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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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1 hour ago, Collie said:

To be made in Europe btw.  Oh, the irony.

The irony being?

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3 hours ago, simmo said:

DOWNING Street has mocked the European Union for its bizarre behaviour in the run-up to Brexit trade talks.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1246044/brexit-news-eu-trade-deal-boris-johnson-michel-barnier-eu-budget-latest

The Express online, it's unbelievable

Sensational headlines to attract clicks wrapped around supposed facts,  real clickbait 'journalism'

But even they recognise the incongruity of 'our new' passports being produced by cheap labour in the EU

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1246021/brexit-news-latest-british-blue-passport-rollout-france-Thales-poland-boris-johnson

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The e.u is about to get another population rise .

Turkey is opening its borders with greece to deal with the syrian migrants 

It's not going to end well for the e.u .

Just another nail in the e.u coffin 


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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3 hours ago, bunbury61 said:

The e.u is about to get another population rise .

Turkey is opening its borders with greece to deal with the syrian migrants 

It's not going to end well for the e.u .

Just another nail in the e.u coffin 

I won’t end well for us either as they’ll join the tens of thousands that try and successfully manage to reach the UK. 

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10 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I won’t end well for us either as they’ll join the tens of thousands that try and successfully manage to reach the UK. 

Are there really tens of thousands? What are the stats?


Scot by birth, emigrated 1985 | Aussie husband applied UK spouse visa Jan 2015, granted March 2015, moved to UK May 2015 | Returned to Oz June 2016

"The stranger who comes home does not make himself at home but makes home itself strange." -- Rainer Maria Rilke

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16 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I won’t end well for us either as they’ll join the tens of thousands that try and successfully manage to reach the UK. 

Tens of 1000s ? 

In the hundreds 


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Are there really tens of thousands? What are the stats?

13000 according to the UN (so double) plus the chancers spotting the opportunity to gatecrash.(double again)

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1 hour ago, bunbury61 said:

Tens of 1000s ? 

In the hundreds 

 

1 hour ago, bunbury61 said:

Tens of 1000s ? 

In the hundreds 

Wrong. There are far more than hundreds. Last year there were over 1.800 caught trying to cross the channel in small boats/dingys. But, by far the highest amounts still get here by road, mainly in lorries. There have been so many occasions people have seen groups getting out of lorries on the motorways and making a run for it. I used to work with someone who lived right next to the M1. Many times people in that village saw them running across the fields. We’ve surely all seen the clips of lorry doors opening and suddenly men jump out and make a run for it.  Only this week someone was jailed for getting caught having 3 people hidden in their car roof box. Last year all those Vietnamese were found dead inside a refrigerated lorry. It is impossible to put a figure on the amount as for every one that is caught, there are many more that aren’t. I watched something on tv about it and It said that the ones that are caught are a fraction of the ones that aren’t. It is reasonable to believe that is true as of course only a percentage will ever get caught. There’s been many a washed up dingy/dingy hidden in the rocks with no one to be seen and we all know of the many that are seen running from lorries. Far more would drive to a remote spot in darkness and let them out though. Therefore based on the fact the ones caught run into many thousands, the true figure is very likely to run into tens of thousands. There are over 3 million in the Turkish refugee camp and it’s crazy not to think a chunk will try and reach here. 

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8 hours ago, Marisawright said:

Are there really tens of thousands? What are the stats?

I’ve actually answered this under bunbury1 so I won’t repeat it here. Only to say though that providing true stats are impossible as you cannot put a figure on the many that do not get caught. The ones that do get caught though certainly run into thousands. 

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17 minutes ago, Tulip1 said:

 

Wrong. There are far more than hundreds. Last year there were over 1.800 caught trying to cross the channel in small boats/dingys. But, by far the highest amounts still get here by road, mainly in lorries. There have been so many occasions people have seen groups getting out of lorries on the motorways and making a run for it. I used to work with someone who lived right next to the M1. Many times people in that village saw them running across the fields. We’ve surely all seen the clips of lorry doors opening and suddenly men jump out and make a run for it.  Only this week someone was jailed for getting caught having 3 people hidden in their car roof box. Last year all those Vietnamese were found dead inside a refrigerated lorry. It is impossible to put a figure on the amount as for every one that is caught, there are many more that aren’t. I watched something on tv about it and It said that the ones that are caught are a fraction of the ones that aren’t. It is reasonable to believe that is true as of course only a percentage will ever get caught. There’s been many a washed up dingy/dingy hidden in the rocks with no one to be seen and we all know of the many that are seen running from lorries. Far more would drive to a remote spot in darkness and let them out though. Therefore based on the fact the ones caught run into many thousands, the true figure is very likely to run into tens of thousands. There are over 3 million in the Turkish refugee camp and it’s crazy not to think a chunk will try and reach here. 

Yes , they are being processed and deported


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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6 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Yes , they are being processed and deported

Certainly the ones that get caught are processed and can be deported. But, the fact is that almost all that get here remain. Only 6% of those caught are removed from the country.  It’s madness but it’s true.  I expect of the small amount that get deported, they’ll just as likely try and get back but even if they don’t we still have many thousands arrive every year and almost all get to remain. 

