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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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15 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Either you have a remarkably pro European network, or pro Brexit people have given up talking about it because they get so much grief.

Well they were mostly people who now live in Australia and they do say travel broadens the mind.

Also, maybe being immigrants themselves, they can more appreciate the benefits immigration brings to an economy and society.

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Oliver Callan: DUP objections to NI-only backstop are phoney

North already diverges from many significant laws enacted across the rest of the UK

about 4 hours ago
9
Northern Ireland  also uses a similar standard measure of spirit alcohol as the Republic, 35ml, compared to the standard single shot of 25ml in England, Scotland and Wales. Northern Ireland also uses a similar standard measure of spirit alcohol as the Republic, 35ml, compared to the standard single shot of 25ml in England, Scotland and Wales.
 

The Northern Ireland-only backstop is on the agenda again after it was abandoned at the behest of the DUP, instead extended UK-wide, leading to the Brexit impasse.

The NI-only option is increasingly the solution to Britain’s crisis, best summed up as a mad effort to turn an emotional referendum result into a technical and diplomatic arrangement.

The House of Commons may find that the only way out is to vote for a Northern-only backstop, if not by October 31st then perhaps by the end of next January. It would prevent a hard border through regulatory alignment, kicking in if no trade deal was agreed between the UK and EU by December 2022.

The DUP and hardline Tories’ beef with the backstop is based on hysterical claims that if triggered, the North would be separated from the rest of the UK, effectively uniting Ireland under EU rules no longer applicable in Britain.

Their point of principle is rather bankrupt when it’s pointed out that the North already diverges from major laws enacted across the rest of the UK.

The examples most often cited are the North’s moribund bans on abortion and equal marriage, legalised in Britain in 1967 and 2014 respectively. However, the North practices regulatory divergence in many other areas and actively campaigns for more, even while it condemns the backstop’s alleged threat to pluck it cruelly from the bosom rules of the United Kingdom.

Some of them we can see with our own eyes on the roads and in the pubs. Northern Ireland has a different car registration system from the rest of the UK, based on the original 1904 number plate system of letters followed by numbers.

Related

The code has been upgraded several times in Britain, as recently as 2001, but the North has not followed. The North has different bank holidays. By including St Patrick’s day and the Twelfth of July, it enjoys ten public holidays compared to the eight in England and Wales.

 
The North shares the same railway track gauge as the Republic for obvious reasons, which at 1600mm is wider than the British system of 1435mm. The North also uses a similar standard measure of spirit alcohol as the south, 35ml, compared to the standard single shot of 25ml in England, Scotland and Wales.

The British Gambling Act 2005 doesn’t apply in Northern Ireland. The cut to the top stake in fixed odds gambling terminals, announced in the UK’s 2019 Budget, didn’t apply in the North.

The Defamation Act 2013 isn’t applicable in Northern Ireland either. Nor is it covered by the Equality Act passed in the Houses of Parliament in 2010. This has left the North accused of having the poorest protections against racial discrimination in the UK.

The DUP’s other main objection to the backstop is that regulatory alignment would create a border down the Irish Sea. The Good Friday Agreement already created such a border in a number of areas in a spirit of North-South cooperation. For this reason, the promotion of tourism, trade and business development, as well as regulation of languages, lighthouses, waterways and food safety is done on an all-island basis, with a line firmly down the Irish Sea. In the case of Safefood, the staff responsible for the operation across Northern Ireland is based in Cork.

Even before the North-South implementation bodies were created in 1998, Northern Ireland diverged from the rest of Britain in its system of public service. Since partition, it exists as an entirely separate entity from the United Kingdom Civil Service. As a result, the North, with its population of 1.9 million, has 35,000 workers in the civil service, compared to Scotland’s 50,000 working for a population of 5.4 million. If you add in local government and quangos, a third of the entire Northern Ireland workforce is employed in public service.

Far from decrying this vast, and often beneficial, divergence from the rest of the UK, the DUP has lobbied to separate its constituents from even more British rules it doesn’t fancy. It has called for the North to have its own corporation tax rate, cut to 12.5 per cent, to put it on level pegging with the Republic.

It wants to abolish Air Passenger Duty in NI, even though it already charges different airport taxes on long haul flights into Belfast compared to the rest of the UK. And the DUP called for a Northern-only cut to VAT rates on hospitality after the Republic brought in a special nine per cent rate to boost tourism during austerity.

The backstop would not only protect the border and its daily use by people, goods and services, it would guarantee the all-island institutions set up under the Good Friday Agreement that have been lauded on both sides of the divide. The DUP’s show of fear and angst about regulatory divergence from Britain, and claims that backstop alignment might create a tacit united Ireland, are phoney.

There is already Northern separation from Britain when it comes to car number plates, bank holidays, tourism, languages, gambling, defamation, anti-discrimination laws, spirit measures, railway lines, lighthouses, waterways, the civil service, abortion and equal marriage.

The backstop, if ever needed, would merely continue a trend already celebrated by many in Northern Ireland, including the DUP.

Oliver Callan is a writer and satirist

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8 hours ago, Parley said:

And yet 52% voted for it. And you have never met one. How odd ?

Most people are ashamed to admit it in public

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4 hours ago, starlight7 said:

With my cousins who still live in the UK- the Northerners voted for Brexit and the Southerners to remain. Seems to be typical. I don't think any of them have changed their minds as far as I know. It is sad really - I remember how happy I felt ( from afar) when they joined Europe.  I thought everything was rosy and the future was bright for Europe (not for us over here who missed out commercially). I also thought it was a good check against the good old domineering USA.

