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The (all new) Brexit Thread

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9 hours ago, newjez said:

You think the immigrants would want to retire in this wet and miserable country which is full of immigrants?

You're a card jezza😂

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1 minute ago, simmo said:

They enter the EU via the Mediterranean, the rest is a jolly boys outing across Europe.

 

Fair enough, but how would Brexit change that?


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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Just now, Marisawright said:

Fair enough, but how would Brexit change that?

Who said it would. Those people you polled in Southampton?

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3 minutes ago, simmo said:

You're a card jezza😂

Why would they? They have loaded up on our really strong currency (all the Indian guys I work with moan about brexit as it is killing the exchange rate) and they are buying investment properties back home for their retirement. Some may stay, but I think the vast majority will retire where it's cheap in the sun. But I think the very best marigold hotel is the best idea. Give a tax incentive for the oldies to migrate where the immigrants live.

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7 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

Fair enough, but how would Brexit change that?

Build a wall!!!!


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2 hours ago, Rallyman said:

You are getting mixed up with illegal immigrants and members of other eu countries. 

It has been a open boarder policy since Tony Blair opened up 2 years earlier than was required to in the treaty he signed and said that around 30k would come per year in reality it was closer to 200k but they didn’t keep any records back then so don’t fully know. 

immigration is good when you have skill shortages but if you all ready have enough bricklayers as an example do you really want unlimited numbers turning up if there is lack of work for existing bricklayers, hence the Australian points system where the lists changes all the time and why it is very different to the eu set up. 

So your own government arranged for lots of migrants to arrive.

Think about that for a bit.

Let the words slowly sink in.

Your own government....

That's it! That's the clue.

Your own government ...

 

 

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Back to Brexit.

UK's exports to the Rest of the World are far outpacing those to the EU

  • In 2019 the UK’s goods exports to the non-EU world soared by 14.1%
  • By sad contrast the UK’s goods exports to the EU27 fell by 1.2%

uk_goods_exports_190920_1.jpg

© Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge

In the last 10 years, the EU has profited more and more from its "Treasure Island"

  • 10 years of a success story for the UK, with the non-EU trade balance improving by 33%
  • 10 years of a sad story for our EU membership, with the UK’s trade defIcit with the EU more than doubling
  • Last year the EU27 ‘made a profit’ of over £95bn on its goods trade with the UK (exports minus imports)

uk_goods_exports_190920_2.jpg

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_sep_brexit_britain_soars

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8 hours ago, Rallyman said:

No , stop drinking in public places and just do the right thing and not throw litter on the ground . 

It's legal to drink in public places in the UK. Or are you talking about Australia now?


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8 hours ago, simmo said:

Back to Brexit.

UK's exports to the Rest of the World are far outpacing those to the EU

  • In 2019 the UK’s goods exports to the non-EU world soared by 14.1%
  • By sad contrast the UK’s goods exports to the EU27 fell by 1.2%

uk_goods_exports_190920_1.jpg

© Brexit Facts4EU.Org - click to enlarge

In the last 10 years, the EU has profited more and more from its "Treasure Island"

  • 10 years of a success story for the UK, with the non-EU trade balance improving by 33%
  • 10 years of a sad story for our EU membership, with the UK’s trade defIcit with the EU more than doubling
  • Last year the EU27 ‘made a profit’ of over £95bn on its goods trade with the UK (exports minus imports)

uk_goods_exports_190920_2.jpg

https://facts4eu.org/news/2020_sep_brexit_britain_soars

There are good sound economic arguments for leaving the EU. As a protectionist ring, the EU is becoming less productive over time. We can find more efficient deals by looking elsewhere. There are certainly advantages seen by individual companies such as JCB and Dyson, which is why they pushed so hard for brexit. But there will be a period of destructive economic upheaval, as efficient industry prospers and inefficient industry fails. But with covid, if we have a unorderly exit, then even companies which can prosper after brexit may not make it that far. In short, if the cost of leaving is greater than the advantage, then there is no economic advantage to brexit.


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23 hours ago, newjez said:

For a long time it was on the list of suitable occupations. As long as you are belittling the occupations of EU migrants.

Who’s belittling anybody’s occupation? 

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On 18/09/2020 at 20:47, Rallyman said:

It’s a very different policy to gain immigration into Australia as you well know compared to the open boarder policy across the EU. 