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Posted (edited)

I suspect that we will not be having such discussions once the UK adopts what it has called an Australian-type immigration policy. Australia deports between 800 and 1000  persons per year,  .Once deported you stay deported, unless you have a very very good lawyer.

th?id=OIP.e7st-tPMnK3j60bjPsv1MwHaFi&w=1

Edited by Dusty Plains

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1 hour ago, simmo said:

13000 according to the UN (so double) plus the chancers spotting the opportunity to gatecrash.(double again)

Turkey is hosting 3.7 million Syrian refugees, as well as migrants from other countries such as Afghanistan and Africa.

(Double that)

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1 hour ago, Tulip1 said:

Certainly the ones that get caught are processed and can be deported. But, the fact is that almost all that get here remain. Only 6% of those caught are removed from the country.  It’s madness but it’s true.  I expect of the small amount that get deported, they’ll just as likely try and get back but even if they don’t we still have many thousands arrive every year and almost all get to remain. 

Tulip - do you have anyone who is working within the industry , because I do ,or are you going off media reports ?

That's not a loaded question , and iam not looking for an argument .

On the legal ( e.u ) immigration into the uk .

I have travelled in and out of mainland europe quite a lot recently , and the border has tightened considerably .

But , there was only so much u.k customs could do , when you have people from all over the world , coming into the u.k ,on previously purchased legitimate , purchased e.u passports .

People on Czech republic , Estonia or Latvian passports for example , who have never set foot in the place .

That door has now  hopefully been shut .

Very soon ,the blue u.k passports will be rolled out , if they havent already .

I see ireland being the next pinch point , because the u.k and ireland have a reciprocal arrangement over residency ,and I can see migrants pouring into ireland to try to gain entry into the u.k .

Border controls are about to be tightened .

We are now a free ,independent country ,that has  it's own immigration policy .

I see this morning , the Austrians are calling for their border to be closed .

We now have this issue because of previous u.s administrations warmongering within the middle east , and the e.u leaderships total incompetence , allowing in 1 million migrants without any thought for the repercussions , we now ,wouldn't be getting wave after wave of migrants ,pouring into countries , within the e.u  that  can barely support themselves , such as greece and italy .

The e.u is now doing the exact opposite , and trying to shut the borders , to a situation ,they facilitated .

The days of globalisation are over , and the nation state is about to be reborn .

 

 

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Tulip - do you have anyone who is working within the industry , because I do ,or are you going off media reports ?

That's not a loaded question , and iam not looking for an argument .

On the legal ( e.u ) immigration into the uk .

I have travelled in and out of mainland europe quite a lot recently , and the border has tightened considerably .

But , there was only so much u.k customs could do , when you have people from all over the world , coming into the u.k ,on previously purchased legitimate , purchased e.u passports .

People on Czech republic , Estonia or Latvian passports for example , who have never set foot in the place .

That door has now  hopefully been shut .

Very soon ,the blue u.k passports will be rolled out , if they havent already .

I see ireland being the next pinch point , because the u.k and ireland have a reciprocal arrangement over residency ,and I can see migrants pouring into ireland to try to gain entry into the u.k .

Border controls are about to be tightened .

We are now a free ,independent country ,that has  it's own immigration policy .

I see this morning , the Austrians are calling for their border to be closed .

We now have this issue because of previous u.s administrations warmongering within the middle east , and the e.u leaderships total incompetence , allowing in 1 million migrants without any thought for the repercussions , we now ,wouldn't be getting wave after wave of migrants ,pouring into countries , within the e.u  that  can barely support themselves , such as greece and italy .

The e.u is now doing the exact opposite , and trying to shut the borders , to a situation ,they facilitated .

The days of globalisation are over , and the nation state is about to be reborn .

 

 

I don’t know anyone working in that industry, which I assume you mean border control. I am not just going by media. I have seen these things on the tv news and I have watched a detailed programme in which border control/immigration officials did all the talking. We have all seen the many people picked up in the channel on border force vessels and from lorries. You don’t need to know someone in the industry to know them things happened unless they were all staged and shown as fake news on both the bbc and sky news which I’m sure you know isn’t what happened. I think you’re mixing two separate things up. I am not referring at all to the people that have entered the country legally which includes anyone with an EU passport.  I am talking about people who get to the country illegally and attempt to stay here either by evading the officials or by trying to claim asylum. None of those people care less about us getting blue passports in the future or about us coming out of the EU.  The door isn’t suddenly shut to people who have no right to be here, it’s always been shut which is why these people have to enter illegally via a back route. You think they will stop doing that because we’ve come out of the EU? The only thing that could change is we get tougher on giving everyone asylum and send more back. As a civilised country we won’t return people who can demonstrate they will face persecution or wrong doing. In fact we aren’t allowed to. We all know these people know the right things to say. Many of the men say they’re gay and it’s forbidden in their country. The programme I saw, it was a panorama type programme, found as part of their investigations, organised groups who set up gay marriages for these people in hidden venues. They weren’t gay, they’d never even seen their new husband but it did the trick. A bust was shown on the programme with border force stopping a wedding and arresting people.   I wish rules were tighter but sadly they’re not. You say border controls are about to be tightened. Are you referring to stopping anyone without a legitimate passport/visa? That’s great but that doesn’t change one thing about the back route option. They don’t care we now have our own immigration policy or that they don’t have enough points to get a skilled visa. That won’t stop them giving it a go. 

