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Paulie

21 y.o. child visa migration strategy

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Greetings,

May someone pls recommend an experienced migration agent to work out the child migration strategy for a 21 y.o.? The case is not straightforward, as I've learned of the kid just last year. He lives in another country and I work in UK, planning to go back to Australia in September. 

Many thanks!

 


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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Any of the agents who post on the forum would be able to help you, I imagine.

That said, I dare say it would be difficult to prove dependency for a 21 year old when they were already age of majority when you discovered the relationship?

Good luck, in any case.

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Thank you, CeltInCaulfield. I was thinking in direction of a student visa for him to study English to begin with, where I'd be paying for tuition and accommodation. And then after applying for 101 child visa onshore and him being fully dependent. Another issue could be the AoS, as my income was overseas over the last few years. 


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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Any of the agents who post on here would be a good starting point. 

Until you've run your case past one or two of them I'd not be doing anything. Or even planning. You may have options, but it could be you don't have any in terms of the plan you mention above. Given the circumstances I'd not risk doing the application on my own if it were me, I'd be taking on and paying for a decent agent to ensure everything was done properly. This does not sound like one of those visa applications that are straightforward and its a lot to lose if it were lodged by yourself and then refused. 

@Raul Senise @Alan Collett @Richard Gregan @wrussell

 

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You need to apply for the Child visa before they turn 25. But the child must have been financially dependent on you since leaving high school, which is best demonstrated by uninterrupted study and no work. Any breaks in study of more than 6 months will be questioned. It might be hard to apply for a Child visa if you have only known them since last year.

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Lisa De Leon - Registered Migration Agent MARN 1170616

lisa@australianvisaoptions.com.au

www.australianvisaoptions.com.au

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Thank you, @Lisa De Leon

Last year was when I've formally learned and confirmed on paper - via DNA blood testing. However, learned of the fact initially few years back and since was sending money indirectly to support him (via my parents).

 


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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2 hours ago, Paulie said:

Thank you, @Lisa De Leon

Last year was when I've formally learned and confirmed on paper - via DNA blood testing. However, learned of the fact initially few years back and since was sending money indirectly to support him (via my parents).

 

I think from what you have posted, it is going to be a very hard thing. Immigration do not care when you leaned of him. You would need to establish he has been in full time education and dependent on you during that time. It is a very black and white area. But you should consult a good agent on a professional capacity. 

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My eldest  daughter was at high school when we lodged our 176 state nominated skilled visa  , throughout the application she transferred to university with a government loan for her course and accomodation in student halls ( we went thorough an agent ) due to other hold ups in our application she  just turned 21 before our visa was granted , my self my OH and three other children were all granted the PR Viisa but my eldest daughter was refused , the reason being she was no longer a dependent on the applicant . The fact that she had a government loan for her accomodation was deemed enough for them to be non dependent of us . This was 2012  

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4 hours ago, Jojoe said:

My eldest  daughter was at high school when we lodged our 176 state nominated skilled visa  , throughout the application she transferred to university with a government loan for her course and accomodation in student halls ( we went thorough an agent ) due to other hold ups in our application she  just turned 21 before our visa was granted , my self my OH and three other children were all granted the PR Viisa but my eldest daughter was refused , the reason being she was no longer a dependent on the applicant . The fact that she had a government loan for her accomodation was deemed enough for them to be non dependent of us . This was 2012  

That's a tough decision although I can see where they're going with that one. Makes no sense in having the dependant visa up to 25 years old then as I've never known a person in their 20's still be doing their gcse's. I would have thought university was dependant enough 

Edited by Tulip1

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On 14/04/2018 at 19:59, Tulip1 said:

That's a tough decision although I can see where they're going with that one. Makes no sense in having the dependant visa up to 25 years old then as I've never known a person in their 20's still be doing their gcse's. I would have thought university was dependant enough 

From our application we learnt that if  a student was at university and living at home soley dependent on the applicant for the university course costs ,and living expenses  then they would be deemed dependent on the applicant .Therefore I if you are applying for a visa please ensure you meet all their costs when they go to university and I would expect college to have this negative imapact also 

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1 hour ago, Jojoe said:

From our application we learnt that if  a student was at university and living at home soley dependent on the applicant for the university course costs ,and living expenses  then they would be deemed dependent on the applicant .Therefore I if you are applying for a visa please ensure you meet all their costs when they go to university and I would expect college to have this negative imapact also 

Thank you. Then I guess if the college would have been State-funded/by grant, then the kid wouldn't qualify, i.e. not being dependent enough. What I hear is that tuition fees need to be covered by the father. 


