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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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On 03/09/2019 at 22:32, Perthbum said:

So boris can call an election even if he does not get a 2/3rds majority

It's even easier that that. The rules of Parliamentary Sovereignty means that if he wins the vote with a majority of just one-vote the election is called because Parliament can not be bound by a previous parliament. If however he makes it a vote of confidence then if he loses (and no one else wins a vote of confidence within 2 weeks) an election is called. My psychic abilities tell there is no way that Corbyn can win a vote of confidence and there's no one who can muster the support of half the house either. If Boris wants an election it's going to happen he doesn't even need any support for calling it. Ignore all the nonsense about a 2/3rd majority being needed.


Chartered Accountant (England & Wales); Registered Tax Agent & Fellow of The Tax Institute (Australia)

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9 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Iam

Thought you were Bernard.

Make up your mind, if you are confused about your name, no wonder you get confused about border issues.

😉🤣🤣🤣

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8 minutes ago, Ken said:

It's even easier that that. The rules of Parliamentary Sovereignty means that if he wins the vote with a majority of just one-vote the election is called because Parliament can not be bound by a previous parliament. If however he makes it a vote of confidence then if he loses (and no one else wins a vote of confidence within 2 weeks) an election is called. My psychic abilities tell there is no way that Corbyn can win a vote of confidence and there's no one who can muster the support of half the house either. If Boris wants an election it's going to happen he doesn't even need any support for calling it. Ignore all the nonsense about a 2/3rd majority being needed.

You may end up in the courts on that one.

You think Boris can get a majority?

We could have a situation where Boris calls a no confidence on himself and Corbyn votes against it.

I have to say, this is comic genius. I knew Boris was a bit of a laugh, but he has outdone himself.

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49 minutes ago, bunbury61 said:

Who in heavens name told you there is a majority for remain ?

Call the election then !

Bring it on 

Shame on the 21 Tory MPs who were elected on a manifesto to take us out of the e.u , and then reneged 

A disgrace 

Who in heavens name told you there isn't a majority for remain? 

https://britainelects.com/polling/europe/

The above collates polling data from a number of sources including Survation, Panelbase etc. It has the benefit of being more objective than asking all your mates what they think and declaring "everyone" across the UK therefore thinks the same as they do.

I appreciate your support but sadly you overestimate my influence at Westminster and they won't allow me to call an election.

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:evilface_frowning_s

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54 minutes ago, Collie said:

Thought you were Bernard.

Make up your mind, if you are confused about your name, no wonder you get confused about border issues.

😉🤣🤣🤣

Oh how we laughed 😂😂

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BUT I DONT FEEL AFRAID

AS LONG AS I GAZE AT

WATERLOO SUNSET

IAM IN PARADISE

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Watching a bit of Sky news live in Parliment.

Maybe there is some hope for the UK, Hilary Benn, Philip Hammond & Kerr Starmer all very articulate and sensible.

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13 hours ago, simmo said:

An "anti no deal" bill !

I have never seen/heard anything so fkn ridiculous, treacherous and contemptuous in my life.  We had the ex PM cosied up to Hammond, Clarke and the other remainer chums.  Hammond even got his brief direct from the EU!

It's the people v parliament and it could turn ugly.

This seems to be be something that is a preoccupation, violence, is that because you feel that will get rid of all that you disapprove of, the leftists, the liberals and the deviants.

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Whatever happens next, it is sad to watch.  The UK has become more divided than the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.  Brexit is splitting the nation for years if not decades to come. 😞

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Irishwoman in London: My daughter (7) asks why Brexit people want us to leave?

‘As a mixed-race Irishwoman growing up in Dublin in the 1980s I frequently heard ‘go back to where you came from’’

Siobhán McKenna has lived in London for 20 years. Siobhán McKenna has lived in London for 20 years.
Siobhán McKenna
Updated: about 14 hours ago
7
    

My husband and I are Irish. We have lived in London for 15 and 20 years respectively. My husband was on the Tube the Sunday morning after the 2016 Brexit referendum in north London when he was told to “F**k off home Paddy, we’ve taken our country back”, when he interjected to stop a bunch of men harassing some ethnic minority women in the same vein. That’s pretty shocking, especially for London.

I moved here 20 years ago for the diversity, tolerance and opportunity this amazing city offered - those three things have been evaporating steadily since June 23rd, 2016. As a mixed-race Irish woman, growing up in Dublin in the 1980s, I frequently heard “go back to where you came from”, so its cruel intentions were not new to me. What was new was the hate directed at my (white) husband’s Irishness and his EU identity.

I’ve been constantly amazed and often enraged by the lack of knowledge your average English person has about Ireland, its politics, history and people. But over the years the ignorance and potato jokes were as frequent as the oh-my-granny-is-Irish chats, so I assumed that explicit prejudice towards Irish people was a thing of the past.

But this country has form. When my dad and his friends, all newly qualified dentists, arrived here in the 1950s to work for the NHS they struggled to find a landlord who’d rent to them. He well remembers the “No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs” signs. My older brothers came here in the 1980s during their summer holidays to work the building sites of Canary Wharf. “No brickies” was the sign they were confronted with in cafes and bars in the east end of London - code for no Irish.

