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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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2 hours ago, Parley said:

Really. What an odd thing to say.

Who is he a puppet for ? I hope you aren't going to say Donald Trump or you will lose all credibility.

you need to have "credibility" before you can lose it.......

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13 hours ago, newjez said:

Cummings delegates to Boris?

Yep, we get that.

So are you saying that Prime ministers.....Presidents.....and other world leaders don't have advisers around them......?

 

Tony Blair......Alastair Campbell

Gordon Brown......Damien Mcbride

David Cameron......Steve Hilton

I think "naive" is to think that these people get to where they are on their own.......its one thing taking advice from a preferred individual......but its a whole new ball game having your strings pulled by terrorist organisations like they did........and still do in ROI.......

 

Edited by kungfustu
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7 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Ever thought of emigrating BTD?😉

I did and I found that democracy was still in its infancy elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, kungfustu said:

So are you saying that Prime ministers.....Presidents.....and other world leaders don't have advisers around them......?

 

Tony Blair......Alastair Campbell

Gordon Brown......Damien Mcbride

David Cameron......Steve Hilton

I think "naive" is to think that these people get to where they are on their own.......its one thing taking advice from a preferred individual......but its a whole new ball game having your strings pulled by terrorist organisations like they did........and still do in ROI.......

 

Why the constant jibes which are just designed to be insulting, I simply do not understand the motivation, beyond it just being contentious for the sake of it.

The last time I saw it so clearly was in the school playground 60 years ago.

What does it add to the point which is that in post brexit Britain we see an unelected member of the PM's team exercising great power in changing the way in which this country has been democratically run for close on 200 years and those changes will not be able to be reversed once made and the changes will concentrate power into the hands of the PM, transforming that role into one closer to being a president with far fewer constraints on his actions.

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There have been a number of reports for insulting/racist comments and behaviours.  Despite numerous warning on the thread and constantly tidying up it continues.  I know that a lot of people are unhappy about the moderating - but I would suggest that instead you look at your own contribution to the threads and if what you have posted is appropriate.  

We have some of the team, who don't like moderating this section of the forum and for the rest of us it's become pretty time consuming and stops us from contributing elsewhere.  I've asked admin to look at the value of this section of the forum which is becoming almost impossible to moderate - a potential solution is to get rid of this section of the forum altogether making moderation much easier and more enjoyable for the majority of our members.

We're open to any sensible solutions on how to deal with this - it seems asking the membership to not resort to insults has fallen on deaf ears.

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I just want PIO to be a happy place where people are nice to each other and unicorns poop rainbows

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I vote Get Rid of so much which adds 0 value.

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5 minutes ago, ali said:

There have been a number of reports for insulting/racist comments and behaviours.  Despite numerous warning on the thread and constantly tidying up it continues.  I know that a lot of people are unhappy about the moderating - but I would suggest that instead you look at your own contribution to the threads and if what you have posted is appropriate.  

We have some of the team, who don't like moderating this section of the forum and for the rest of us it's become pretty time consuming and stops us from contributing elsewhere.  I've asked admin to look at the value of this section of the forum which is becoming almost impossible to moderate - a potential solution is to get rid of this section of the forum altogether making moderation much easier and more enjoyable for the majority of our members.

We're open to any sensible solutions on how to deal with this - it seems asking the membership to not resort to insults has fallen on deaf ears.

How can any of us contribute without believing in our own positions so for us to contribute we can only say that our position is the correct one, what I would say is that I, personally try to make my statements based around facts and try to substantiate my opinions, but enough of self justification.

My other comments are that I find there are posters on numerous threads who simply post to be provocative and contentious without ever contributing informed or realistic arguments that contribute to the threads, where does that leave people who want to consider the issues of the day in a serious manner without continuous insulting jibes. 

I can only suggest that the rules do not fit the problem which appears to be one of bullying by a few people intent upon deciding that their view is the only view and being entrenched in that view and when invited to make a reasoned argument for those views either can't  or won't  leading to frustration and acrimony.

So as mods do you make judgements on the validity of standpoints and views, apply the rules blindly but seemingly supporting those with somewhat illiberal views or close this whole section because there are a few people who consistently express very illiberal views and continue to do so regardless.

And so the argument devolves into a childish argument about who started it all

I personally would mourn the loss of this section of the site but I can see the problem and at the end of the day it is about censorship, whether that is self censorship or a more draconian set of requirements enforced more rigidly.

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39 minutes ago, ali said:

There have been a number of reports for insulting/racist comments and behaviours.  Despite numerous warning on the thread and constantly tidying up it continues.  I know that a lot of people are unhappy about the moderating - but I would suggest that instead you look at your own contribution to the threads and if what you have posted is appropriate.  

