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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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3 minutes ago, simmo said:

I think most of this needs to be under "stop the boats"

One last point.  None of those going on about the economics seem to care about the social impact on mass population growth. 

The two are intrinsically linked aren't they.  As a nation, we've created a big hole for ourselves in our welfare system.  We simply can't afford our retirees.  We can't afford their pensions, we can't afford to give them healthy and we can't afford quality, dignified healthcare.  When I think about the social aspects of our society, these things come to mind first, along with thing like our young being able to get on the property ladder and a community spirit of helping one another out.

Unless we start culling everyone over 70 😀 we have to have more public funding to solve this and for that we need more tax payers and economic growth.  I can't think of another solution.

Since we are organically declining as a population, we need people to come and help us to grow and to contribute as taxpayers.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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Just now, FirstWorldProblems said:

The two are intrinsically linked aren't they.  As a nation, we've created a big hole for ourselves in our welfare system.  We simply can't afford our retirees.  We can't afford their pensions, we can't afford to give them healthy and we can't afford quality, dignified healthcare.  When I think about the social aspects of our society, these things come to mind first, along with thing like our young being able to get on the property ladder and a community spirit of helping one another out.

Unless we start culling everyone over 70 😀 we have to have more public funding to solve this and for that we need more tax payers and economic growth.  I can't think of another solution.

Since we are organically declining as a population, we need people to come and help us to grow and to contribute as taxpayers.

So we create a huge ponzi scheme?

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4 minutes ago, simmo said:

read the report OVERALL 

The second report is more equivocal about the effects of immigration on low paid workers but does not consider the problems of where the workforce is going to come from to do the essential low paid jobs they do at present, on the evidence from this year it does not seem that the indigenous population have much of an appetite for them.

what none of the papers considered either was the problem of population replacement, either in terms of bringing in sexually active age groups who will produce children nor considering that we need that low age demographic who have at least 25 years of productive work in them right now. But that opens up a whole different discussion about UK education policy and society's acceptance of non university educated youngsters as essential and valued members of society, something that the UK simply cannot get its head around. This pandemic is exposing those chasms in our society all too vividly in agriculture, in social care and medicine  and elsewhere.

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Our social welfare system is a form of group insurance.  It's not a ponzi scheme. It's current failings come from not predicting (or acting on the predictions) the rising age of the population and the costs that brings.

What are your alternative suggestions? Clearly I can see that you are very good at knocking other people for having ideas, you enjoy laughing at people express concern for the future of our country and it's population, but what are your thoughts on how we do look after our elderly and the next generation who will become elderly in the decades to come.  Do you have actual ideas?  You're evidently passionate which is great - passion is what gets things done -  but I don't think I've seen you offer up anything at all that is constructive.

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British  | Lived in Australia 2001-02 on 457   | Married Aussie wife & moved back to UK | Plan to return to Sydney 2026 when all kids have finished school

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2 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Our social welfare system is a form of group insurance.  It's not a ponzi scheme. It's current failings come from not predicting (or acting on the predictions) the rising age of the population and the costs that brings.

What are your alternative suggestions? Clearly I can see that you are very good at knocking other people for having ideas, you enjoy laughing at people express concern for the future of our country and it's population, but what are your thoughts on how we do look after our elderly and the next generation who will become elderly in the decades to come.  Do you have actual ideas?  You're evidently passionate which is great - passion is what gets things done -  but I don't think I've seen you offer up anything at all that is constructive.

How about we import millions of immigrants??  Oh hang on.... what happens when they get old?  and what about the welfare that we need to pay for their families here and back home??

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3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

The area we lived in had a huge influx of polish immigrants, they opened their own shops and posted signs stating “Polish only “

but would sell alcohol to under age , police had shop shut in the end . There was a group that would drink vodka at end of public footpath near our home and  would dump their empties there , at least 10-15 bottles per week. 

That's why you need a container deposit scheme. No one's going to dump a pile of cash on the footpath.


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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4 hours ago, simmo said:

How about we import millions of immigrants??  Oh hang on.... what happens when they get old?  and what about the welfare that we need to pay for their families here and back home??

Awww bless, Simmo trying to apply daily Mail thinking to complex problems again

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5 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Awww bless, Simmo trying to apply daily Mail thinking to complex problems again

What? Feel free to explain.

Edited by simmo

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8 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

The two are intrinsically linked aren't they.  As a nation, we've created a big hole for ourselves in our welfare system.  We simply can't afford our retirees.  We can't afford their pensions, we can't afford to give them healthy and we can't afford quality, dignified healthcare.  When I think about the social aspects of our society, these things come to mind first, along with thing like our young being able to get on the property ladder and a community spirit of helping one another out.

Unless we start culling everyone over 70 😀 we have to have more public funding to solve this and for that we need more tax payers and economic growth.  I can't think of another solution.

Since we are organically declining as a population, we need people to come and help us to grow and to contribute as taxpayers.

See my solution above.

Instead of moving the immigrants here, we move the old people there.

Easy to do, just start taxing pensions draw in the UK, and you will be crushed in the stampede of old people leaving.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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8 hours ago, FirstWorldProblems said:

Our social welfare system is a form of group insurance.  It's not a ponzi scheme. It's current failings come from not predicting (or acting on the predictions) the rising age of the population and the costs that brings.

What are your alternative suggestions? Clearly I can see that you are very good at knocking other people for having ideas, you enjoy laughing at people express concern for the future of our country and it's population, but what are your thoughts on how we do look after our elderly and the next generation who will become elderly in the decades to come.  Do you have actual ideas?  You're evidently passionate which is great - passion is what gets things done -  but I don't think I've seen you offer up anything at all that is constructive.

