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The (all new) Brexit Thread

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48 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Apparently most new migrants accepted into Australia are Indian by birth and have IT skills and/ or telecommunication skills. Which explains why we always get Indian gentlemen fixing up our phone. They are polite, very skilled and good workers.

But why are all the scam callers Indian ?


I want it all, and I want it now.

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58 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Me and the wife are perfect immigrants. Been in jobs, paying taxes, have a house, paid the mortgage off, spend a lot of money locally, don't have any money or even a bank account in the UK. 

 

So far......but as you get older, that could change and it's possible, even probably that you will become a net drain.  Hopefully not and you live a long life in robust health.

I've seen studies quoted on here from sources such as Migration Watch UK showing periods of time that migrants caused a net economic loss in the UK and indeed even in unbiased studies such as from HMRC, DWP, UCL and others, they all tend to agree that migrants into the UK are either a small drain to GDP or a small boost.  It's in the range of -1% to +1% - it really is that tiny.

Those same studies (and this is the bit biased sources like Migrant Watch UK don't share with their audience) have show that UK born population during those same periods of time have been a significant net cost.  Take the 2014 UCL study of the fiscal impact between 1995-2011.  EU Migrants had a £4.4bn positive impact.  Non-EU migrants -£118bn impact.  UK born population -£591bn impact.   

On the face of it we home-born brits are a much bigger drain that the immigrants, but actually on a per capita basis, those numbers equate to about the same.

Whilst I've no doubt that you've had personal experiences of migrants in the UK who have come to suck from the teat of our welfare system, the data shows that from the migrants, the proportion of those types is no different than the proportion who are home grown.  Immigrants come here to build a better life, not steal one.

If this is a subject that interests you, you might enjoy looking at:

  • - OECD International Migration Outlook
  • - Office for budget responsibility Fiscal sustainability report
  • - HMRC Statistics on EEA Nationals
  • - DWP benefit expenditure on EEA national-led claims
  • - hMRC Official Statistics: Income Tax, NICs, Tax Credits and Child Benefit Statistics for EEA Nationals
  • - University College London, The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK
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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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15 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

So far......but as you get older, that could change and it's possible, even probably that you will become a net drain.  Hopefully not and you live a long life in robust health.

I've seen studies quoted on here from sources such as Migration Watch UK showing periods of time that migrants caused a net economic loss in the UK and indeed even in unbiased studies such as from HMRC, DWP, UCL and others, they all tend to agree that migrants into the UK are either a small drain to GDP or a small boost.  It's in the range of -1% to +1% - it really is that tiny.

Those same studies (and this is the bit biased sources like Migrant Watch UK don't share with their audience) have show that UK born population during those same periods of time have been a significant net cost.  Take the 2014 UCL study of the fiscal impact between 1995-2011.  EU Migrants had a £4.4bn positive impact.  Non-EU migrants -£118bn impact.  UK born population -£591bn impact.   

On the face of it we home-born brits are a much bigger drain that the immigrants, but actually on a per capita basis, those numbers equate to about the same.

Whilst I've no doubt that you've had personal experiences of migrants in the UK who have come to suck from the teat of our welfare system, the data shows that from the migrants, the proportion of those types is no different than the proportion who are home grown.  Immigrants come here to build a better life, not steal one.

If this is a subject that interests you, you might enjoy looking at:

  • - OECD International Migration Outlook
  • - Office for budget responsibility Fiscal sustainability report
  • - HMRC Statistics on EEA Nationals
  • - DWP benefit expenditure on EEA national-led claims
  • - hMRC Official Statistics: Income Tax, NICs, Tax Credits and Child Benefit Statistics for EEA Nationals
  • - University College London, The Fiscal Effects of Immigration to the UK

None of them will be bothered I bet.

Populism is something very powerful, it is very powerful psychology that is very difficult to penetrate, because it distils problems down into easily understood easily digested chunks it makes people believe they truly understand things and that simplistic answers are going to be successful, so people are then invested in those answers and cannot be shifted.

Just look at Brexit, criminal justice, drugs supply and use, USA prohibition, immigration, Monarchy, selective education, the list just goes on, simplistic analyses, conspiracy theories now, Q anon simplistic answers.

350 years of liberal thinking and progress being swept away by Watt Tyler think alikes.  

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57 minutes ago, Parley said:

But why are all the scam callers Indian ?

Because they are more inventive and brighter than your average.

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Don’t know that they are Indian. Many are from the Phillipines. Recently I have had calls from parts of Europe,too. I never answer them but the phone records where they are ringing from. 

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

But why are all the scam callers Indian ?

Well even if they are, it doesn't mean all Indian's are scammers and criminals right?  

So if I understand you correctly you are saying this is a lot like Brexit voting??

  • Whilst not all Indians are scammers, all scammers are Indian
  • Whilst not all Brexit voters are racists, all racists voted Brexit.

Yes, I think you've made an excellent point there.  I'd have to agree with you.

 

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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Just now, FirstWorldProblems said:

Well even if they are, it doesn't mean all Indian's are scammers and criminals right?  

So if I understand you correctly you are saying this is a lot like Brexit voting??