We have some of the team, who don't like moderating this section of the forum and for the rest of us it's become pretty time consuming and stops us from contributing elsewhere.  I've asked admin to look at the value of this section of the forum which is becoming almost impossible to moderate - a potential solution is to get rid of this section of the forum altogether making moderation much easier and more enjoyable for the majority of our members.

We're open to any sensible solutions on how to deal with this - it seems asking the membership to not resort to insults has fallen on deaf ears.

Not wanting to add fuel to the blaze but just look at the laughing face quotient as response to any argument that is substantiated by a reasoned argument and who posts those laughing faces consistently.

I am forced to actually comment when I look back thro pages of posts with quite illiberal views which are often based around stereotypes and supported by some very obscure websites.

I don’t  know what the answer is  where does freedom of speech end and purely being insulting begin.Perhaps some other contributors could give us their rationales.

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2 hours ago, ali said:

There have been a number of reports for insulting/racist comments and behaviours.  Despite numerous warning on the thread and constantly tidying up it continues.  I know that a lot of people are unhappy about the moderating - but I would suggest that instead you look at your own contribution to the threads and if what you have posted is appropriate.  

We have some of the team, who don't like moderating this section of the forum and for the rest of us it's become pretty time consuming and stops us from contributing elsewhere.  I've asked admin to look at the value of this section of the forum which is becoming almost impossible to moderate - a potential solution is to get rid of this section of the forum altogether making moderation much easier and more enjoyable for the majority of our members.

We're open to any sensible solutions on how to deal with this - it seems asking the membership to not resort to insults has fallen on deaf ears.

 

2 hours ago, ali said:

There have been a number of reports for insulting/racist comments and behaviours.  Despite numerous warning on the thread and constantly tidying up it continues.  I know that a lot of people are unhappy about the moderating - but I would suggest that instead you look at your own contribution to the threads and if what you have posted is appropriate.  

We have some of the team, who don't like moderating this section of the forum and for the rest of us it's become pretty time consuming and stops us from contributing elsewhere.  I've asked admin to look at the value of this section of the forum which is becoming almost impossible to moderate - a potential solution is to get rid of this section of the forum altogether making moderation much easier and more enjoyable for the majority of our members.

We're open to any sensible solutions on how to deal with this - it seems asking the membership to not resort to insults has fallen on deaf ears.

Lets see if any other posters can be bothered to take up the challenge and try to give us a rationale and try to substantiate why they find it necessary to abandon the normal rules of discourse just because they are anonymous on a website which seemingly gives freedoms they wouldn't have in face to face encounters. Or maybe I'm wrong and that is their normal personae.

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Might be time to call it a day on this thread, Brexit is done.

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Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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On 14/02/2020 at 10:57, BacktoDemocracy said:

How can any of us contribute without believing in our own positions so for us to contribute we can only say that our position is the correct one, what I would say is that I, personally try to make my statements based around facts and try to substantiate my opinions, but enough of self justification.

My other comments are that I find there are posters on numerous threads who simply post to be provocative and contentious without ever contributing informed or realistic arguments that contribute to the threads, where does that leave people who want to consider the issues of the day in a serious manner without continuous insulting jibes. 

I can only suggest that the rules do not fit the problem which appears to be one of bullying by a few people intent upon deciding that their view is the only view and being entrenched in that view and when invited to make a reasoned argument for those views either can't  or won't  leading to frustration and acrimony.

So as mods do you make judgements on the validity of standpoints and views, apply the rules blindly but seemingly supporting those with somewhat illiberal views or close this whole section because there are a few people who consistently express very illiberal views and continue to do so regardless.

And so the argument devolves into a childish argument about who started it all

I personally would mourn the loss of this section of the site but I can see the problem and at the end of the day it is about censorship, whether that is self censorship or a more draconian set of requirements enforced more rigidly.

Just like to say thanks to you and @calNgary for all the work you do.  I know it must be frustrating and feel thankless sometimes but you need to know that you are appreciated.  🌹OK i've had to bottles of old rosie but i really love you i do!!!

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I'm not sure you get how politics works.
And no.... Find out yourself.



I know you don’t (get how politics works).

Yes, please do (find out yourself).
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On 14/02/2020 at 17:40, amibovered said:

Might be time to call it a day on this thread, Brexit is done.

Ish

We're still sending the cheques aren't we?

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Ish

We're still sending the cheques aren't we?

 

 

The histrionics will continue undoubtedly. Saw on Sky UK that Boris is aiming at the EU because they aren’t rolling over and prioritising the UK in trade deal talks. Quelle surprise.