Logan's run.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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6 hours ago, simmo said:

How about we import millions of immigrants??  Oh hang on.... what happens when they get old?  and what about the welfare that we need to pay for their families here and back home??

You think the immigrants would want to retire in this wet and miserable country which is full of immigrants?

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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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6 hours ago, Ken said:

That's why you need a container deposit scheme. No one's going to dump a pile of cash on the footpath.

No , stop drinking in public places and just do the right thing and not throw litter on the ground . 

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13 hours ago, newjez said:

So, are you saying that all the posters who immigrated to Australia have contributed very little to Australia? I think some may beg to differ. Or are you saying immigration to Australia is good, whereas immigration to England is bad?

It’s a very different policy to gain immigration into Australia as you well know compared to the open boarder policy across the EU. 

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5 hours ago, simmo said:

What? Feel free to explain.

Well we have an immediate problem which requires the short term solution of immigration because otherwise what is left of our economy is going to fall over, so we can only prop up what we have. In the medium term we are going to have to restructure our economy and do a number of things, one is raise taxes on those who can pay and stop tax avoidance schemes like tax havens and make sure that taxes are collected from those who at present avoid them. We are going to have to revolutionise our democracy by making the second chamber an elected chambe like every modern dekocracy.  In the long term we are going to have to make our society an inclusive society by getting rid of the barriers to that, like getting shut of the Manarchy and the myriad of hangars on and those bastions of privilege,  private schools which we the taxpayers subsidise for the upper classes by exempting them from taxation on their assets, invested cash and income

If your average Mail and Express reader could just start to wrestle with those complexities and understand that carrying on as before is no longer an option maybe the country might have a chance, otherwise we are doomed to be a failed State in 25 years, on a par with Eastern Europe and simply controlled by the corrupt mega rich of America and Russia who use us as a hiding place and laundry for their criminal proceeds.

we still have an option, clean up our democracy or face a continuation of our inevitable decline

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3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

It’s a very different policy to gain immigration into Australia as you well know compared to the open boarder policy across the EU. 

Why isn’t Australia roaring ahead with all the new blood it gets, could it be that Australia only allows in migrants that fit the mould that the govt decides is acceptable, they don't like anybody who is an entrepreneur or is an original thinker, look at the US between 1870 and 1935 and the UK between 1775 and 1920 and where Australia is today, in fact compare the countries that are the tiger economies of today and Australia's economy.

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4 hours ago, Rallyman said:

It’s a very different policy to gain immigration into Australia as you well know compared to the open boarder policy across the EU. 

Hairdressers. Really don't need to expand upon that.

But lets. So, all the ten pound poms were pretty much sponges sucking the Australian lifeblood?

Edited by newjez
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Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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4 hours ago, Rallyman said:

No , stop drinking in public places and just do the right thing and not throw litter on the ground . 

Wouldn't it be nice if everyone did the right thing?  For anyone who didn't know otherwise, Covid has illustrated that it's impossible to get everyone to "do the right thing".  There's too large a proportion of the world's population that is either bolshie or thick as two short planks - and they will always do the wrong thing (and spoil it for the rest of us).   They need either a carrot or a stick to persuade them to behave - and since a stick is now politically incorrect, carrots must be offered.

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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4 hours ago, Rallyman said:

It’s a very different policy to gain immigration into Australia as you well know compared to the open boarder policy across the EU. 

...but there isn't an open border policy between the EU and the UK, except for EU citizens, and they are not the ones on the boats.  So how is it different?

Edited by Marisawright
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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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2 hours ago, Marisawright said:

...but there isn't an open border policy between the EU and the UK, except for EU citizens, and they are not the ones on the boats.  So how is it different?

You are getting mixed up with illegal immigrants and members of other eu countries. 

It has been a open boarder policy since Tony Blair opened up 2 years earlier than was required to in the treaty he signed and said that around 30k would come per year in reality it was closer to 200k but they didn’t keep any records back then so don’t fully know. 

immigration is good when you have skill shortages but if you all ready have enough bricklayers as an example do you really want unlimited numbers turning up if there is lack of work for existing bricklayers, hence the Australian points system where the lists changes all the time and why it is very different to the eu set up. 

Edited by Rallyman
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They seem to be ‘boarders’ too when they arrive. Do they get lodging free?

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22 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

You are getting mixed up with illegal immigrants and members of other eu countries. 
 

Sorry, I thought you were talking about illegal immigrants (because this thread is about "stopping the boats"), which is why I was confused.  

On the Brexit thread, people were going on about Brexit stopping the refugees and I was making that exact point, that leaving the EU won't stop the refugees.   It will stop EU citizens and I thought that's what many Brexiteers wanted.

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Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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2 hours ago, newjez said:

Hairdressers. Really don't need to expand upon that.

But lets. So, all the ten pound poms were pretty much sponges sucking the Australian lifeblood?

Sorry your not making any sense 

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4 hours ago, newjez said:

Hairdressers. Really don't need to expand upon that.

But lets. So, all the ten pound poms were pretty much sponges sucking the Australian lifeblood?

Hairdressers?

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Just now, simmo said:

Hairdressers?

For a long time it was on the list of suitable occupations. As long as you are belittling the occupations of EU migrants.


Nearly there! Don't drop the ball now guys! Vaccines are weeks away. Stay safe!

 

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