Edited by Tulip1
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2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I don’t know anyone working in that industry, which I assume you mean border control. I am not just going by media. I have seen these things on the tv news and I have watched a detailed programme in which border control/immigration officials did all the talking. We have all seen the many people picked up in the channel on border force vessels and from lorries. You don’t need to know someone in the industry to know them things happened unless they were all staged and shown as fake news on both the bbc and sky news which I’m sure you know isn’t what happened. I think you’re mixing two separate things up. I am not referring at all to the people that have entered the country legally which includes anyone with an EU passport.  I am talking about people who get to the country illegally and attempt to stay here either by evading the officials or by trying to claim asylum. None of those people care less about us getting blue passports in the future or about us coming out of the EU.  The door isn’t suddenly shut to people who have no right to be here, it’s always been shut which is why these people have to enter illegally via a back route. You think they will stop doing that because we’ve come out of the EU? The only thing that could change is we get tougher on giving everyone asylum and send more back. As a civilised country we won’t return people who can demonstrate they will face persecution or wrong doing. In fact we aren’t allowed to. We all know these people know the right things to say. Many of the men say they’re gay and it’s forbidden in their country. The programme I saw, it was a panorama type programme, found as part of their investigations, organised groups who set up gay marriages for these people in hidden venues. They weren’t gay, they’d never even seen their new husband but it did the trick. A bust was shown on the programme with border force stopping a wedding and arresting people.   I wish rules were tighter but sadly they’re not. You say border controls are about to be tightened. Are you referring to stopping anyone without a legitimate passport/visa? That’s great but that doesn’t change one thing about the back route option. They don’t care we now have our own immigration policy or that they don’t have enough points to get a skilled visa. That won’t stop them giving it a go. 

Tighter all around 


BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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2 hours ago, Tulip1 said:

I don’t know anyone working in that industry, which I assume you mean border control. I am not just going by media. I have seen these things on the tv news and I have watched a detailed programme in which border control/immigration officials did all the talking. We have all seen the many people picked up in the channel on border force vessels and from lorries. You don’t need to know someone in the industry to know them things happened unless they were all staged and shown as fake news on both the bbc and sky news which I’m sure you know isn’t what happened. I think you’re mixing two separate things up. I am not referring at all to the people that have entered the country legally which includes anyone with an EU passport.  I am talking about people who get to the country illegally and attempt to stay here either by evading the officials or by trying to claim asylum. None of those people care less about us getting blue passports in the future or about us coming out of the EU.  The door isn’t suddenly shut to people who have no right to be here, it’s always been shut which is why these people have to enter illegally via a back route. You think they will stop doing that because we’ve come out of the EU? The only thing that could change is we get tougher on giving everyone asylum and send more back. As a civilised country we won’t return people who can demonstrate they will face persecution or wrong doing. In fact we aren’t allowed to. We all know these people know the right things to say. Many of the men say they’re gay and it’s forbidden in their country. The programme I saw, it was a panorama type programme, found as part of their investigations, organised groups who set up gay marriages for these people in hidden venues. They weren’t gay, they’d never even seen their new husband but it did the trick. A bust was shown on the programme with border force stopping a wedding and arresting people.   I wish rules were tighter but sadly they’re not. You say border controls are about to be tightened. Are you referring to stopping anyone without a legitimate passport/visa? That’s great but that doesn’t change one thing about the back route option. They don’t care we now have our own immigration policy or that they don’t have enough points to get a skilled visa. That won’t stop them giving it a go. 

You are quite right that as a civilised country the UK cannot return anyone to France who can show that they have been tortured or otherwise been abused by France. However most of these so called asylum seekers arriving from France are claiming to have been abused in a third country. They should not be allowed to make such claims. Only torture etc in the country they have fled from (France) should be relevant to their asylum claim. If they don't have a genuine case send them back to France.

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Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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2 minutes ago, Ken said:

You are quite right that as a civilised country the UK cannot return anyone to France who can show that they have been tortured or otherwise been abused by France. However most of these so called asylum seekers arriving from France are claiming to have been abused in a third country. They should not be allowed to make such claims. Only torture etc in the country they have fled from (France) should be relevant to their asylum claim. If they don't have a genuine case send them back to France.

I couldn’t agree more.  That said, it’s never happened and I doubt it ever will.  It’s a bad situation for many European countries and I don’t know what the answer is. 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Tighter all around 

That sounds great. 

Edited by Tulip1

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Remember all the people you talk about are human beings caught up in wars and conflicts often not of their making, remember before the 2nd WW Briitain and the US limited the number of visas for continental Jews so 6 million died, 

Remember after the 2nd WW some 17 million DP's were found new homes across the world, including in Australia, the difference in the main was that they were white. 

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