  • Whilst not all Indians are scammers, all scammers are Indian
  • Whilst not all Brexit voters are racists, all racists voted Brexit.

Yes, I think you've made an excellent point there.  I'd have to agree with you.

 

Don't put words in my mouth. I never mentioned Brexit at all.

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Just now, Parley said:

Don't put words in my mouth. I never mentioned Brexit at all.

Oh I must have misunderstood. My apologies

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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On 19/09/2020 at 14:27, simmo said:

Who said it would. Those people you polled in Southampton?

There has been discussion on this thread about Brexit stopping the flow of migrants, as if it would stop the refugees as well - I can't even remember who posted, but that's what I'm responding to.

Clearly, Brexit won't have any effect on the open borders within Europe so it won't change a thing for non-EU citizens

Edited by Marisawright

Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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13 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Hairdressers haven't been on the list for a very long time.

Actually they have been on the list till very recently and are only now flagged for removal, somewhat to my surprise considering how many hairdressing shops there are already. 

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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13 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

That's assuming everyone whacks their elderly parents in care homes and expects the government to subsidise the cost.

I guess we could always go the way of the Italians, Spanish, greeks and let the olds move in with the family.

You're forgetting medical costs.  A recent NHS survey is interesting - health costs rise steeply after 50, and an 85-year-old costs the NHS seven times as much as a man in his late 30's.  So even at home, an old person costs the government a packet. It would be the same in Australia. Not to mention pensions. 

That's the reason Australia (and other countries) don't want to accept migrants' parents, they cost the taxpayer a packet.  

People like you and me are win-win for the Aussie taxpayer, I think - we may not have spent our entire working life in Australia paying tax, but on the other hand, we weren't here as kids so the taxpayer didn't pay for our education or child benefits either. And I think both of us could say we've spent most of our working life here. So I think we've paid our way as much as any native Aussie.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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3 hours ago, Marisawright said:

You're forgetting medical costs.  A recent NHS survey is interesting - health costs rise steeply after 50, and an 85-year-old costs the NHS seven times as much as a man in his late 30's.  So even at home, an old person costs the government a packet. It would be the same in Australia. Not to mention pensions. 

That's the reason Australia (and other countries) don't want to accept migrants' parents, they cost the taxpayer a packet.  

People like you and me are win-win for the Aussie taxpayer, I think - we may not have spent our entire working life in Australia paying tax, but on the other hand, we weren't here as kids so the taxpayer didn't pay for our education or child benefits either. And I think both of us could say we've spent most of our working life here. So I think we've paid our way as much as any native Aussie.

So, who does that differ from European migrants?


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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18 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Excellent.

And pensions and aged care is paid out of income, taxes and NI, rather than an individuals investment fund, therefore making a large working population even more essential.

First the government or local authority goes through the assets of the person moving into the care home and that house and savings they have spent their life getting. Usually thinking it would get passed on to their kids, goes towards paying for their place.

My Dad died first and my Mum couldn't carry on living independantly in her own home. My Sister had got her a place in a good retirement home close by. Most of the money from the house and their savings went in the next few years. Me and my Sis weren't that bothered about the money, we preffered to see my Mum comfortable. She was devastated though that they had tried to do the right thing their whole lives. Struggled to pay the mortgage and did without a lot of stuff for years, thinking they would be able to pass it on to me and my Sis. 

Doesn't work like that. If they had gone on holidays abroad, spent it all and rented a property the local authority would have had to pay.

My Mum died a few years ago and the home was good. Not much left of an inheritance though.

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2 hours ago, newjez said:

So, who does that differ from European migrants?

It doesn’t if they arrive relatively young with skills that are in demand. 

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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3 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

I thought British people were Europeans? 

Not really.


I want it all, and I want it now.

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33 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

So what are they?  Celts? Asians? Africans? Americans? 

British people have always distinguished themselves from contintental Europeans. 

Maybe due to the different languages the Europeans all speak.

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31 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Just up themselves???

Not necessarily. If you go to China for instance,  and chat with the locals they can be very interested in your travels especially if you have travelled through "Asian" countries. Chinese people will tell you that they would like to visit "Asia" one day.

Like the Brits not seeing themselves necessarily as European, the Chinese tend to have the same with predisposition with Asia. 

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

Not really.

Of course we are - i love europe .

The greatest continent on the planet .

Europe has it all. 

I just hate the e.u , and its intentions , which will ultimately lead to europes downfall .


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

British people have always distinguished themselves from contintental Europeans. 

Maybe due to the different languages the Europeans all speak.

nonsense - british people probably feel different 

1- because we are an island , and not part of mainland Europe 

2 - we have lost many many lives bringing democracy back to mainland Europe, and got very little thanks , in the scheme of things 

3 - let's call it fate, we are destined NEVER to be part of a federal europe .

4 - in the coming years iam afraid the divide between Britain and the e.u will only grow .

5 - I have no animosity towards any country ,or any peoples within europe - 

ITS JUST THE BLOODY E.U 


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

British people have always distinguished themselves from contintental Europeans. 

Maybe due to the different languages the Europeans all speak.

I think the same goes for Skandies.  National identity is nothing to be ashamed of.  

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1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

Just up themselves???

Charming 😠

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