We are swapping one for the other.

Some call it independence.

I call it a joke.

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7 hours ago, Collie said:

Also, maybe being immigrants themselves, they can more appreciate the benefits immigration brings to an economy and society.

It’s about controlling immigration not open door policy 

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2 hours ago, newjez said:

Most people are ashamed to admit it in public

PIO comedy gold , are you being serious? 

Now your comment does deserve a 😂😂😂😂😂 several 😂😂😂😂

Edited by Rallyman
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19 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

It’s about controlling immigration not open door policy 

Oh, is it, whats your opinion of 458,000 overseas students get to stay after they graduate, you've been had by a party renowned for loving cheap immigrant labour.

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12 hours ago, Collie said:

Yep, but I've not been in Brexitland since the referendum.

All the expats I have come across think it's ludicrous.  Draw your own conclusions, maybe it says something about people who travel and leave abroad, maybe not 

Funny that 'cos a lot of the expats we know here think it's a good idea.There's a fair few against it too but overall brexit gets more support. At least we can have a chat about it here and not have someone resort to name calling or look like they're going to have a coronary.

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12 hours ago, Collie said:

Yep, but I've not been in Brexitland since the referendum.

All the expats I have come across think it's ludicrous.  Draw your own conclusions, maybe it says something about people who travel and leave abroad, maybe not 

Funny that 'cos a lot of the expats we know here think it's a good idea.There's a fair few against it too but overall brexit gets more support. At least we can have a chat about it here and not have someone resort to name calling or look like they're going to have a coronary.

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12 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

If your life depends on drugs and radioactive isotopes from the EU then I do not think that  'it may cost lives' is scaremongering, it is a statement of fact.

You may just have to recognise there are real consequences to this populism and self interest.

You mean the UK can't manufacture it's own isotopes? And there are heaps of options for drug supply. Most of them come from American companies. Might be via the EU but that's where they're manufactured.

Brexit doesn't mean that the EU will stop trading either. The companies will still want your money.

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4 hours ago, newjez said:

Most people are ashamed to admit it in public

They're probably more sick of being called a knuckle dragging racist thicky. It's easier not to talk about it. The vote got up, their side won, no need to get into an argument with the losers.

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1 hour ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Oh, is it, whats your opinion of 458,000 overseas students get to stay after they graduate, you've been had by a party renowned for loving cheap immigrant labour.

Hopefully a lot of those students will want to return to their country of origin. They only go to the UK for a decent uni education they are willing to pay for. 

It's a lot the same with Unis here. UWA is full of Asians. Maybe some of them see it as a back door into Aus and the UK?

If that's the case it's a loophole that needs closing.

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3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

It’s about controlling immigration not open door policy 

Is it?

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1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

In what way?

Listen to the reports which have been published.

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1 hour ago, Paul1Perth said:

Hopefully a lot of those students will want to return to their country of origin. They only go to the UK for a decent uni education they are willing to pay for. 

It's a lot the same with Unis here. UWA is full of Asians. Maybe some of them see it as a back door into Aus and the UK?

If that's the case it's a loophole that needs closing.

You can't have it both ways. Either they are included in the immigration figures or they aren't.

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8 hours ago, Rallyman said:

 

 

5 hours ago, newjez said:

Listen to the reports which have been published.

Are they on audible?

Edited by simmo

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10 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

You mean the UK can't manufacture it's own isotopes? And there are heaps of options for drug supply. Most of them come from American companies. Might be via the EU but that's where they're manufactured.

Brexit doesn't mean that the EU will stop trading either. The companies will still want your money.

Why do I always have to provide the info.

Inconvenient truths?

Quote

The UK Government is already planning for significant delays at ports in the event that we leave the EU without a deal. It is also likely that UK haulage drivers would lose their rights to operate within the EU. Expectations of unprecedented impediments to imports (as well as exports) have given rise to official advice that pharmaceutical suppliers should stockpile six weeks’ worth of medicines.

In a letter to all NHS organisations at the end of August, Health Secretary Matt Hancock attempted to address the no-deal uncertainty regarding radioisotope supply. In an apparent admission that ports could prove unworkable, he wrote that in the event of no-deal the government would make “separate arrangements for the air freight of medicines with short shelf-lives, such as medical radioisotopes”.

This brief skeleton of a plan did not address Dr Dickson’s concerns, and in fact raises more questions than it seeks to answer.

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9 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Hopefully a lot of those students will want to return to their country of origin. They only go to the UK for a decent uni education they are willing to pay for. 

It's a lot the same with Unis here. UWA is full of Asians. Maybe some of them see it as a back door into Aus and the UK?

If that's the case it's a loophole that needs closing.

Sorry, that all sounds a bit wishy washy, 

Hopefully doesn't really cut it, its a bit like all those advantages to brexit.

The Tories have always loved cheap labour from overseas and here they are, at a stroke giving industry just what they want as wage inflation goes to 2-4% 

Wake up, the Tories want out of the EU because of the EU work regulations and produce standards, they want to get rid of all of those.

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So the EU don't care if British People die from missing out on their precious isotopes.

Yet another reason we need to break away from those uncaring bastards.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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2 minutes ago, Parley said:

So the EU don't care if British People die from missing out on their precious isotopes.

Yet another reason we need to break away from those uncaring bastards.

We are leaving them. Its not them kicking us out. They have formed an agreement with us, but we wouldn't pass it because of our problems with northern Ireland.

Thought you might understand it by now.

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