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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Yes we got denied  for my daughter being dependent on the government funding  , she took out a personal government funded loan. , therefore not considrered dependent on the applicant .Simple facts that was not relevant on application of visa  was that she was still in school.at the time of application but there was no consideration of  these facts during application ..No cause for appeal .It was simply deemed unquestionable,that my daughter who was soley dependent on us throughout the application But by the time our application was concluded she was no longer dependent 

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i just want to empathise with families in this situation, on one hand you have the 45year old clock ticking for your visa, then you have kids completing A levels and contemplating University.   So if you do succeed in attaining dependency (and I really hope you do) then what is next ...?

 

For us we migrated when my child was 2, I can honestly say hand on heart if she was 18, finishing studies and considering uni and that could jeopardise her visa rights it’s a no brainer, I want to spend as much of my life in the same county as her as possible.  If we migrated whist she could be a dependant on the visa, the fact that she is in the prime of her educational life and contemplating her future is vital, migrating as PR would mean no international uni fees but it would mean uni fees, paid up front, even commonwealth supported so you’re looking at 20k plus minimum and that needs to be factored in. Im going on my degree,  nursing, classed as essential so heavily subsidised but I know other subjects aren’t and the fees are much much higher (e.g med students, 6 figures easily) xx

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#paulie as you requested in your OP I urge you to seek the advice of an experienced MA and I can see you have received links to some highly respected ones.   You are connecting with your child and it’s wonderful but with migration there are no guarantees, you did mention a student visa but even I know (and I know very little) that these are getting tougher.  OZ will happily take your international student fees, why wouldn’t they? But they will also happily say bye bye and go home at the end of the studies, fees are In return for a level of education and a subsequent degree, MA etc, not a job and a visa, there are far too many Australian graduates to accommodate first.

things have changed so much and so quickly, visa advise you may have got 6 months ago is way out of date for example.  I feel for you, you have a dream to come to OZ, you have a recently discovered child, the two may not go hand in hand and you may have choices to make you weren’t contemplating a few years ago.  I wish you both the best of luck xxxx

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4 hours ago, Jojoe said:

From our application we learnt that if  a student was at university and living at home soley dependent on the applicant for the university course costs ,and living expenses  then they would be deemed dependent on the applicant .Therefore I if you are applying for a visa please ensure you meet all their costs when they go to university and I would expect college to have this negative imapact also 

Most students will get a student loan which only covers the course. None of that is used to 'live', it just covers the just over £9k per year fees and is paid directly to the university, the student does not see this. Students in halls/rentals will often get a maintenance grant to help cover this (amount subject to parental income) but even the highest amount that can be awarded does not cover the basic accommodation let alone anything else. Also, the halls are generally only for term time so students have to live somewhere else in the holidays. I would challenge any student to live without parental help and I'm sure the only way it would be possible is by them having a part time job which pays well. How they'd survive in the 15 weeks a year uni holiday I've no idea. I know of students that don't get parental help and they are struggling with the degree course as they're working too many hours to cover living and are worried sick as they have maxed out in an overdraft and credit card and spend their time desperately trying to find a way to get money.  We all hear about the students that appear back home every school holiday with a whole terms worth of washing and fed up with pot noodles, how can they not be seen as dependant?  If for example the parent moved abroad how would these students manage? They can't as whilst they may get a bit of help by way of the maintenance grant it's not enough and students are not entitled to any benefits whatsoever. I've no idea of course, it maybe that immigration don't see them as dependant but I find that strange   

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It was 2013 when we applied and 2014 when granted. Both our sons were at uni.  We provided evidence that we supported them though and didn’t just assume it would be OK.  They both still had the family home address as their permanent one with banks both registered there rather than their temp termtime accommodations. We also paid them an allowance every month to allow them to stay away from home during term time, we had been doing this since A levels (though obviously not as much!) as a way to teach them to budget.  From the allowance they had to pay for travel, food when away from home, entertainment, phone contracts and non essential clothes etc.

once at uni the amount was increased significantly because as you say any maintenance grant doesn’t even cover rent. So not difficult to prove we were supporting them.

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So many wineries ......so little time :yes:

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On 4/13/2018 at 19:28, Lisa De Leon said:

You need to apply for the Child visa before they turn 25. But the child must have been financially dependent on you since leaving high school, which is best demonstrated by uninterrupted study and no work. Any breaks in study of more than 6 months will be questioned. It might be hard to apply for a Child visa if you have only known them since last year.

hi Lisa

what about visa 173 my sister turned 25 today and we lodged file for visa 173 in april 2015 i got letter from CO saying he is satisfied she is student and demanded more documents which I send on 23 March and now waiting . what do you think are the chances and how long will it take


visa 173 Lodged 23 April 2015 .All documents, medicals ,Police clearance certificate submitted 23 March 2018

2ND VAC PAID 27 JUNE  2018

AT LAST VISA GRANTED 04/07/218?

