Jump to content

You're currently viewing the forum as a Guest
register-now-button_orig.png
and join in with discussions   
ask migration questions
message other members

..and much much more!

Parley

US, UK and France attack Syria.

Recommended Posts

On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 16:47, VERYSTORMY said:

Its not about removing Assad though. I think it highly unlikely he will be. It is a message that using chemical weapons will not be tolerated. As much a message to Russia as anything as well. 

It's just making a bad situation worse. Do we get to see pictures of how many people or kids these attacks killed or maimed. Whether you get killed or injured by missiles or gassing you are still dead or injured. One is as bad as the other.

If it wasn't for the Russians helping Assad this war would have gone on for years more with thousands more killed. If it had been an American led support for Assad the Western media would have said what a great job they were doing.

Let's not forget that Assad with Russian support has driven back and recaptured a lot of Isis held territory.

Let Assads forces and the Russians get on with it I reckon. Might bring an end to it and some sort of stability in the region.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 07:08, Slean Wolfhead said:

 

Not saying that newjez is wrong....business rules the world and politics is second.  What the people want is a swarming mess of confusion beneath that.

The UK problem is that the Brexiters are saying they want to cut foreign aid to these areas and they don't want to take in refugees, and they want the money saved to be given to Britain to improve domestic services.

So firing expensive cruise missiles to save the kids by interfering in somebody else's domestic problem is an issue for some when they see their own health services and police being cut at home due to there being no money.   When those Syrian kids and their families wash up on a beach in Europe, just like what happened after Iraq and Libya,  it will create a situation that the Brexiters wanted to avoid.  Germany accepting 1 million middle eastern war refugees was one of the Brexit causes because the UK people didn't want to take responsibility for the actions of its Government in creating the mess.   "It's fine to save the kiddies, so long as i don't have to queue for a Doctor myself".

The irony is that voting for Brexit has empowered Putin because he could see a weakened Europe to be exploited, and the Brexit votebase was quite happy to point at Putin as an example of strong leadership, almost admiring him.  They don't know Russian history....now he's poking us with a stick because he's been let out of the box and can see we're getting weaker and have no national consensus for anything anymore.

So the UK fighting back against Putin/Assad and his mob of expansionist henchman, it's actually proving a lot of the Brexit theorists wrong....which perhaps is why Simmo is upset.  The people happy to see Syria bombed are often the same ones who will want nothing to do with the aftermath if they have to pay for it, and will then complain if terrorists turn up in the UK and commit another Manchester/London attack.  So Simmo can't agree with bombing because it undermines his position.

The additional irony about the Brexit idea of what a democracy is, is compounded by the Tory Government actions.   Brexiters argued against a parliamentary vote being necessary for Brexit and even called Judges "enemies of the people" for upholding the law..... but now that a parliamentary vote has been avoided by the PM to take military action to bomb Syria....they can't really argue against that because they were happy see 600 years of parliamentary democracy ignored....almost in the hope of having a Dictatorial leadership in charge !

 

 

Brexit and the Syrian bombing are two totally seperate events and can't possibly be linked. I'm sure there are plenty of anti Brexit people who think the bombing is bad and vice versa.

As far as I see it Simmo is reacting to the bombing and what it might lead to. Nothing to do with his thoughts on Brexit.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 18:16, Perthbum said:

I guess they are, a war against the USA and Europe would end badly for Russia

It would end badly for everybody. Including Aus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

In no true and free democracy does any leader command 90% popularity.  In no true and free democracy does a leader maintain legitimacy over two decades either.

Russia is not a true democracy.

No. In a true democracy (here for example) we get politicians who focus as far as the next election with no future planning after that. They will promise the Earth if they think it will get them another term but very rarely deliver. The opposition just sits there are tries to disrupt the current government as much as possible knowing their turn will come. 

They might even think that some of the current governments proposals are good but won't support them 'cos it's just a game.

Either side would probably support whatever the Americans tell them to do.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

No. In a true democracy (here for example) we get politicians who focus as far as the next election with no future planning after that. They will promise the Earth if they think it will get them another term but very rarely deliver. The opposition just sits there are tries to disrupt the current government as much as possible knowing their turn will come. 

They might even think that some of the current governments proposals are good but won't support them 'cos it's just a game.

Either side would probably support whatever the Americans tell them to do.

Fair enough but would you prefer a dictatorship with phoney elections?

People get the politians they deserve by and large.  Sincere, honest people don’t win elections as a rule.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Why will Russia lead an attack on Israel?

That just sounds like zionist paranoia.

but iam not a Zionist 😃


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Fair enough but would you prefer a dictatorship with phoney elections?

People get the politians they deserve by and large.  Sincere, honest people don’t win elections as a rule.

Can't answer that as I've only lived in the UK and here. I suppose closest I've come to a dictatorship was when Margaret Thatcher was in power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

It's just making a bad situation worse. Do we get to see pictures of how many people or kids these attacks killed or maimed. Whether you get killed or injured by missiles or gassing you are still dead or injured. One is as bad as the other.

If it wasn't for the Russians helping Assad this war would have gone on for years more with thousands more killed. If it had been an American led support for Assad the Western media would have said what a great job they were doing.

Let's not forget that Assad with Russian support has driven back and recaptured a lot of Isis held territory.

Let Assads forces and the Russians get on with it I reckon. Might bring an end to it and some sort of stability in the region.

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 

100 odd missiles and no one killed? Did they give them into a desert?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bunbury61 said:

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 

i agree by the way about assad .....eapecially when sources within the u.s were assisting and using I.s to destabilise the region

  • Like 1

BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

but iam not a Zionist 😃

So just someone who has fallen for zionist propoganda then.  :/


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 

Yep.  Pipelines, military industrial complex and religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Can't answer that as I've only lived in the UK and here. I suppose closest I've come to a dictatorship was when Margaret Thatcher was in power.

