the dilemma of where to move to on retirement. Most like us did what they wanted to rather than move close to family.

All our three were in UK then, so we could have gone back to our old village, and of course all our three were living in different places and least 2/3 hours away, and not close to each other. So it could have made sense to move near the married one? Moving to an area we didn't know, settling there, to be possibly faced with our son then moving for a new job, and us saying "but we moved here for you!!!"

So we did what we wanted to do and moved to Australia, originally for a few years for an adventure.

I think parents must consider that if they do move here that their children might move so they have another decision to make. I doubt many consider that.