Assurance of Support

[Amy Shiraz]

I believe the Assurance of Support is increasing in April 2019 from $14,000 to $21,000 per couple.  Can someone tell me at the time of the increase in April 2019,  how much two Assurers should be earning to cover two adults migrating please?  Difficult to find the answer.   I would be interested to know the earnings required for one Assurer to cover two adults migrating too, but think this may be too high in our case.

[Skani]

This newspaper article quotes the following figures:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/13/australia-doubles-financial-requirement-for-families-of-new-migrants

Quote

For example, if a couple in Australia wants to act as financial backers for their parents, they will need to earn a combined $115,475 a year, instead of $45,185. A single person who wants to vouch for their parents will need to earn $86,606, rather than $45,185.40.

 

[Amy Shiraz]

Thank you for the Guardian article Skani.  I am shocked to find out that the Government has passed this already and that it may increase again next year.  My son, my only child, may just earn enough, but I believe he has to have been at that level for three years and he probably wasn't earning that much when first there.  Seems a heartless Government.  I understand they need to control immigration, but parents!  Very sad.

[Marisawright]

Speaking as a migrant who moved to Australia and left her family behind, we're the heartless ones, not the government.   When we migrate, we know (or should know) that it's very difficult to bring parents or other family over to Australia - Australia makes it clear that it wants working migrants with particular skills, and that's always been the case. We can't pretend we didn't know the implications when we did it.

If being together is so important to you all as a family, then there's always the option that your son could move back to the UK...

Edited April 15, 2018 by Marisawright

[ramot]

I think you are missing the whole point about the change to the AOS. The point is that the increase is a retrospective change, to a visa that is in place for parents to migrate.

Potential parent immigrants who have already lodged and paid for the application that has been accepted, and Centrelink? Has decided to change the rules retrospectively and instantly for them It is morally wrong and borders on dishonest. 

The CPV conditions were previously very clear, so parents applied understanding the conditions. we are one of them. Like many we applied having weighed everything up. The amount needed previously was about $45,000, it's now $117,000, that is some increase. 

no one can complain if the government decides that from a certain date these are the conditions for new applicants, but how can you justify retrospective changes

Have to close as running out of battery, but I am so angry about it. Not nice when a change like this can affect your life. And don't tell us that we knew bringing parents over was difficult, it wasn't if you were eligible, you could apply for a visa, it was allowed!!!

Ps it's also daft that the parents income/assets can't be included as we are far more wealthy than our children.

Edited April 15, 2018 by ramot

[Amy Shiraz]

Completely understand your anger and you have our total sympathy.    I have only been sorting through the maze of moving to Australia for the last couple of months and we are eligible but, as you say, you need to weigh up everything and it is exhausting.  It is no doubt devastating for you - do hope there is a way around it.   It had crossed our minds, however, that the visa costs (already huge) may increase mid application, as you would only have paid the deposit until the very end of the process. 

[Amy Shiraz]

Take your point Marisa, but sadly your suggestion not an option or ever likely to be.

[VERYSTORMY]

7 hours ago, Amy Shiraz said:

Thank you for the Guardian article Skani.  I am shocked to find out that the Government has passed this already and that it may increase again next year.  My son, my only child, may just earn enough, but I believe he has to have been at that level for three years and he probably wasn't earning that much when first there.  Seems a heartless Government.  I understand they need to control immigration, but parents!  Very sad.

How is it heartless? Your son took the decision to leave you behind. His choice. 

See it from the Oz governments point of view. The cost of a double hip replacement (a common thing for older people) will cost more than the total income from visa fees yet people get it on Medicare having never paid into the system in tax  so are leaching from the taxpayers  

From recent comments from government ministers I suspect either fees wil rise dramatically- many time the current or the visa will be abolished. 

[Amy Shiraz]

I don't think paying $110,000 for a visa + paying for our own private health care will constitute us robbing the Government.  This is backed up by the Assurance from our son.  I'm sure that there are many healthy pensioners who never have cause to impinge on the health system, as we do not here, and therefore the Government must gain from people like us.

[Tulip1]

The statistics say otherwise Amy. It seems overall parent visa applicants cost the government more than they put in. I guess you have to consider not only things like hip replacements/heart issues (stents/bypass are not uncommon in the elderly, particularly stents) but you may one day end up in a nursing home and if you can't pay for it as a PR the state will have to. 

[Amy Shiraz]

Yes see your point.  We will take out private health care.  We are healthy at mo - dare I say - but you never know what's ahead.