Completely irrelevant. Whether migration is controlled by the market, or whether it is controlled artificially is completely irrelevant. The end result is the same. Immigration is largely positive.

Edited by newjez
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On 17/09/2020 at 19:31, bunbury61 said:

Why is 1.7 children a problem ? .

So your argument is that we need more people ,so we can pay more taxes , to support our greatest fiscal burden - which is what ????

Social security takes up a nice percentage 

 Our cities are already overcrowded 

And what is the birth rate amongst the new arrivals?

Probably a touch more than 2.4 .

So pray tell us , what do you do, ,when the population reaches 70 or 80 million , and there isn't the houses , schools ,hospital places or jobs , to sustain the number ?- enlighten us .

Please don't say higher taxes - because the higher tax payers will just leave the country , if there is a hint that taxes will be increased - remember the early 70s ? - I do 

During the current covid crisis , the London mayor is now saying 1000s are about to be evicted from rented properties ,because they cannot afford the rents , due to job losses .

What is your answer - add another few million to the population - crazy 

Immigration is largely a function of economic health. As the UK is currently a brexit and covid basket case, I doubt you will have any problems with immigration for the foreseeable future. 

In fact, we will have the situation where despite huge levels of unemployment, the government will be desperately trying to encourage certain groups such as nurses to migrate to the UK. Probably even giving them incentives to do so.

Edited by newjez
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6 hours ago, Rallyman said:

Who’s belittling anybody’s occupation? 

You and simmo.

When you say migrants to Australia contribute to the economy.

But EU migrants don't contribute to the economy.

The only reason for that could be that the EU migrants jobs aren't as important as the Australian migrants jobs.

Or do you have another explanation?

Edited by newjez
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Screenshot_20200920-065637_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20200920-065600_Chrome.jpg

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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10 hours ago, newjez said:

You and simmo.

When you say migrants to Australia contribute to the economy.

But EU migrants don't contribute to the economy.

The only reason for that could be that the EU migrants jobs aren't as important as the Australian migrants jobs.

Or do you have another explanation?

Post where I have belittled any migrants occupation.

Edited by Rallyman

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On 19/09/2020 at 05:27, simmo said:

Who said it would. Those people you polled in Southampton?

So, is it the decrease in the good immigration or the bad immigration causing this?

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/housing-demand-to-collapse-as-population-growth-falters-20200918-p55x2t.html


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On 18/09/2020 at 14:39, newjez said:

I'll let my Hungarian cancer surgeon know that next time I see him Paul.

In fact, I'll let you know that. You're an immigrant aren't you? Or did you forget?

Me and the wife are perfect immigrants. Been in jobs, paying taxes, have a house, paid the mortgage off, spend a lot of money locally, don't have any money or even a bank account in the UK. 

If the UK vetted people like Aus and only accepts people they think will be able to get jobs where you pay tax, settle with their family and be proud of their adoptive country and the chance it gave them brilliant, emigration working, win win situation. Like your Hungarian surgeon and family.

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On 18/09/2020 at 17:57, FirstWorldProblems said:

The two are intrinsically linked aren't they.  As a nation, we've created a big hole for ourselves in our welfare system.  We simply can't afford our retirees.  We can't afford their pensions, we can't afford to give them healthy and we can't afford quality, dignified healthcare.  When I think about the social aspects of our society, these things come to mind first, along with thing like our young being able to get on the property ladder and a community spirit of helping one another out.

Unless we start culling everyone over 70 😀 we have to have more public funding to solve this and for that we need more tax payers and economic growth.  I can't think of another solution.

Since we are organically declining as a population, we need people to come and help us to grow and to contribute as taxpayers.

That's assuming everyone whacks their elderly parents in care homes and expects the government to subsidise the cost.

I guess we could always go the way of the Italians, Spanish, greeks and let the olds move in with the family.

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On 19/09/2020 at 06:55, BacktoDemocracy said:

Why isn’t Australia roaring ahead with all the new blood it gets, could it be that Australia only allows in migrants that fit the mould that the govt decides is acceptable, they don't like anybody who is an entrepreneur or is an original thinker, look at the US between 1870 and 1935 and the UK between 1775 and 1920 and where Australia is today, in fact compare the countries that are the tiger economies of today and Australia's economy.

Aus had the longest run in history of any nation without a recession before covid hit. WA is covid free, the mining, oil and gas sectors are roaring ahead as you put it. Loads of vacant jobs as people that were travelling from interstate can't. 

