Quality of life for kids

[MissMissingEurope]

Hi everyone, i'm a new member on here but a long-time reader of the MBTTUK forum! I've been in Perth for 8 years now with my husband and have 2 kids who are 4 and 1. We are all dual UK/Aus citizens. We have been considering moving back for years now and have pretty much decided that we will do it, but it will take us a couple of years to organise everything and save up enough money to do it. We have already ping-ponged once over 10 years ago so we are aware that both places have their pros and cons and we aren't looking at the UK through rose-tinted glasses/with a grass is greener outlook. 

Reasons for moving back: wanting to be closer to friends and family, boredom with Perth, not liking the isolation, hating suburbia, bored of the samey weather and lack of distinct seasons, missing Europe (oh so much! I have NEVER stopped missing Europe since we arrived here) and the ability to travel cheaply, wanting our kids to grow up being able to experience all the Europe has to offer instead of living in the insular bubble that is Perth. 

We aren't sure where in the UK we will move back to yet. I feel that if we are going to move back, we need to do it soon because if we stay here too long we will get "stuck" here.. our kids will become proper aussies, they will attend high school then probably uni in oz, may settle and have kids here and then it will be so hard to move back! At least if we move soon and it doesn't work out, we can always come back before the kids start high school (though i doubt we would do that). I have met elderly British people here who long to go back to the UK but are stuck here because they have kids and grandkids here. I just cannot see myself living here into old age. 

The thing is, whenever I mention this plan to anyone (family included), I get really negative reactions and people telling me that it would be a terrible mistake to move our kids away from this place that apparently is "the best place in the world to raise kids". They make out like the UK is some third world country that's a terrible place for families and it really makes me worry that they are right and we are going to make a terrible mistake. They also comment on how awful the UK weather and act like we would be crazy to go back to it but honestly, i''m bored of the Perth weather.. i'm sure i'll miss the heat but weather is not everything. 

Because of the negative reactions, sometimes I feel like giving up on the dream of going back and just accepting that the best thing for our kids is just to stay here, even if we don't want to. Then again, I don't want to look back in 10 or 20 years and think "what if?"

I guess i'm just looking for some reassurance from someone.. did you move with young kids and find that it was actually ok? Do your kids have a good quality of life in the UK? Has anyone had similar negative reactions from people?

 

[Marisawright]

23 minutes ago, MissMissingEurope said:

... We have been considering moving back for years now and have pretty much decided that we will do i...

The thing is, whenever I mention this plan to anyone (family included), I get really negative reactions and people telling me that it would be a terrible mistake to move our kids away from this place that apparently is "the best place in the world to raise kids"

Are these people who live in Australia, or people who live in the UK?   

If they're in the UK, then I think most people there still think Australia is Home and Away or Neighbours, or that it's still the land of opportunity it was when their Auntie Bunty emigrated thirty years ago.  So unless they've actually lived in Australia, you can afford to ignore them - they have no idea what they're talking about, and they're incapable of making an accurate comparison.

Of course the same can be true of Australians - if they've never lived in the UK, then all they know is what they see on the news, or on gritty BBC dramas, so they think Britain is going to the dogs (which it is in places, but then so is Australia and everywhere else in the world!!).  

The thing that got me was when you said, " I just cannot see myself living here into old age".  If that thought fills you with dread, then don't hesitate - get on that plane as fast as possible!  If you delay, who knows what might happen.  Go now, while you can.

There are pros and cons to both countries, one is not better than the other for children (or anyone else for that matter).  It's purely a matter of personal taste.  

[Toots]

I second everything Marisa has said.  There are a few members of this forum who moved back with young children and are very happy and settled.  Moving back to the UK was the right decision for them.   

[MissMissingEurope]

41 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Are these people who live in Australia, or people who live in the UK?   

It's both actually. Many of the UK-based people who say that to me have actually been to Australia. As for people in Perth, it's not so much Australians but other Brits who have moved here. I find that most of them love Perth and would never consider moving back in a million years! 