143 applied in sept 2018

Aos applied 26 sept 2019

Bank guarantee requested 6 jan 2019

Bank guarantee done 9 jan 2019

bank guarantee submitted 9 jan 2019

request for 2nd Vac 15 jan  2019

Second vac paid 17 jan 2019

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2 hours ago, sh aron said:

hi Lisa

what about visa 173 my sister turned 25 today and we lodged file for visa 173 in april 2015 i got letter from CO saying he is satisfied she is student and demanded more documents which I send on 23 March and now waiting . what do you think are the chances and how long will it take

Isn't subclass 173 limited to Parent migration? 


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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3 hours ago, sh aron said:

hi Lisa

what about visa 173 my sister turned 25 today and we lodged file for visa 173 in april 2015 i got letter from CO saying he is satisfied she is student and demanded more documents which I send on 23 March and now waiting . what do you think are the chances and how long will it take

To include a child as migrating with you in your 173 visa application, the child must:

  • be your child or a stepchild from a current or a previous relationship (in certain circumstances);
  • not be married, engaged to be married, or have a de facto partner; and must be:
    1. under 18 years of age
      or
    2. over 18 years of age but not yet turned 23, and be dependent on you or your partner
      or
    3. over 23 years of age and be unable to earn a living to support themselves due to physical or cognitive limitations and be dependent on you or your partner (Note: The child will still need to meet Australia’s health requirement)

The only way a child > 23 can be successfully included is if they have an intellectual disability as in point 3 above. These changes occurred in November 2016.


Lisa De Leon - Registered Migration Agent MARN 1170616

lisa@australianvisaoptions.com.au

www.australianvisaoptions.com.au

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17 hours ago, Phoenix16 said:

#paulie as you requested in your OP I urge you to seek the advice of an experienced MA and I can see you have received links to some highly respected ones.   You are connecting with your child and it’s wonderful but with migration there are no guarantees, you did mention a student visa but even I know (and I know very little) that these are getting tougher.  OZ will happily take your international student fees, why wouldn’t they? But they will also happily say bye bye and go home at the end of the studies, fees are In return for a level of education and a subsequent degree, MA etc, not a job and a visa, there are far too many Australian graduates to accommodate first.

things have changed so much and so quickly, visa advise you may have got 6 months ago is way out of date for example.  I feel for you, you have a dream to come to OZ, you have a recently discovered child, the two may not go hand in hand and you may have choices to make you weren’t contemplating a few years ago.  I wish you both the best of luck xxxx

Thank you for the kind words of support, Phoenix16.

I guess we will take our chance on 101 one way or the other. I am yet to hear back from the mentioned MA's. I know it is not going to be easy, especially in terms of collecting evidence of the kid's dependence on me.

We were thinking in direction of a student visa, hoping that it would make a difference for Immigration if we apply for the child visa onshore. Again, it would make it much easier for us to present credible "dependence" evidence if he lives with us (local bank statements, accommodation, proof of study, etc.).    


143 applied October 2019 - Acknowledgement 29 Oct 2019

870 Sponsorship applied 17 April 2019 - Rejected 6 Aug 2019

870 Sponsorship re-applied 23 Oct 2019 - Approved 20 Nov 2019

870 (5 year) applied 12 Dec 2019 - medical requested 12 Dec 2019 - medical done 26 Dec 2019

Evidence of health insurance and 2nd VAC requested - Parent (1) 29 Jan 2020, Parent (2) 21 Feb 2020

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On 4/18/2018 at 18:39, Paulie said:

Isn't subclass 173 limited to Parent migration? 

dependent can be added


visa 173 Lodged 23 April 2015 .All documents, medicals ,Police clearance certificate submitted 23 March 2018

2ND VAC PAID 27 JUNE  2018

AT LAST VISA GRANTED 04/07/218?

143 applied in sept 2018

Aos applied 26 sept 2019

Bank guarantee requested 6 jan 2019

Bank guarantee done 9 jan 2019

bank guarantee submitted 9 jan 2019

request for 2nd Vac 15 jan  2019

Second vac paid 17 jan 2019

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On 17/04/2018 at 23:24, Jojoe said:

From our application we learnt that if  a student was at university and living at home soley dependent on the applicant for the university course costs ,and living expenses  then they would be deemed dependent on the applicant .Therefore I if you are applying for a visa please ensure you meet all their costs when they go to university and I would expect college to have this negative imapact also 

This is where a migration agent can help avoid a heart breaking decision like the above case. The wording in the legislation is crucial to whether the applicant satisfies the requirements. The important factor in the above case is that they were not relying on their parent for accommodation. If your case is not straight forward always consult a registered migration agent.

