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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-border-checks-trade-michael-gove-eu-a9328211.html

 

Quote

Michael Gove admits Brexit will bring years of confusion at borders as trade checks imposed

Michael Gove has admitted to years of confusion at Britain’s borders because of Brexit, with goods checks now “inevitable” – but a new IT system not ready until 2025.

In a speech to traders, the cabinet office minister laid bare the realities of leaving the single market and customs union after the controversy was avoided during the election campaign.

Warning “almost everybody” who exports to the EU will face new barriers, Mr Gove highlighted checks on food and goods of animal origin, customs declarations and the need for safety and security certificates.

“You have to accept we will need some friction,” he told businesses at the London event, adding: “We will minimise it, but it is an inevitability of our departure.”

The Freight Transport Association raised the alarm after Mr Gove insisted the checks must come in on 1 January 2021, at the end of the transition period – but it would be 2025 before new technology arrived.

“We are naturally disappointed that the promise of frictionless trade has been replaced with a promise that trade will be as seamless as possible but not until 2025,” said Elizabeth de Jong, its policy director

Traders would have cope with a “costly ‘make do and mend’ approach” until then she warned, although few details appeared to have been given.

During his successful election campaign, Boris Johnson was criticised for arguing he would “get Brexit done” by the end of January, largely ignoring the huge challenges to follow.

Now Mr Gove has acknowledged it is likely to take five years to deliver a smart border, allowing smooth online checks on goods, yet firms must be ready for “significant change” in under 11 months.

He told the event: “The UK will be outside the single market and outside the customs union, so we will have to be ready for the customs procedures and regulatory checks that will inevitably follow.

“As a result of that we will be in a stronger position, not just to make sure that our economy succeeds outside the European Union but that we are in a position to take advantage of new trading relationships with the rest of the world,” he claimed.

The checks will come in if Mr Johnson achieves his aim of a loose ‘Canada-style’ agreement with the EU – what used to be called a hard Brexit.

Ms de Jong added: “Gove put to rest [Chancellor Sajid] Javid’s assertion that industry had plenty of time to prepare. It is encouraging for industry that he said he does not underestimate what needs to be done.”

And Richard Ballantyne, chief executive of the British Ports Association, said: “We may not like what we are hearing, but if you get a clear message than you can plan.”

The five year wait for a smart border will pose the biggest challenge in the Irish Sea, where the withdrawal agreement made a legal commitment to introduce checks.

The prime minister has repeatedly denied they will be necessary – but the EU warned of sanctions if there was any backsliding. 

capitulation with no systems in place.  Where have i heard that before...Project Fear?

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"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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2025 for the technology 😂. Think of a number and add 10, Cf. HS2 and Universal Credit. Useless dickheads.

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Just now, s713 said:

2025 for the technology 😂

IT System with unknown business requirements...so 2030 at least?  NHS fiasco was the best, the worst IT failure in the world and that cost 10 billion.  They're just kicking this can up the road, they have no plan for anything.


"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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12 minutes ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

IT System with unknown business requirements...so 2030 at least?  NHS fiasco was the best, the worst IT failure in the world and that cost 10 billion.  They're just kicking this can up the road, they have no plan for anything.

Simmo does agile.

He'll have a MVP in a couple of sprints.

I hear he's a bit of a Wiz with SQL.

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26 minutes ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

IT System with unknown business requirements...so 2030 at least?  NHS fiasco was the best, the worst IT failure in the world and that cost 10 billion.  They're just kicking this can up the road, they have no plan for anything.

They could tempt a lot of COBOL programmers out of retirement to patch up the old system.

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15 hours ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

 

 

It really is pathetic how easily these nutjobs have just lied and lied and got away with it.

I hope all those northeners are really happy now that they have emasculated the opposition.

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What I want to know is where have all those brexiteers have gone to now that we see the truth about Johnson, Gove's and Farage's lies.

All that crowing and within 2 weeks its all just coming apart as the truth has to told.

And most of the country will still be waving their silly little flags

They were warned.

Edited by BacktoDemocracy

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I wonder why remoaners come across as bitter and twisted.😂

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10 minutes ago, simmo said:

I wonder why remoaners come across as bitter and twisted.😂

And maybe you'll be able to work out an answer for yourself one day  🤡

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"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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4 minutes ago, simmo said:

I wonder why remoaners come across as bitter and twisted.😂

I'll tell you why, because the brexiteers have never stopped with the jibes of snowflake and remoaner,  suck it up, when we kept on pointing out that Boris had a long history of laziness and of being a bare faced liar and that the people who were clustered around him were on the whole, not quite the full shilling and had got to where they are by being bumlickers and 'free trade' zealots. 

So now when the cards have to go down on the table and we find the EU has all the aces we are naturally pointing out what we said all along, they are 26 countries with a population of 270 million and with countries begging to get into the club, we are 1 country with a pop of 63? million and dependent on a psychotic country some 000's of miles from us to give us a trade deal which will make us a true vassal state

So I'm afraid that as the lies unfold and our weaknesses are laid out bare for all to see, I for one will be reminding the brexiteers of all the warnings that were so triumphalistically   jeered at.