[Quoll]

Yup. Marisa has hit the nail on the head. Do not let yourself drift past the point of no return - it’s all too easy to paddle along then you find yourself up the proverbial creek and your paddle has disintegrated.  There is absolutely nothing that makes Australia “better” than anywhere else. It’s another first world country and as long as you’re not planning on moving back to Mogadishu there’s nothing to say things are going to be worse for the kids - there may even be other benefits which (heaven forbid) make it better than what they now have.

Kids generally appreciate the extended family contact, having grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins around, it’s a kind of security blanket for them. However, never imagine that you are going back to exactly what you had - if you’re one of the lucky ones, you might slot straight back in, but as a lot of folk have found, the holes left in other peoples’ lives by their departure have healed over, often with scar tissue, and there isn’t the space there any more.  Move forwards to your next adventure!

[Amber Snowball]

21 minutes ago, MissMissingEurope said:

It's both actually. Many of the UK-based people who say that to me have actually been to Australia. As for people in Perth, it's not so much Australians but other Brits who have moved here. I find that most of them love Perth and would never consider moving back in a million years! 

I have found this as well, although I don’t have young children. It is the Brits here (mostly) that can’t believe I am leaving Australia. The Australians (mostly) just accept my decision and ask how my plans are coming along. Not sure of the reason for this. Might be they are so happy they can’t understand why I’m not, even though our situations are worlds apart, don’t know. Luckily the opinions of others are interesting to me but nothing more, I don’t crave approval as such and can just ignore them, but it can cause self doubt no question.

Just a word of warning I am leaving my son here to finish Uni. This is easier and cheaper than moving for him at this stage and I can’t delay leaving much longer, it’s a tough decision but we are okay with it. Others can’t imagine leaving their children. 

Good luck with your decision, only you can decide in the end, but keep an eye on the long term, time isn’t always on our side.

[Marisawright]

55 minutes ago, MissMissingEurope said:

It's both actually. Many of the UK-based people who say that to me have actually been to Australia. As for people in Perth, it's not so much Australians but other Brits who have moved here. I find that most of them love Perth and would never consider moving back in a million years! 

...but have they lived there, or just had a holiday (anywhere looks good when you're in holiday mode!).    As for the Brits - that doesn't surprise me.  It's often a case of "methinks thou doest protest too much".   People who loudly proclaim how wonderful their marriage/home/country/whatever is, are often harbouring secret doubts themselves, and are trying to convince themselves as much as you.  It's the quiet ones who can see both sides of the coin who are the genuinely happy ones!

[Amber Snowball]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

...but have they lived there, or just had a holiday (anywhere looks good when you're in holiday mode!).    As for the Brits - that doesn't surprise me.  It's often a case of "methinks thou doest protest too much".   People who loudly proclaim how wonderful their marriage/home/country/whatever is, are often harbouring secret doubts themselves, and are trying to convince themselves as much as you.  It's the quiet ones who can see both sides of the coin who are the genuinely happy ones!

Yes, this. 

[VERYSTORMY]

We don't have children, so cant help with that.

We moved back in 2016 for different reasons. Mainly financial as I work in mining and was struggling to get work and was offered work back in the UK.

We have settled back wonderfully. Our life isn't perfect, but whose is. I would certainly say our standard of living is as good and all the important things are as least good.

We live in a part of the country we never expected to - central Scotland. Before we moved to WA we lived in Leicester. Now, we live in a tiny little village with a strong community feel. We are surrounded by stunning countryside and even though my wife is a sun worshiper and we certainly don't have the warmest climate in the UK totally loves it to the extent we were chatting about what we would do if we ever won the lottery and where she would like to live. Her reply was right where we are.

The old thing about people asking almost in horror why you are returning is an old chestnut that I still get now from people here. I then point out that life in Oz doesn't mean just sitting around a pool throwing another prawn on the barbie which is what a lot of them think it is.

[MissMissingEurope]

43 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

...but have they lived there, or just had a holiday (anywhere looks good when you're in holiday mode!)

It's people who have only been here on a holiday or working holiday.. totally different scenario to living here for 8 years! 

[MissMissingEurope]

1 hour ago, Quoll said:

However, never imagine that you are going back to exactly what you had - if you’re one of the lucky ones, you might slot straight back in, but as a lot of folk have found, the holes left in other peoples’ lives by their departure have healed over, often with scar tissue, and there isn’t the space there any more.  Move forwards to your next adventure!