Under the legislation: 

The test for dependency is that the visa applicant is reliant on the parent for financial support to meet the applicant's ‘basic needs’ for food, clothing and shelter and that the reliance on the parent is greater than their reliance on any other person or source of support. The legislation requires a person to be dependent for a substantial period immediately before the time of application.


Lisa De Leon - Registered Migration Agent MARN 1170616

lisa@australianvisaoptions.com.au

www.australianvisaoptions.com.au

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On 4/18/2018 at 20:51, Paulie said:

Thank you for the kind words of support, Phoenix16.

I guess we will take our chance on 101 one way or the other. I am yet to hear back from the mentioned MA's. I know it is not going to be easy, especially in terms of collecting evidence of the kid's dependence on me.

We were thinking in direction of a student visa, hoping that it would make a difference for Immigration if we apply for the child visa onshore. Again, it would make it much easier for us to present credible "dependence" evidence if he lives with us (local bank statements, accommodation, proof of study, etc.).    

It's a common misconception that if you can get to Australia on a temp visa, you'll have some kind of advantage when applying for a permanent visa.  It's not true.

The only advantage you'll have is that the kid will go on a bridging visa, and will be allowed to stay in Australia while the case is considered.  So at least he'll be able to stay with you a bit longer.  However, that could be counter-productive if it raises the child's hopes unreasonably, if he feels you've misled him it could affect your relationship.

Since Lisa has posted a reply to you, why not engage her?

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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On 18/04/2018 at 04:12, Tulip1 said:

Most students will get a student loan which only covers the course. None of that is used to 'live', it just covers the just over £9k per year fees and is paid directly to the university, the student does not see this. Students in halls/rentals will often get a maintenance grant to help cover this (amount subject to parental income) but even the highest amount that can be awarded does not cover the basic accommodation let alone anything else. Also, the halls are generally only for term time so students have to live somewhere else in the holidays. I would challenge any student to live without parental help and I'm sure the only way it would be possible is by them having a part time job which pays well. How they'd survive in the 15 weeks a year uni holiday I've no idea. I know of students that don't get parental help and they are struggling with the degree course as they're working too many hours to cover living and are worried sick as they have maxed out in an overdraft and credit card and spend their time desperately trying to find a way to get money.  We all hear about the students that appear back home every school holiday with a whole terms worth of washing and fed up with pot noodles, how can they not be seen as dependant?  If for example the parent moved abroad how would these students manage? They can't as whilst they may get a bit of help by way of the maintenance grant it's not enough and students are not entitled to any benefits whatsoever. I've no idea of course, it maybe that immigration don't see them as dependant but I find that strange   

In my daughters case her course loan and accomodation loan meant that she was non dependent on the main application at the time  of visa grant . We did help her out financially with handouts that were not recorded on bank statements and she did come home at weekends and holidays and was dependent on us then . This was taken into account  but because she was not solely dependent on us her visa was refused .We had no idea that the accomodation loan would have such an impact on her visa nor did we take into account of ensuring having a paper trail for each financial handout we gave her . 

5 hours ago, Lisa De Leon said:

This is where a migration agent can help avoid a heart breaking decision like the above case. The wording in the legislation is crucial to whether the applicant satisfies the requirements. The important factor in the above case is that they were not relying on their parent for accommodation. If your case is not straight forward always consult a registered migration agent.

Under the legislation: 

The test for dependency is that the visa applicant is reliant on the parent for financial support to meet the applicant's ‘basic needs’ for food, clothing and shelter and that the reliance on the parent is greater than their reliance on any other person or source of support. The legislation requires a person to be dependent for a substantial period immediately before the time of application.

 

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5 hours ago, Lisa De Leon said:

This is where a migration agent can help avoid a heart breaking decision like the above case. The wording in the legislation is crucial to whether the applicant satisfies the requirements. The important factor in the above case is that they were not relying on their parent for accommodation. If your case is not straight forward always consult a registered migration agent.

Under the legislation: 

The test for dependency is that the visa applicant is reliant on the parent for financial support to meet the applicant's ‘basic needs’ for food, clothing and shelter and that the reliance on the parent is greater than their reliance on any other person or source of support. The legislation requires a person to be dependent for a substantial period immediately before the time of application.

This was  exactly why my daughter got refused .We was with a redgistered migrant throughout our application as we did have a complicated application that went on for numerous years with a few hold ups for other things . I would always advise to go with a redgistered migrant , unfortunately for us my daughter didn’t meet the above criteria and we learnt afterwards what we should have done to ensure this . We can’t turn the clock back for our application but hopefully by sharing my experience and your advice will ensure that it doesn’t happen for anyone else  

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