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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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And yet again, an explanation of the spread of conspiracy theories from extrems on all sides and how they are destroying our democracy. 

How Farage uses the warped weirdos from the left to push his conspiracy theorie

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/14/to-see-how-extremism-has-taken-root-in-britain-look-at-islington-north

Cameron never had a clue as to what he was unleashing, arrogant little toff boy, not a clue.

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17 hours ago, Parley said:

Not implementing the result of the referendum was definitely un democratic if that is what you mean.

I wonder if there has ever been another referendum where the government did not implement the result ?

Do you know of any in history anywhere in the world where this has happened 

Denmark, Ireland a couple of times, Greece.

But did you not read the section on direct democracy versus representative democracy? Direct democracy would seem to be more 'democratic' but it does not allow for changes in the world after the event, and so when the results are actually implemented, they may no longer represent the views of the people.

Maybe you need to read it again.

Here is another

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/01/24/why-a-second-referendum-would-not-be-undemocratic/&ved=2ahUKEwioyL3S3NHkAhWOQxUIHWRvCV0QFjALegQIBBAH&usg=AOvVaw0FTscwajhWa4dB5iqT4eI4&cshid=1568512699335

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1 hour ago, newjez said:

Denmark, Ireland a couple of times, Greece.

But did you not read the section on direct democracy versus representative democracy? Direct democracy would seem to be more 'democratic' but it does not allow for changes in the world after the event, and so when the results are actually implemented, they may no longer represent the views of the people.

Maybe you need to read it again.

Here is another

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/01/24/why-a-second-referendum-would-not-be-undemocratic/&ved=2ahUKEwioyL3S3NHkAhWOQxUIHWRvCV0QFjALegQIBBAH&usg=AOvVaw0FTscwajhWa4dB5iqT4eI4&cshid=1568512699335

I like that statement that they should repeat the referendum until the people get the answer right. Haha

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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2 hours ago, Parley said:

I like that statement that they should repeat the referendum until the people get the answer right. Haha

I won't give you more examples because Marisa gave you an excellent one, and more examples aren't going to help. It's not that you don't understand.

You guys got the decision you wanted, and even if the majority shifted so you are now in the minority, you are going to desperately hold onto that decision regardless.

But don't pretend that it is protecting democracy, or it would be undemocratic to vote again. 

This is about winning. It's not about democracy. You guys want to win. I get that. 

But if democracy takes that win away from you, you should respect that.

Edited by newjez
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35 minutes ago, newjez said:

But if democracy takes that win away from you, you should respect that.

And the only reason that would be for, is that the job has proven impossible to do by those who are responsible for governing and administering.  Those with the opportunity to step up for what they believe in, haven't.  The rest haven't been motivated to contribute.

 

 

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19 hours ago, simmo said:

what a stupid meme.  I haven't met one Brit (leave or remoaner) who has said they don't want immigrants.

Do you not use mirrors?

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21 hours ago, simmo said:

what a stupid meme.  I haven't met one Brit (leave or remoaner) who has said they don't want immigrants.

Of course not. They just want to control their borders, but not to stop immigrants, no, we want heaps of immigrants, we just want to be able to choose them, or rather the government will choose them, and pay very little attention to what the people actually want, but we will have taken back control, sort of.

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2 hours ago, Collie said:

Do you not use mirrors?

Yes.  Why would you ask that?

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3 hours ago, newjez said:

Of course not. They just want to control their borders, but not to stop immigrants, no, we want heaps of immigrants, we just want to be able to choose them, or rather the government will choose them, and pay very little attention to what the people actually want, but we will have taken back control, sort of.

What I don't  get is the govt announces that they are going to allow 458,000 students to compete for top jobs over the next 3-4 years, no checks, no vetting and not a murmur!.

Ho, I forget they'll all be competing for middle class jobs, as if !

Well lets see what Cameron has to say in his book, whether he takes some responsibility for his f ups and admits Austerity was a major one of those.

 

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Anyone feeling green and angry yet? 😂

Edited by FOL
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Lived in Perth for 18 months. Pingponging back in Juli '15!

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31 minutes ago, FOL said:

Anyone feeling green and angry yet? 😂

It's a sad state of affairs when he believes the electorate are so gullible...and sadly he might yet be proved right.

Quote

 

Argumentum ad passiones.

Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument. Thus, the validity of the premises that establish such an argument does not prove to be verifiable.

Appeals to emotion are intended to draw inward feelings such as fear, pity, and joy from the recipient of the information with the end goal of convincing them that the statements being presented in the fallacious argument are true.

 

 

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On 14/09/2019 at 17:01, BacktoDemocracy said:

I see you got a laughing face.