[ramot]

8 hours ago, Amy Shiraz said:

Completely understand your anger and you have our total sympathy.    I have only been sorting through the maze of moving to Australia for the last couple of months and we are eligible but, as you say, you need to weigh up everything and it is exhausting.  It is no doubt devastating for you - do hope there is a way around it.   It had crossed our minds, however, that the visa costs (already huge) may increase mid application, as you would only have paid the deposit until the very end of the process. 

I am angry on behalf of everyone who is affected by the retrospective change to the AOS. We are ok, covered by the amount as we have 2 children in Oz, and also because we have lived here for 15 years on an ongoing self funded retirement visa, that was stopped for new applicants in 2005, we own our house here so could withdraw our application if it was necessary. We applied for the CPV because we were now eligible and wanted the security of PR, because even though we are 'secure!' with our visa you can't trust the government, as has just been proved, we have seen so many underhand changes to visas. If you are new to applying for a visa you aren't perhaps aware of previous retrospective changes.

I'm sure aged parents cost the country as they age, but surely the point is that this visa exists for them to come here, so criticise the government rather than parents who wish to come here on the visa. We all have a right to apply for any visa that is in place that we are eligible for. You could argue that people on a 2/4 year 457 visa who get sick cost Medicare more than they have paid for.

As I wrote before, of course governments have the right to make changes to the immigration rules, just do it fairly and not retrospectively.

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by ramot

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, ramot said:

I think you are missing the whole point about the change to the AOS...

....And don't tell us that we knew bringing parents over was difficult, it wasn't if you were eligible, you could apply for a visa, it was allowed!!!

Apologies, I missed that point because I wasn't aware of it.  Yes, I agree it's unconscionable that they've decided to make this retrospective.  

 

[Marisawright]

9 hours ago, Amy Shiraz said:

I don't think paying $110,000 for a visa + paying for our own private health care will constitute us robbing the Government.  This is backed up by the Assurance from our son.  I'm sure that there are many healthy pensioners who never have cause to impinge on the health system, as we do not here, and therefore the Government must gain from people like us.

But, Amy, the point is that if you come to Australia on a parent visa, you're going to die in Australia.   Let's hope it's many many years away yet, but it's going to happen - you can't live forever!   So you can't avoid impinging on the health system.

 If the government is lucky, you'll be in perfect health right up till the last moment, and drop dead of a heart attack - but how many elderly people do you know who achieved that?  Most elderly people develop ailments like high blood pressure, heart problems, arthritis, osteoporosis, etc. All those ailments require prescriptions for medicine which are subsidised by the government, not private insurance, and you could need them for many years (statins cost the government about $1 billion a year, for instance).  Then at the end of life, you've got to die of something - cancer, dementia, stroke - all of which can involve intensive health treatment, hospitalisation, perhaps long-term care. 

So you see, when the government approves a parent visa, they know it's highly likely they'll be up for a big bill towards the end of your life.  $110,000 probably won't even cover it.

The government can't force parent visa holders to hold private health insurance for the rest of their lives.  It's expensive, and besides (unlike the UK) it never covers the whole cost of treatment.   So you might find, in your latter years as funds decline, that you can't opt to be treated by private doctors because you can't afford the excess.   For instance, I had a spinal fusion which cost $35,000 - insurance covered only $25,000 of that.  My friend's dad (who's 85) recently had the same op under Medicare because he couldn't afford the excess - he had it done within two months and it didn't cost him a cent (but of course, it cost the taxpayer).

I say all this as someone who turns 65 this year, so don't think I'm being age-ist. I'm just being realistic.

[Amy Shiraz]

Glad you & your family will be ok Ramot. If you have time to explain I would be interested in what's happened previously.  We are quite new to this but I am trying to glean as much info as possible before making a decision.  You are obviously knowledgeable.  We were thinking of applying for an 804 originally, but there are several drawbacks & are now thinking of an 864.  Your views would be very much appreciated if you can spare the time.  

[Tulip1]

20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Speaking as a migrant who moved to Australia and left her family behind, we're the heartless ones, not the government.   When we migrate, we know (or should know) that it's very difficult to bring parents or other family over to Australia - Australia makes it clear that it wants working migrants with particular skills, and that's always been the case. We can't pretend we didn't know the implications when we did it.

If being together is so important to you all as a family, then there's always the option that your son could move back to the UK...

So perfectly worded. For every parent out there trying to get a visa it is your child that has left you behind to start a new life. I am one of them and I have always fully supported my children in their journey and their happiness is the most important thing to me but it still doesn't make it easy.  Apart from an odd exception, every child who moves to the other side of the world must know their parents will be devastated. Sure they will support them and be genuinely happy for them but they will still hurt and their heart will ache. Once the grandchildren arrive it will be even harder. I sometimes feel a bit sad when I read comments on here about parents struggling to work out if they can afford to go, often having to sell their home to pay for the visa and saying things like our life is on hold until we get there.  I've read on here a few times people who've made that move say you have to be a tad selfish to do it and in part that may be true. Do I think children shouldn't do it? Absolutely not. It's their life and they have every right to do what they want with it. We don't own our children, we raise them to be happy, descent adults with minds and choices of their own and good on them I say.  One things for sure though, it's not the fault of the Australian Government.