We would definitely move somewhere totally new for the adventure  Honestly, if we had the money I would happily jump on a plane tomorrow. We have a LOT of saving to do before this becomes a realistic option for us but i'm sure we will get there one day (hopefully in the next 2.5 years, by which time I can get long service leave which will help a lot). 

[rammygirl]

Have you lived anywhere else in Australia? I live in the Adelaide hills. A great local community with four distinct seasons including Autumn with yellow and red leaves. And a cold winter with frost on the grass. 

[bristolman]

The British seem to be very negative about their own country, i really dont know why it is but yes some make the UK sound like s 3rd world country. We moved here coming up to 6 years ago and our 2 boys have absolutely zero interest in returning to Australia. They are doing fantastically well in school and have a great circle of friends. 

Some in the UK really do still see Australia as a paradise and how could you ever consider leaving. SOME Brits in Australia will do whatever is necessary to fit in with the locals and if that means criticising literally every aspect of the UK they will happily do it. We had friends move to Brisbane while we were there and at a BBQ one night they were telling anyone that would listen about all the things you can't do in the UK even though they knew very well what they were saying wasn't true. This is why you don' listen to many Brits and their horror stories. We have a wonderful life here, we live in a beautiful house in a lovely village and our kids are incredibly settled. 

Even the weather here isn' what it used to be, far milder winters and generally really nice Spring, Summer and Autumn. Also very few stinking hot days lol

[bristolman]

44 minutes ago, MissMissingEurope said:

We would definitely move somewhere totally new for the adventure  Honestly, if we had the money I would happily jump on a plane tomorrow. We have a LOT of saving to do before this becomes a realistic option for us but i'm sure we will get there one day (hopefully in the next 2.5 years, by which time I can get long service leave which will help a lot). 

We did this, we were all set to move to where my wife is from in the SW but instead found a lovely place in Herefordshire and haven't regretted it. 

[PatrickA]

Hi MissMissingEurope

My advice would be to move while your kids are young, you have that advantage. We are also in Perth and moving back to UK in Nov after my daughter finishes her year 12.

We have been in Perth 11 years and i tell you i don't know where the time has flown. My son is aged 13 and not keen to move back.  Few years ago he was keen. We delayed our move so my daughter could finish her year 12.

Everything gets harder as the kids get older, we now having to sort out secondary schools and universities.

Good luck

Patrick

 

 

[bristolman]

18 minutes ago, PatrickA said:

Hi MissMissingEurope

My advice would be to move while your kids are young, you have that advantage. We are also in Perth and moving back to UK in Nov after my daughter finishes her year 12.

We have been in Perth 11 years and i tell you i don't know where the time has flown. My son is aged 13 and not keen to move back.  Few years ago he was keen. We delayed our move so my daughter could finish her year 12.

Everything gets harder as the kids get older, we now having to sort out secondary schools and universities.

Good luck

Patrick

 

 

We did it when our kids were 10 and they were totally up for it. A few more years then who knows but yes earlier the better. 

[newjez]

4 hours ago, MissMissingEurope said:

Hi everyone, i'm a new member on here but a long-time reader of the MBTTUK forum! I've been in Perth for 8 years now with my husband and have 2 kids who are 4 and 1. We are all dual UK/Aus citizens. We have been considering moving back for years now and have pretty much decided that we will do it, but it will take us a couple of years to organise everything and save up enough money to do it. We have already ping-ponged once over 10 years ago so we are aware that both places have their pros and cons and we aren't looking at the UK through rose-tinted glasses/with a grass is greener outlook. 

Reasons for moving back: wanting to be closer to friends and family, boredom with Perth, not liking the isolation, hating suburbia, bored of the samey weather and lack of distinct seasons, missing Europe (oh so much! I have NEVER stopped missing Europe since we arrived here) and the ability to travel cheaply, wanting our kids to grow up being able to experience all the Europe has to offer instead of living in the insular bubble that is Perth. 