The German pointed out the democratic deficit in the UK and people still think that's a smart answer to a democratic crisis in the country, everyone outside the country is both bemused and horrified and can see the  trajectory of this sorry mess created by people with only one objective their own advancement.

Everyone outside the country is a big call BTD. I would wager 99% of people in other EU countries couldn't give a stuff about what happens and don't talk or think about it. 

In the UK you poor lot can't think about anything else, it's in your face 24x7.

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2 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Everyone outside the country is a big call BTD. I would wager 99% of people in other EU countries couldn't give a stuff about what happens and don't talk or think about it. 

In the UK you poor lot can't think about anything else, it's in your face 24x7.

While BTD may have exaggerated a tad, when the topic of Brexit comes up, I have yet to meet anybody who thinks it's a good idea.  Most just shake their head in utter bewilderment.  This is across a wide range of nationalities (including many English expats) in both professional and social environments.

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1 minute ago, Collie said:

While BTD may have exaggerated a tad, when the topic of Brexit comes up, I have yet to meet anybody who thinks it's a good idea.  Most just shake their head in utter bewilderment.  This is across a wide range of nationalities (including many English expats) in both professional and social environments.

Yet the vote was for leave so the quicker it gets sorted the quicker people will get used to it.

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6 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Yet the vote was for leave so the quicker it gets sorted the quicker people will get used to it.

Yes but not for economic suicide and not for ripping up the GFA in NI.

Throw the DUP (who represent a minority in NI) under the bus and the deal is done.

I don't know about you but when the facts change, I reserve the right to change my mind.

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Did remainders know that they were voting for this,?

 

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48 minutes ago, Collie said:

Yes but not for economic suicide and not for ripping up the GFA in NI.

Throw the DUP (who represent a minority in NI) under the bus and the deal is done.

I don't know about you but when the facts change, I reserve the right to change my mind.

It's not even about changing your mind.

Brexit as it stands is not achievable. We voted for something they knew we wouldn't be able to implement. 

It's not changing your mind. It's facing up to the reality of the situation. Even now, Boris Johnson has nothing, because there is no solution.

Well, no Tory solution, as they won't throw the dup under the bus. There is labour solution as they don't give a toss about the dup.

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7 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Everyone outside the country is a big call BTD. I would wager 99% of people in other EU countries couldn't give a stuff about what happens and don't talk or think about it. 

In the UK you poor lot can't think about anything else, it's in your face 24x7.

Yu would lose your money.

I have just been in France and French gite and B&B owners asked without promptingwhat was going on and all were highly critical of BJ.

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4 hours ago, Paul1Perth said:

Yet the vote was for leave so the quicker it gets sorted the quicker people will get used to it.

Yes, we'll all get used to it, like when your daughter gets her hair dyed pink, except with this it doesn't just wash out.

The implications of this will be felt for 10 years and may cost lives, so yeah lets get on with throwing ourselves off the cliff.

Every commentator and analyst, including the PM at the time, have clearly said the voters were lied to by the brexit mob, so lets get on with the greatest act of self harm since Germany elected the National Socialists and America elected the Republicans, it'll be fine.  

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4 hours ago, Collie said:

Yes but not for economic suicide and not for ripping up the GFA in NI.

Throw the DUP (who represent a minority in NI) under the bus and the deal is done.

I don't know about you but when the facts change, I reserve the right to change my mind.

It’s been proved it will not mean ripping up the GFA,

you have said there is no reference to uk leaving the eu in it. 

You don’t have the right to vote in uk politics so , you changing your mind has no bearing on this , there are many factors in the uk leaving the eu it’s not just NI. 

 

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4 hours ago, newjez said:

It's not even about changing your mind.

Brexit as it stands is not achievable. We voted for something they knew we wouldn't be able to implement. 

It's not changing your mind. It's facing up to the reality of the situation. Even now, Boris Johnson has nothing, because there is no solution.

Well, no Tory solution, as they won't throw the dup under the bus. There is labour solution as they don't give a toss about the dup.

It's all the EU's fault, " they won't give us what we want" even tho we don't know what it is we want, they won't give it to us.

Here's ' I didn't know so many trucks used Dover" Raab getting his complaint in early, if you wanted to make sure the EU don't agree a deal this is what you would do.

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15 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Yu would lose your money.

I have just been in France and French gite and B&B owners asked without promptingwhat was going on and all were highly critical of BJ.

We were in France, like you in a gite for 9 days. During that time we went out a lot. My BIL is a French teacher so speaks fluent French so we had a fair few conversations with French people. Not one mentioned Brexit and neither did we. That was about 6 weeks ago.

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