You don’t know whether or not you prefer democracy to dictatorship solely because you have never lived under a dictatorship?


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fair enough but would you prefer a dictatorship with phoney elections?
People get the politians they deserve by and large.  Sincere, honest people don’t win elections as a rule.



I think the lessons from the general gist of the conversation is that al versions of Governance and organisation are flawed, with positive and negative aspects. Each will argue their version is better than the rest. So no one is superior to the other, just different.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i agree by the way about assad .....eapecially when sources within the u.s were assisting and using I.s to destabilise the region


We’d laugh if it wasn’t a situation for crying. Sadly it’s all proxy BS, either to stabilise regimes, put in structures we favour (them find they too have their own agenda (quelle surprise) or further an ideology and yes, the arms industry just wrings their hands in glee at the sheer inanity of it all.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bunbury61 said:

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 

I've seen the before and after satellite shots of the attacked sites mate and the press are telling us no-one was killed? Don't believe it. Not even a night watchman on sites that big and complex. The only way no-one would have been killed was to let Syria know exactly what was going to be obliterated and when. They may well have done that but it would kind of defeat the objective.

We've seen how much carnage one well placed bomb causes. Can't understand how multiple missile strikes avoid killing someone. Noise on its own would be enough for some old person to have a heart attack.

The press and media outlets tell you what you want to believe.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

You don’t know whether or not you prefer democracy to dictatorship solely because you have never lived under a dictatorship?

I've seen documentaries on Russia and China and I'm pretty sure I prefer to live in Aus. 

That said there are some multi millionaires in both countries who've done pretty well under their system so who am i to judge. I worked with a Russian girl in a past company and she had nothing but good things to say about her schooling and younger life. I don't know enough about either place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

no one was killed .....in answer to your final point .....elements don't want an end to the war in the middle east ....thats the point ,this just keeps the pot boiling .

control of the region ....oil pipelines....arms sales

this ongoing war ,is feeding an industry.

 

I think the oil argument is a bit old now. There's a glut of oil in America and it's more than self sufficient now they have fracking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ssiri said:

 


We’d laugh if it wasn’t a situation for crying. Sadly it’s all proxy BS, either to stabilise regimes, put in structures we favour (them find they too have their own agenda (quelle surprise) or further an ideology and yes, the arms industry just wrings their hands in glee at the sheer inanity of it all.

 

I agree....up to a point as I feel that you are giving the arms industry a massive pass in assuming that they are unwitting beneficiaries of these policies rather than oiling the wheels by buying US political institutions.  Saudi atrocities in Yemen get almost no mention at all and have zero effect on arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

Just look at the arms manufacturers very own terrorist institution, the NRA, which does more to aid US homegrown terrorists than Al Qaeda and ISIS combined.  For chrissake they manage to turn school shooting massacres into a call to arm teachers and therefore sell even more guns and ammunition.

Despite massive tax cuts the US is embarking on major increases in already substantial military spending boosting a deficit which Republicans were supposedly implacably opposed to.  To be fair it isn’t only arms companies as big Pharmaceutical companies and the banks also control policy through bribery in the US.

And where the US leads we all follow.

  • Like 1

Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree....up to a point as I feel that you are giving the arms industry a massive pass in assuming that they are unwitting beneficiaries of these policies rather than oiling the wheels by buying US political institutions.  Saudi atrocities in Yemen get almost no mention at all and have zero effect on arms sales to Saudi Arabia.
Just look at the arms manufacturers very own terrorist institution, the NRA, which does more to aid US homegrown terrorists than Al Qaeda and ISIS combined.  For chrissake they manage to turn school shooting massacres into a call to arm teachers and therefore sell even more guns and ammunition.
Despite massive tax cuts the US is embarking on major increases in already substantial military spending boosting a deficit which Republicans were supposedly implacably opposed to.  To be fair it isn’t only arms companies as big Pharmaceutical companies and the banks also control policy through bribery in the US.
And where the US leads we all follow.



Nope, I’m not giving arms dealers a free pass. Of course they aren’t passively waiting for something to fall in their lap. Yes lobbying is the way the American democracy works. We sold arms and weapons to Saudi Arabia ourselves - just check the BAE Systems website for info about it.

They will influence in all spheres, and if our short sighted politicians will lend them an ear, directly via arms trade deals or indirectly via proxy or ideological policies or starting/prolonging (as opposed to quelling) conflicts, they will take it without hesitation.

That’s what I mean when I say they are wringing their hands at the inanity, and we’d be laughing if it wasn’t something to cry over - that they are in hock.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Perthbum said:

pity they aint very good at it.

Iast time I checked, Russians were in the Crimea, the Japanese weren't in Russia, the Germans had lost both world wars and Afghanistan was a pain in the arse for the west.

Next.

Edited by newjez

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kkk

13 hours ago, newjez said:

100 odd missiles and no one killed? Did they give them into a desert?

as I said ...no casualties .....precision weapons ,into buldings .

every chance special forces had done a full survey of the areas ,before missiles were launched , to make sure civilians were not killed.

ALSO AS YOU ARE FULLY AWARE , THE RUSSIANS WERE TOLD WHAT WOULD BE HIT AND WHEN ,AND CLEAR THE AREAS


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Kkk

as I said ...no casualties .....precision weapons ,into buldings .

every chance special forces had done a full survey of the areas ,before missiles were launched , to make sure civilians were not killed.

ALSO AS YOU ARE FULLY AWARE , THE RUSSIANS WERE TOLD WHAT WOULD BE HIT AND WHEN ,AND CLEAR THE AREAS

imagine if 30 children had been killed ...do you think it may have ben on the t.v by now ? .....dear me


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×