 

Quote

Barnier says in other trade talks, if agreement cannot be reached, they take more time. The Canada deal took seven years. In the meantime, the status quo was retained.

But in this talks, if there is no deal, the status quo will not maintain.

At the end of 2020 the UK will leave the single market and customs union and revert to WTO terms, he says.

He says the EU will have to impose checks, and quotas and tariffs on British produce. That is what will happen if both sides fail to meet the time constraints imposed by the British PM.

He says he does not forget Europe’s debt to the UK, particularly in the dark hours of the last century.

He says he has listened to what is being said by some politicians in the UK, of the use that could be made of the right to diverge.

He says he expects the new negotiating mandate to be agreed on 25 February.

He says he wants, “calmly but firmly”, to stress that the opening of EU markets, data access, equivalences for financial services, will be proportionate to the commitments entered into for a true level playing field.

End

And

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2020/feb/11/uk-gdp-economy-growth-q4-2019-carney-lagarde-powell-business-live

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EU SEEKING “UNIQUE” FTA WITH UK
 
 

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has confirmed the UK will get a bespoke trade deal with the EU, rather than a carbon copy of another country’s settlement. Another victory for Vote Leave, who always said the UK would secure exactly this…

In a statement to the EU Parliament in Strasbourg, von der Leyen said she was willing to negotiate a zero tariff and zero quota relationship for goods – something that no third country currently enjoys with the bloc. However, the Ursula von der Leyen did say the EU is seeking a level playing field…

This is not the sting in the tail many think it is. Brexiteers shouldn’t confuse a level playing field with regulatory alignment, or even ‘dynamic’ alignment with EU rules. Even the EU’s ‘Canada deal’  has some shallow level playing field provisions, and Leavers should keep an open mind to the phrase – as long as it is along the lines of non-regression rather than rule taking. The devil is in the detail, not the soundbites

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5 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

What I want to know is where have all those brexiteers have gone to now that we see the truth about Johnson, Gove's and Farage's lies.

All that crowing and within 2 weeks its all just coming apart as the truth has to told.

And most of the country will still be waving their silly little flags

They were warned.

They are all here and we have left the EU job done, so why should they post, its only the bitter and twisted who cannot accept we have left who are still commenting, it aint going to change mate, the UK has left the EU.

image.jpeg.e79318ddbd31b84737e460d0758aa24f.jpeg

Edited by Perthbum
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Drinking rum before 11am does not make you an alcoholic, it makes you pirate..

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1 hour ago, simmo said:
EU SEEKING “UNIQUE” FTA WITH UK
 
 

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has confirmed the UK will get a bespoke trade deal with the EU, rather than a carbon copy of another country’s settlement. Another victory for Vote Leave, who always said the UK would secure exactly this…

In a statement to the EU Parliament in Strasbourg, von der Leyen said she was willing to negotiate a zero tariff and zero quota relationship for goods – something that no third country currently enjoys with the bloc. However, the Ursula von der Leyen did say the EU is seeking a level playing field…

This is not the sting in the tail many think it is. Brexiteers shouldn’t confuse a level playing field with regulatory alignment, or even ‘dynamic’ alignment with EU rules. Even the EU’s ‘Canada deal’  has some shallow level playing field provisions, and Leavers should keep an open mind to the phrase – as long as it is along the lines of non-regression rather than rule taking. The devil is in the detail, not the soundbites

Posting this rubbish doesn't really help simmo.

The EU have stated their position three years ago, and it hasn't really changed. Trying to pretend the EU means something else isn't going to help.

ATM Boris isn't going to meet the EU, which is fine. But in order to do that he needs an agreement elsewhere. Upsetting the USA isn't going to help him here.

I'm hoping Boris has a plan, but it's certainly not obvious what he is trying to achieve. He is giving a good impression of Arthur daily, with Cummings as his minder keeping the con going for as long as he can, with no obvious way out.

He may surprise us. But it's certainly not clear how.

Edited by newjez
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3 hours ago, simmo said:
EU SEEKING “UNIQUE” FTA WITH UK
 
 

EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has confirmed the UK will get a bespoke trade deal with the EU, rather than a carbon copy of another country’s settlement. Another victory for Vote Leave, who always said the UK would secure exactly this…

In a statement to the EU Parliament in Strasbourg, von der Leyen said she was willing to negotiate a zero tariff and zero quota relationship for goods – something that no third country currently enjoys with the bloc. However, the Ursula von der Leyen did say the EU is seeking a level playing field…

This is not the sting in the tail many think it is. Brexiteers shouldn’t confuse a level playing field with regulatory alignment, or even ‘dynamic’ alignment with EU rules. Even the EU’s ‘Canada deal’  has some shallow level playing field provisions, and Leavers should keep an open mind to the phrase – as long as it is along the lines of non-regression rather than rule taking. The devil is in the detail, not the soundbites

Vote leave don't really understand 'level playing field' do they, Canada doesn't really have to have a level playing field does it, it has no coterminous borders, nor much of a financial market, nor much of a manufacturing sector but it took several years to sort out that FTA, please try to treat people with some respect for their intelligence.