We aren't sure where in the UK we will move back to yet. I feel that if we are going to move back, we need to do it soon because if we stay here too long we will get "stuck" here.. our kids will become proper aussies, they will attend high school then probably uni in oz, may settle and have kids here and then it will be so hard to move back! At least if we move soon and it doesn't work out, we can always come back before the kids start high school (though i doubt we would do that). I have met elderly British people here who long to go back to the UK but are stuck here because they have kids and grandkids here. I just cannot see myself living here into old age. 

The thing is, whenever I mention this plan to anyone (family included), I get really negative reactions and people telling me that it would be a terrible mistake to move our kids away from this place that apparently is "the best place in the world to raise kids". They make out like the UK is some third world country that's a terrible place for families and it really makes me worry that they are right and we are going to make a terrible mistake. They also comment on how awful the UK weather and act like we would be crazy to go back to it but honestly, i''m bored of the Perth weather.. i'm sure i'll miss the heat but weather is not everything. 

Because of the negative reactions, sometimes I feel like giving up on the dream of going back and just accepting that the best thing for our kids is just to stay here, even if we don't want to. Then again, I don't want to look back in 10 or 20 years and think "what if?"

I guess i'm just looking for some reassurance from someone.. did you move with young kids and find that it was actually ok? Do your kids have a good quality of life in the UK? Has anyone had similar negative reactions from people?

 

Hello missing Europe.

I was born in the UK, spent age 3-10 in Sydney, 10-11 in London, 12-26 in Perth.

So I guess you could say I grew up in Perth.

I moved to the UK at 27, mainly for the reasons you say. I wanted more from life, and knew there was more to the world than Perth. I got married in the UK, and have three kids and they have an idilic lifestyle. Couldn't really want for anything.

Saying that, their cousins in Australia have all had pretty good lives too.

Life is what you make of it really, and you should be where you want to be.

But you are correct. Moving does get much harder as the kids get older.

 

[Tulip1]

1 hour ago, PatrickA said:

Hi MissMissingEurope

My advice would be to move while your kids are young, you have that advantage. We are also in Perth and moving back to UK in Nov after my daughter finishes her year 12.

We have been in Perth 11 years and i tell you i don't know where the time has flown. My son is aged 13 and not keen to move back.  Few years ago he was keen. We delayed our move so my daughter could finish her year 12.

Everything gets harder as the kids get older, we now having to sort out secondary schools and universities.

Good luck

Patrick

 

 

You may already realise this but I think your child will be classed as an international student in terms of university 

[ali]

I think you have to go with your gut feeling - you've already done the move twice  so you know what to expect and that the grass isn't greener on either side of the hemisphere.  I don't agree that people are protesting too much if they're happy - it is what it is for them ... but for you if it's something different then go with it.  I always say that forever is a long time to be unhappy.

 

[Martinbjulieb]

We were in Perth for 10 years and your reasons for wanting to move back were exactly ours for moving back last March. Definitely do it whilst your kids are younger, ours were 11 and 13 when we came back last year and whilst we haven’t had any real issues, they were both very happy to move, we wish we had been braver a few years before! PM me if you want any help or advice on moving from Perth. I have done a few posts on here with lots of information too. Good luck, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you are mad. We simply could not bear the thought of being in Perth for the rest of our lives and like others have said, once your kids grow up and settle down there might be grand children and then you will be stuck. My biggest nightmare thought was that one day our children would say “right, we’re off to England to see what it is like there for a few years” and us being trapped in Perth! 

[VERYSTORMY]

5 hours ago, MissMissingEurope said:

We would definitely move somewhere totally new for the adventure  Honestly, if we had the money I would happily jump on a plane tomorrow. We have a LOT of saving to do before this becomes a realistic option for us but i'm sure we will get there one day (hopefully in the next 2.5 years, by which time I can get long service leave which will help a lot). 

Depending on what support you have available in the UK, you could do it a lot sooner. We made the decision on a Tuesday and flew the Saturday! Maddest week of our lives selling everything we had in 4 days - I was still manning the garage sale up to leaving for the airport. House was sold after we made the move.

[Martinbjulieb]

5 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

The old thing about people asking almost in horror why you are returning is an old chestnut that I still get now from people here. I then point out that life in Oz doesn't mean just sitting around a pool throwing another prawn on the barbie which is what a lot of them think it is.