 

We’ve left the EU now (technically), so I’ll (mainly) be tuning out to the inevitable shit-storm, for the rest of the year, because I’m over it.

 

I’ll be checking the news to see how spiffingly the transition is progressing, but I don’t think at the point anything will surprise me. Except maybe Herr Cummings and the hold he has on British ‘Democracy’

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7 hours ago, ssiri said:

Herr Cummings 

Here we go.

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8 hours ago, ssiri said:

 

Boris Johnson warns EU not to be ‘ridiculous’ over trade deal conditions

PRIME Minister Boris Johnson will tell the EU that it is being unreasonable and ridiculous in its conditions for a trade deal - and that Britain will walk away unless there is a change of heart.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1242892/brexit-news-boris-johnson-uk-eu-trade-deal-latest-conditions-government-draft-mandate

Edited by simmo
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6 minutes ago, simmo said:

Boris Johnson warns EU not to be ‘ridiculous’ over trade deal conditions

PRIME Minister Boris Johnson will tell the EU that it is being unreasonable and ridiculous in its conditions for a trade deal - and that Britain will walk away unless there is a change of heart.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1242892/brexit-news-boris-johnson-uk-eu-trade-deal-latest-conditions-government-draft-mandate

And on and on and on it goes.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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6 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

And on and on and on it goes.

Yes, especially as the UK is very well aware of rules for protecting trade being undercut by countries on your border, as we and the French bloody well wrote them to protect ourselves !  Where there's no threat because it's too expensive for export, say in like er...Canada, the rules are not needed because transport costs make up the gap and make them uncompetitive without a deal in place.  Just Johnson getting his excuses ready again, it's all in the paperwork he agreed to......just the same as the border checks were.  A mass of extra red tape.

Anyway, back to the real world, this is quite an interesting read.

 

 


"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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5 minutes ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

Yes, especially as the UK is very well aware of rules for protecting trade being undercut by countries on your border, as we and the French bloody well wrote them to protect ourselves !  Where there's no threat because it's too expensive for export, say in like er...Canada, the rules are not needed because transport costs make up the gap and make them uncompetitive without a deal in place.  Just Johnson getting his excuses ready again, it's all in the paperwork he agreed to......just the same as the border checks were.  A mass of extra red tape.

Anyway, back to the real world, this is quite an interesting read.

 

 

Seems Gunther has blocked me?

Typical FBPE cult behaviour.  Block anyone I disagree with.

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3 hours ago, simmo said:

Seems Gunther has blocked me?

Typical FBPE cult behaviour.  Block anyone I disagree with.

Maybe he just doesn't rate the quality of your discourse? 


"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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1 minute ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

Maybe he just doesn't rate the quality of your discourse? 

Thanks for you comment Slean.

Maybe not.   That's up to Gunther.

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5 hours ago, simmo said:

Boris Johnson warns EU not to be ‘ridiculous’ over trade deal conditions

PRIME Minister Boris Johnson will tell the EU that it is being unreasonable and ridiculous in its conditions for a trade deal - and that Britain will walk away unless there is a change of heart.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1242892/brexit-news-boris-johnson-uk-eu-trade-deal-latest-conditions-government-draft-mandate

The EU, didn't we used to be in that?


Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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On 14/02/2020 at 17:40, amibovered said:

Might be time to call it a day on this thread, Brexit is done.

Sadly , it's just starting .

The e.u needs to fill a 62 BILLION EUROS OVER 7 YEARS HOLE , LEFT BY BRITAIN .

The squabbling has already started within the e.u .

The french are sending out the word that they are going to play hard ball , in relation to a deal that must include fishing rights 😂😂😂😂😂.

Britain now has a team of 40 working on any future arrangements .

I hope ,its a hard brexit on WTO rules , with a few agreements for the car industry etc .

Clean break , and start again as friends and partners , but with no alignment .

We can then assist from the outside when the e.u ship starts to sink .

It's taking on water already 

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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18 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Sadly , it's just starting .

The e.u needs to fill a 62 BILLION EUROS OVER 7 YEARS HOLE , LEFT BY BRITAIN .

The squabbling has already started within the e.u .

The french are sending out the word that they are going to play hard ball , in relation to a deal that must include fishing rights 😂😂😂😂😂.

Britain now has a team of 40 working on any future arrangements .

I hope ,its a hard brexit on WTO rules , with a few agreements for the car industry etc .

Clean break , and start again as friends and partners , but with no alignment .

We can then assist from the outside when the e.u ship starts to sink .

It's taking on water already 

Yes, it's been widely noted that they are trying to cherry pick!!!!


Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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