 

[Marisawright]

1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

So perfectly worded. For every parent out there trying to get a visa it is your child that has left you behind to start a new life. I am one of them and I have always fully supported my children in their journey and their happiness is the most important thing to me but it still doesn't make it easy.  Apart from an odd exception, every child who moves to the other side of the world must know their parents will be devastated. 

Actually Tulip, no they don't know at all.  Once the child grows up, the parent needs the child far more than the child needs the parent.

If the parents are devastated at the child leaving, then I think they need to let the kids know, not expect them to guess.

When I left home, I had NO idea that my mother was upset at my leaving.  None.  I thought she'd be glad to see the back of us kids, so she was free to go out and enjoy herself instead of being stuck in the kitchen.   I had no inkling that mothers fall in love with their babies even more deeply than men and women fall in love. Nobody told me, and it's not something you "just know".  I was never lucky enough to have kids so I had no idea at all, until my fifties when some of my friends started becoming "empty nesters", and I saw what trauma it put them through. I was utterly astonished.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Marisawright

[ramot]

3 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

So perfectly worded. For every parent out there trying to get a visa it is your child that has left you behind to start a new life. I am one of them and I have always fully supported my children in their journey and their happiness is the most important thing to me but it still doesn't make it easy.  Apart from an odd exception, every child who moves to the other side of the world must know their parents will be devastated. Sure they will support them and be genuinely happy for them but they will still hurt and their heart will ache. Once the grandchildren arrive it will be even harder. I sometimes feel a bit sad when I read comments on here about parents struggling to work out if they can afford to go, often having to sell their home to pay for the visa and saying things like our life is on hold until we get there.  I've read on here a few times people who've made that move say you have to be a tad selfish to do it and in part that may be true. Do I think children shouldn't do it? Absolutely not. It's their life and they have every right to do what they want with it. We don't own our children, we raise them to be happy, descent adults with minds and choices of their own and good on them I say.  One things for sure though, it's not the fault of the Australian Government.

 

Actually we the parents came to Australia first and our 3 children were in UK. We were the selfish ones!? We were up to new experiences in retirement. We had been expats before retiring here, and because of our lifestyle we know a lot of other parents who did the same as us. Our. Children were very independent again because of having lived overseas and fully supported our move. Unexpectedly 2 of ours followed us to Oz which is why we have applied for the CPV. I genuinely can't say if we would ever move back to UK if 2 hadn't followed us, but I doubt it as our lives are here, and we know so many in the same situation as us who cope.

We obviously don't fit your mold as our grandchildren are in UK with our oldest son, love them to pieces, we see them most years and face time lots, but I don't have this overwhelming need to live near them. 

 

[Tulip1]

6 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Actually Tulip, no they don't know at all.  Once the child grows up, the parent needs the child far more than the child needs the parent.

If the parents are devastated at the child leaving, then I think they need to let the kids know, not expect them to guess.

When I left home, I had NO idea that my mother was upset at my leaving.  None.  I thought she'd be glad to see the back of us kids, so she was free to go out and enjoy herself instead of being stuck in the kitchen.   I had no inkling that mothers fall in love with their babies even more deeply than men and women fall in love. Nobody told me, and it's not something you "just know".  I was never lucky enough to have kids so I had no idea at all, until my fifties when some of my friends started becoming "empty nesters", and I saw what trauma it put them through. I was utterly astonished.

Well you may have a point, particularly if the child leaving is young.   I don't agree the parent should let the child know how they feel though, it may make them not go and that would be unfair 

[Tulip1]

3 hours ago, ramot said:

Actually we the parents came to Australia first and our 3 children were in UK. We were the selfish ones!? We were up to new experiences in retirement. We had been expats before retiring here, and because of our lifestyle we know a lot of other parents who did the same as us. Our. Children were very independent again because of having lived overseas and fully supported our move. Unexpectedly 2 of ours followed us to Oz which is why we have applied for the CPV. I genuinely can't say if we would ever move back to UK if 2 hadn't followed us, but I doubt it as our lives are here, and we know so many in the same situation as us who cope.

We obviously don't fit your mold as our grandchildren are in UK with our oldest son, love them to pieces, we see them most years and face time lots, but I don't have this overwhelming need to live near them. 