To this I just reply, we wanted to come home! ?

[meme78]

hello. don't over think it- kids will be kids wherever- i brought Miss 8 (was then just 6) back and she's doing great. She has no desires to return to Oz and says she barely remembers it now. We've done SO much in the UK since we've been here. London is on our doorstep-we've done the theatres, museums and galleries. We've been camping, visited castles and stately homes. We did our first trip to Spain and it blew her mind- our friends who speak 3 languages introduced her to a world she'd never known and she loved it. We've learned the geography of Europe, met people from so many places, she learns French and Dutch at school. We have things to do every weekend- not always costly- and we don't miss the geographical or cultural isolation that we had in Australia. There is just so much to do here. Sure- winter is testing by February- but so was the Adelaide summer- day after day of not being able to play outside, park equipment being too hot and fearing sunburn. We live near a small beach here and she loves it just the same- it's nothing on an Aussie beach but it's got water, safe swimming and no sharks and plenty of sand to build castles. School is harder here- they push them more and it's less fun. But, what can you do? I find the teachers excellent and the extra curricular stuff really good, if you're keen on that. Our lives here are richer for culture- without a doubt. We aren't outdoorsy, so not being able to do things outside all year doesn't bother us. Generally though, we are more engaged with life and the world. I lived in Perth for a spell and I can see where you're coming from. It is more of the same. There is nowhere to go barring a big drive or flight. Here, we can drive for an hour and be somewhere totally different. And we can catch a plane and the same goes again. Good luck! 

[meme78]

hello. don't over think it- kids will be kids wherever- i brought Miss 8 (was then just 6) back and she's doing great. She has no desires to return to Oz and says she barely remembers it now. We've done SO much in the UK since we've been here. London is on our doorstep-we've done the theatres, museums and galleries. We've been camping, visited castles and stately homes. We did our first trip to Spain and it blew her mind- our friends who speak 3 languages introduced her to a world she'd never known and she loved it. We've learned the geography of Europe, met people from so many places, she learns French and Dutch at school. We have things to do every weekend- not always costly- and we don't miss the geographical or cultural isolation that we had in Australia. There is just so much to do here. Sure- winter is testing by February- but so was the Adelaide summer- day after day of not being able to play outside, park equipment being too hot and fearing sunburn. We live near a small beach here and she loves it just the same- it's nothing on an Aussie beach but it's got water, safe swimming and no sharks and plenty of sand to build castles. School is harder here- they push them more and it's less fun. But, what can you do? I find the teachers excellent and the extra curricular stuff really good, if you're keen on that. Our lives here are richer for culture- without a doubt. We aren't outdoorsy, so not being able to do things outside all year doesn't bother us. Generally though, we are more engaged with life and the world. I lived in Perth for a spell and I can see where you're coming from. It is more of the same. There is nowhere to go barring a big drive or flight. Here, we can drive for an hour and be somewhere totally different. And we can catch a plane and the same goes again. Good luck! Ps. we still manage to swim, cycle and walk and I do yoga- we do all of those things here- just in a different way- we don't have our own pool, but there's plenty of indoor public pools. we can cycle most of the year and walk too- no snakes, mossies and sunburn- just mud  

[Amber Snowball]

7 hours ago, Martinbjulieb said:

We were in Perth for 10 years and your reasons for wanting to move back were exactly ours for moving back last March. Definitely do it whilst your kids are younger, ours were 11 and 13 when we came back last year and whilst we haven’t had any real issues, they were both very happy to move, we wish we had been braver a few years before! PM me if you want any help or advice on moving from Perth. I have done a few posts on here with lots of information too. Good luck, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you that you are mad. We simply could not bear the thought of being in Perth for the rest of our lives and like others have said, once your kids grow up and settle down there might be grand children and then you will be stuck.

My biggest nightmare thought was that one day our children would say “right, we’re off to England to see what it is like there for a few years” and us being trapped in Perth!

(Melbourne for me)

 

Agree with this completely and is why I want to go this year. My son is already talking about working overseas, Canada etc. What happens when pension rules or health mean you can’t move? Doesn’t bear thinking about......