The list of jobs on the desired occupation changes monthly. If you're lucky enough to be qualified in one of those occupations you would be able to emigrate, even now. There's a very interesting thread from a family who did just that during covid and have settled in Adelaide.

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On 19/09/2020 at 08:09, newjez said:

Hairdressers. Really don't need to expand upon that.

But lets. So, all the ten pound poms were pretty much sponges sucking the Australian lifeblood?

Hairdressers haven't been on the list for a very long time.

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On 19/09/2020 at 12:37, newjez said:

It's legal to drink in public places in the UK. Or are you talking about Australia now?

Is it? Didn't used to be. I definitely remember being warned by the cops on nice evenings when the pub was packed and people were wandering too far away from the pub doorway.

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Apparently most new migrants accepted into Australia are Indian by birth and have IT skills and/ or telecommunication skills. Which explains why we always get Indian gentlemen fixing up our phone. They are polite, very skilled and good workers.

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24 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

That's assuming everyone whacks their elderly parents in care homes and expects the government to subsidise the cost.

 

I didn't assume anything of the sort - the percentage of elderly people in care homes is quite low, around 4% of those aged 65 and over.  The vast majority of elderly people choose to reside in their own home though some certainly receive regular (often daily) care assistance in their home.

This isn't where the bulk of the cost lies.  It sits in medical care and pensions. 

Medical care costs are exponentially rising because we've massively reduced many of the big killers that ended life in decades past (death from heart disease for example has halved in the last 20 years alone) but we haven't yet been able to fix the less urgent things that don't kill us, but make life uncomfortable.  So we have an elderly population today suffering multiple co-morbidities and that is a huge additional demand on the NHS.  There will be some hospital personnel on this forum who can attest to how the demographic in the outpatient waiting list has changed over the past 30 years.

Pensions is a basic economic calculation.   A man born in 1930 had a life expectancy of 59 years, a woman 63.  A man born in 2010 has a life expectancy of 79 years, a woman 83.  So we have to pay out pensions way longer than in the past.  My own grandfather died in 1992, less than 12 months into his retirement, barely putting a ripple in the public pension fund.

The older we get, the more complicated our care often tends to become and the more of it we require. By 2041 projections are that there will be 3 millions people in the uk aged over 80 and with Alzheimers and dementia now the leading cause of death in the UK, one assumption I would be willing to make is that the 4% requiring care home places will absolutely rise as these conditions often require the type of care that isn't easy to provide in the persons home, or even by their family.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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11 minutes ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

I didn't assume anything of the sort - the percentage of elderly people in care homes is quite low, around 4% of those aged 65 and over.  The vast majority of elderly people choose to reside in their own home though some certainly receive regular (often daily) care assistance in their home.

This isn't where the bulk of the cost lies.  It sits in medical care and pensions. 

Medical care costs are exponentially rising because we've massively reduced many of the big killers that ended life in decades past (death from heart disease for example has halved in the last 20 years alone) but we haven't yet been able to fix the less urgent things that don't kill us, but make life uncomfortable.  So we have an elderly population today suffering multiple co-morbidities and that is a huge additional demand on the NHS.  There will be some hospital personnel on this forum who can attest to how the demographic in the outpatient waiting list has changed over the past 30 years.

Pensions is a basic economic calculation.   A man born in 1930 had a life expectancy of 59 years, a woman 63.  A man born in 2010 has a life expectancy of 79 years, a woman 83.  So we have to pay out pensions way longer than in the past.  My own grandfather died in 1992, less than 12 months into his retirement, barely putting a ripple in the public pension fund.

The older we get, the more complicated our care often tends to become and the more of it we require. By 2041 projections are that there will be 3 millions people in the uk aged over 80 and with Alzheimers and dementia now the leading cause of death in the UK, one assumption I would be willing to make is that the 4% requiring care home places will absolutely rise as these conditions often require the type of care that isn't easy to provide in the persons home, or even by their family.

Excellent.

And pensions and aged care is paid out of income, taxes and NI, rather than an individuals investment fund, therefore making a large working population even more essential.

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48 minutes ago, starlight7 said:

Apparently most new migrants accepted into Australia are Indian by birth and have IT skills and/ or telecommunication skills. Which explains why we always get Indian gentlemen fixing up our phone. They are polite, very skilled and good workers.

But why are all the scam callers Indian ?


I want it all, and I want it now.

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