 

We are all different and that's a good thing. Nothing wrong with either way.  I don't have a 'mold' but i think it's fair to say when you look at the thousands and thousands of parent visa applications (and far more I'm sure if the cost wasn't so high) that there are many parents out there who do feel as I described 

[Amy86]

Hi guys,

I found this post very interesting and sad in the same time.

I have been in Australia for 5 years and I'm 31 yeras old.

It's very hard for all of us.

We left our hometown and families, hoping that sooner or later we'll Live in the same Country, but I understand, that at this point, it will be a dream.??

For our parents is getting harder and harder to get the Visa, and even for us it is difficult (I still waiting for my Permanet Residency)????

I just want to say that, I agree with all the rules and changes that they are making with the Visa(even if it's getting harder and harder for all of us) because from here I can understand their point of view.

We understand that our parents are extremely sad,even if they are happy for us, I know, that Since we left, something is missing in their life and their hearts are broken. ??

It is the same for us, and it isn't easy live without your mam,dad, brothers, sisters, nices and nephews.

Sooner or later,We'll need to make a choice,even if it will be very difficult: 

Do we need prioritize our future family, husband, kids or do we need go back to our hometown close to our mam and dad? 

In my case will be hard make this choice because in one hand, if I'll stay here, I know that my future family will be happier and (maybe) my kids will have less reasons to leave this country, but, on the other hand, I'll be very sad because will be difficult stay away for so long from our family especially when I'll have kids, thinking of my parents stay away from their grandchildren will be atrocious.

I'll finish saying to all the Parents that are leaving offshore, PLEASE, don't put a lot pressure on us and don't ask us to make a decision now, because is not easy.

I'm so sorry if I went into this talk.

Ps: sorry if my English is not fluent??

Good luck to everyone. ??

[Nemesis]

I have to say that while I feel for you people who want to bring parents and extended families to oz, that's not what the migration programme is designed for. Its designed to bring in economic migrants, not families - and most other countries are the same. Some of us cannot even get visas for our partners to live in oz, never mind our extended families. I honestly think anyone migrating just has to remember that there is no guarantee that any family member will ever be able to migrate to join them - and in some cases if you really want to spend your life with your family you need to go home - which is what I had to do to in order to keep my marriage alive.

[Marisawright]

13 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

Well you may have a point, particularly if the child leaving is young.   I don't agree the parent should let the child know how they feel though, it may make them not go and that would be unfair 

I wasn't young.  I left the nest to move elsewhere in the UK at twenty, but I didn't go to Australia till I was over 30.  I still had no idea! 

I still think the parent should speak up. I guess it does depend on what kind of family you are.  I grew up in a typical Scottish Presbyterian family - fairly strict, non-demonstrative, no praise (we might get big-headed!).  My parents did a good job of raising me, I think, but because their emphasis was always on making us behave and correcting our mistakes, I always had the feeling us girls were far more of a burden than a blessing to them.  If my mum was heartbroken when I left, I wish she had said so - it might have made a huge difference to my relationshp with her as an adult.

If it had changed my decision, would that have been a bad thing?  Personally, I prefer my life in Australia - but these days, the idea that moving to Australia guarantees a "better life" is just utter rubbish.  Both countries have a great deal to offer, they're just different.

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Marisawright

[Booma]

17 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

I wasn't young.  I left the nest to move elsewhere in the UK at twenty, but I didn't go to Australia till I was over 30.  I still had no idea! 

I still think the parent should speak up. I guess it does depend on what kind of family you are.  I grew up in a typical Scottish Presbyterian family - fairly strict, non-demonstrative, no praise (we might get big-headed!).  My parents did a good job of raising me, I think, but because their emphasis was always on making us behave and correcting our mistakes, I always had the feeling us girls were far more of a burden than a blessing to them.  If my mum was heartbroken when I left, I wish she had said so - it might have made a huge difference to my relationshp with her as an adult.

If it had changed my decision, would that have been a bad thing?  Personally, I prefer my life in Australia - but these days, the idea that moving to Australia guarantees a "better life" is just utter rubbish.  Both countries have a great deal to offer, they're just different.

 

The thing about being a parent though Marisa is that you put your own wants and needs after your children's wants and needs. It's not even something good parents do consciously. 

 

[ramot]

This isn't totally relevant, but our son who is here in Oz, rang me this afternoon. He had just returned from a trip, so hadn't talked to him about the AOS having changed. I mentioned that my husband, who had accepted that the visa was important to me but wasn't really keen as we are "safe" on our existing visa, was annoyed enough to slightly consider withdrawing. He said he completely feels we should definitely keep the application ongoing for the visa and see the wait out, and that it would be safer for us to be here as PR, and that the new amount is easily covered, which I did know, but it was so lovely to hear him say it, not least because he loves having us here and how important it is to me.