A level playing field IS going to involve us in being a rule taker if we want a deal, there is simply no way round that, unless of course we want to trade on WTO rules and as we all know that comes with more rules than with the EU.

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24 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

A level playing field IS going to involve us in being a rule taker if we want a deal, there is simply no way round that, unless of course we want to trade on WTO rules and as we all know that comes with more rules than with the EU.

I think it's the language employed that's the problem.  This whole Brexit charade has been communicated as "us and them"...which suits the narrative that's been pumped out by the right wing media on a daily basis.  Get the proles onside, it's a warlike footing etc..   It's pretty ugly stuff.

We have our own freakin' rules we'd like the EU to follow....we just spent 3 years trying to enforce our "red lines" on the EU, which we then decided we didn't want anymore.  The facts are, the EU have consistently laid out their stance from Day 1, but the UK has been unable to show consistency in anything except foot stamping.  The EU have published everything so the public from both sides are aware of negotiations...there is no hidden agenda.

It is entirely up to the UK to negotiate and accept the cost of Brexit, and spin that as a victory to it's people.  Nobody else has to pretend anything.

 

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"Nationalism is an infantile disease, it is the measles of mankind." Albert Einstein

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On 05/02/2020 at 15:14, newjez said:

So you think people who marry Europeans are a bit thick? Or is it just Europeans east of the UK?

Why east of the UK? Do you have any statistics that show there's a higher level of intelligence in Europeans west of the UK?


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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1 hour ago, Ken said:

Why east of the UK? Do you have any statistics that show there's a higher level of intelligence in Europeans west of the UK?

You misread simmo's statement. Shame on you. You are usually on the ball. Simmo wasn't calling Eastern Europeans thick. He was calling an English person thick for marrying one, which is a very different statement.

But you would need to take that up with simmo.

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On 11/2/2020 at 15:38, Perthbum said:

They are all here and we have left the EU job done, so why should they post, its only the bitter and twisted who cannot accept we have left who are still commenting, it aint going to change mate, the UK has left the EU.

image.jpeg.e79318ddbd31b84737e460d0758aa24f.jpeg

How many times, leaving is the easy bit, any fool can do that and he has with a set of agreements which are already biting him in the bum because they were never scrutinised.

But the hard part is going to be getting a trade deal that actually protects Britain's interests and because the UK will try to do all of this in secret we will probably not know how crap of a deal we will get until it starts to go wrong.

So you may think that the brexiteers have won, won, won, but the realists in the world know that the EU holds all the aces and if they refuse to give way in the negotiations then we are stuffed within 6 months, look at the trade figures for December, we  only need that repeated for 6 months and we are dead in the water.

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Prime Minister Cummings wielding the axe again. To think it was unelected officials in the EU people didn't like.

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36 minutes ago, s713 said:

Prime Minister Cummings wielding the axe again. To think it was unelected officials in the EU people didn't like.

OMG.

I thought Sunak was getting a lot of gigs, Boris and Cummings are a vengeful pair, Javid tried to upstage Boris on HS2 didn’t he,

Well it's all down hill from now, no one will speak out to curb Boris now will they and as with all lazy toads Boris will throw his weight around once too often and make a real FU like with Radcliffe but worse.

Hang on to your 'privates' the negotiations with the EU are going to be a rough ride.

Did anyone see in private eye that Farage and Tice are the main shareholders in the brexit party which is a limited company with cash at bank from donations of around 8 million pounds and we all know how rule conscious Farage is after fiddling his EU expenses.

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RESHUFFLE

Did anyone see this coming and as noted above the Treasury and Treasury will be Cummimg's puppets

Hello autocracy, hello the right wing coup, is their anyone left in this govt who didn't go to a private school and didn't do PPE, Sunak went to Winchester and has a PPE  degree, is there a Grammar school boy or girl left.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/13/boris-johnson-reshuffle-whos-in-whos-out-at-a-glance

All straight out of " Dictatorship for fascist Dummies"

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1 hour ago, s713 said:

Prime Minister Cummings wielding the axe again. To think it was unelected officials in the EU people didn't like.

Except this one is a paranoid psycho.

Maybe that's the saving grace, even the right wing will suss him.

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2 hours ago, s713 said:

Prime Minister Cummings wielding the axe again. To think it was unelected officials in the EU people didn't like.

I think Fürher/Fuehrer Cummings is a more approriate title.

Fuehrer:

 

A leader, especially one exercising the powers of a tyrant.

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51 minutes ago, Collie said:

I think Fürher/Fuehrer Cummings is a more approriate title.

Fuehrer:

 

A leader, especially one exercising the powers of a tyrant.

would that be because everyone you disagree with is a nazi?

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11 minutes ago, simmo said:

would that be because everyone you disagree with is a nazi?

No, it's because of his actions.

Who is he to tell the Chancellor of the Exchequer who can/can't advise him?

You guys give out about the EU but can't see what's happening under your nose.

Educate yourself.

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