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The (all new) Brexit Thread

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14 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Scots don't think of Scotland as a region, they think of it as a country.  Therefore they compare one country (Scotland) to another country (England).  The whole of Scotland voted remain whereas most of England didn't.  

Yes , and as a whole we voted as the u.k , and the leave vote got 52% - its called democracy 😉


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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3 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

Yes , and as a whole we voted as the u.k , and the leave vote got 52% - its called democracy 😉

Actually, in many countries, possibly most, democratic constitutional change, which is effectively what this is, require two thirds majority.

That's for a reason, and that is called democracy.

You could call what's about to happen to this country many things. But not democracy.

Not now. Not when a virus is affecting us so badly, we can't even have a budget. The majority would never vote to leave with the current state of the economy.

For Christ sakes. Even a madman would delay it a year. This is unprecedented.

Edited by newjez
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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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20 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Scots don't think of Scotland as a region, they think of it as a country.  Therefore they compare one country (Scotland) to another country (England).  The whole of Scotland voted remain whereas most of England didn't.  

There are lots of countries that you can compare Scotland to. Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria for example all of which have populations much closer to Scotland's. Why choose England? If you are going to say it's because (unlike Scotland) they no longer exist as separate countries (not having their own Parliament etc) I'll have to remind you that neither does England.

Edited by Ken

Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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United Kingdom is a country too and voted to leave the EU.

UK trumps Scotland.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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6 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

Yes , and as a whole we voted as the u.k , and the leave vote got 52% - its called democracy 😉

I’m not disputing that. I was replying to Ken


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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2 hours ago, Ken said:

There are lots of countries that you can compare Scotland to. Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria for example all of which have populations much closer to Scotland's. Why choose England? If you are going to say it's because (unlike Scotland) they no longer exist as separate countries (not having their own Parliament etc) I'll have to remind you that neither does England.

Failure to establish one or more english parliaments was the biggest failure of the devolution settlement. I also personally believe this failure was partly to blame for some areas feelign increasingly ignored/forgotten/underrepresented, leaving a vacuum into which Mr Farage was able to place himself. A poor attempt to address this deficit was English Votes for English Laws, which in many ways makes Westminster the defacto English parliament but in a way that is unsuitable for both England, and the other nations of the UK. 

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2 hours ago, Parley said:

United Kingdom is a country too and voted to leave the EU.

UK trumps Scotland.

Indeed, and this realisation in Scotland is why public opinion is now consistently and strongly pro independence. During the first independence referendum the slogans from Wetsminster were "lead us dont leave us", but nowadays its "your vote doesnt matter, we voted leave so you leave too"

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12 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

But one thing is that many French people and all French State functions support the EU and the French state and welcome the EU as a unifying body which safeguards them from the terrible ravages of at least 3 major wars fought on their soil and which no western European  country will risk happening again.

Are you aware that there have been mass riots and protests in France every week for over a year.

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4 hours ago, newjez said:

Actually, in many countries, possibly most, democratic constitutional change, which is effectively what this is, require two thirds majority.

That's for a reason, and that is called democracy.

You could call what's about to happen to this country many things. But not democracy.

Not now. Not when a virus is affecting us so badly, we can't even have a budget. The majority would never vote to leave with the current state of the economy.

For Christ sakes. Even a madman would delay it a year. This is unprecedented.

Didn't you say you want to leave the EU. Have you changed your mind?

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3 hours ago, Ken said:

There are lots of countries that you can compare Scotland to. Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria for example all of which have populations much closer to Scotland's. Why choose England? If you are going to say it's because (unlike Scotland) they no longer exist as separate countries (not having their own Parliament etc) I'll have to remind you that neither does England.

So England is not a country? I’m looking forward to seeing what some other posters have to say about that. 

But actually Scotland has never ceased to be a country


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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1 hour ago, simmo said:

Are you aware that there have been mass riots and protests in France every week for over a year.

Btd ,naivety is astounding 😀

Where do the yellow vests come from ?

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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1 hour ago, simmo said:

Didn't you say you want to leave the EU. Have you changed your mind?

I don't care one way or the other.

There are some advantages to leaving. But these are lost if we leave badly.

If we leave well then fine.

If we leave badly then we should stay or delay.

I'm not British so I see it entirely on economic terms.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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4 hours ago, Parley said:

United Kingdom is a country too and voted to leave the EU.

UK trumps Scotland.

Only for as long as Scotland is in the UK.

The definition of democracy is not trampling over and ignoring minorities.

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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At least the last few pages are actually getting to the nub of the matter.

That is, we don't really like Europeans, think we're better than them and want our borders closing ASAP.

I suppose that honesty finally cuts through the bluff about improved sovereignty, better trade opportunities, more money for the NHS etc. which have all be debunked as fabrications.

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52 minutes ago, s713 said:

At least the last few pages are actually getting to the nub of the matter.

That is, we don't really like Europeans, think we're better than them and want our borders closing ASAP.

I suppose that honesty finally cuts through the bluff about improved sovereignty, better trade opportunities, more money for the NHS etc. which have all be debunked as fabrications.

It's like the gun owners in the US. They'll trot out a hundred questionable reasons why gun ownership is crucial ("protect my property", "2nd amendment rights","prevent oppression by a tyrannical government" etc), whereas the truth is much simpler - "we like guns".  I can never understand why they don't just lead off with that.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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46 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

It's like the gun owners in the US. They'll trot out a hundred questionable reasons why gun ownership is crucial ("protect my property", "2nd amendment rights","prevent oppression by a tyrannical government" etc), whereas the truth is much simpler - "we like guns".  I can never understand why they don't just lead off with that.

I have to admit that I like guns. It's childish, probably even primative. But I do like guns. I like archery too. That doesn't have quite as bad a rap as guns.

But I don't own a gun, nor do I wish to. 

If I lived in America I probably wouldn't own a gun, as I would insist on keeping it in a safe, and I can't imagine trying to open a safe with an intruder in the house.

I think a safe room with a good sturdy door would be the far safer option.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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and why have the le pen family gathered so many votes over the years , if all is well with the e.u ?

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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7 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

whereas the truth is much simpler - "we like guns".

 

7 hours ago, newjez said:

I can't imagine trying to open a safe with an intruder in the house

The Jim Jeffries comedy sketch on Gun control is very funny and makes exactly these points. I didn’t want to post a YouTube link but if you don’t mind a drunk Aussie swearing, it’s worth a watch.

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2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

 but if you don’t mind a drunk Aussie swearing

Is there any other kind? 😉


British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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14 hours ago, simmo said:

Are you aware that there have been mass riots and protests in France every week for over a year.

Source?

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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14 hours ago, simmo said:

Are you aware that there have been mass riots and protests in France every week for over a year.

Yes, the yellow vests, demonstrating against Macron removing advantages for a range of public servants, nothing to do with the EU although Le Pen and her right wwingers have tried to utilise them to foment anti EU feeling and have failed because the French have got more sense.

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9 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Source?

Dyor

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20 minutes ago, simmo said:

Dyor

Didn’t think so.  

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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