So, I really shouldn’t have been surprised that the day after the 2017 general election when several colleagues asked me who exactly the DUP were. Or that within four months, the then British prime minister Theresa May was calling us “citizens of nowhere”, or that the then home secretary was declaring that employers would have to hand over lists of EU employees, or that we got a letter home from our daughter’s primary school asking for her nationality. We have since had Tory grandees past and present tell the Irish to know their place or else, according to the current home secretary, we could be starved into submission. It has been stomach-turning to witness the contempt shown for peace in Northern Ireland.

 

I have worked in social policy for the last decade in London, and during that time, successive Tory governments have inflicted ideologically-driven austerity on the Brits who can least afford it - the elderly, the young adults, the disabled, the single parents, the working mothers, the low paid and the low skilled, the black or Asian Brits, and of course immigrants.

Structural inequality, discrimination at every life stage if you are black or brown, and chronic, life-limiting poverty for large swathes of the population are all enabled by a deeply ingrained and internalised class system. Brexit is a symptom of the profound dysfunction of UK, and it is pulling hard at the already-fraying social fabric of this country . And it will get worse.

I spent seven years working in City Hall while Boris Johnson was mayor of London. He was not a terrible mayor, but he is a truly dreadful prime minister. His elevation along with his inner circle (many of whom were in City Hall including his chief of staff, director of policy and minister for crime and policing) has filled me with a despair so profound it’s almost indescribable. Whatever the problems this country has, Johnson is unequivocally not the solution to them.

I have been through various stages of grief over the last three years for this city, and its people who have been so good to me and my family: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. To be constantly bombarded with hostile messages about how people like me are not welcome and are a problem to be dealt with (while we staff their NHS, build their homes or teach their kids) is mentally exhausting.

It took a while, but I am no longer emotionally invested in this country - it is a purely transactional relationship now; how could it be anything else? We have watched our rights and our lives be used as political chips to be bargained with by the self-serving people that pass for the political class in this country.

We have three kids who have only known London as their home. Overnight, we all became second class citizens. My seven-year-old daughter asked me recently why the Brexit people don’t like us and want us to leave. How do I answer that? We can’t and won’t stay where we are not considered equal or valued for our net contribution to British social and economic life; certainly not when we have a choice.

So, for now we have front row seats to what is surely the greatest act of national self harm that a functioning, stable democracy has ever inflicted upon itself. The impact on Ireland and relations between the two countries and their people remains to be seen, but I am not overly hopeful.

It is the end of a once mighty empire, and it is brutal to watch.

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Seems a bit of a fuss to call an election.

In Australia the PM can visit the Governor General whenever he likes and dissolve parliament and call an election.

It is purely up to the PM.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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8 minutes ago, Parley said:

Seems a bit of a fuss to call an election.

In Australia the PM can visit the Governor General whenever he likes and dissolve parliament and call an election.

It is purely up to the PM.

It used to be that way in the UK.  I think it was the first Blair Government (stand to be corrected on this) that brought about the change to fixed-term Parliaments so that it prevented PMs from manipulating election timings to their advantage and limited the endless speculation in the media and elsewhere about when the next election would be called.

It was a good change which has accidentally scuppered Johnson here as this type of scenario was surely not envisaged.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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18 hours ago, simmo said:

An "anti no deal" bill !

I have never seen/heard anything so fkn ridiculous, treacherous and contemptuous in my life.  We had the ex PM cosied up to Hammond, Clarke and the other remainer chums.  Hammond even got his brief direct from the EU!

It's the people v parliament and it could turn ugly.

Brexit is just the start.

Who needs Parliament’s unrepresentative bureaucrats?

President Farage anyone?  

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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14 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

And the other millions will not let personally ambitious nationalists lie there way to absolute power nor see unelected psychopaths and fascists take over our country for their own gain and warped ambitions.

If you cannot see that or realise that your basest instincts are being manipulated then you fail to understand patriotism.

The anti-fascists vote will be terribly split though.  That is what Johnson is relying on.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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12 hours ago, starlight7 said:

Perhaps with the withdrawal of UK the EU will actually become stronger . More unity, less whinging and better that everyone lives on the mainland except Ireland .

I see that as more likely.  Post-Brexit there will be a lot of issues to overcome and negotiations will intensify on future arrangements between the UK and the EU.

The lack of any transitional arrangements will mean negotiations will need to be undertaken with considerable urgency.  The impacts of no-deal on both sides will not then be theoretical but playing out in real time and it will be interesting to see who is under the most pressure. 

Given what has gone before perhaps we will see a continuation of the self-harm tactics, a kind of mutual self-destruction.  Though that would imply that the harm is being felt relatively equally and I doubt that will be the case.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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On 03/09/2019 at 00:54, Perthbum said:

Garbage, individual countries have their own flags that they have always flown, who would fly an EU flag at a sporting event against other nations 😂

Have you never heard of the Ryder Cup?  😏

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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9 hours ago, Ken said:

It's even easier that that. The rules of Parliamentary Sovereignty means that if he wins the vote with a majority of just one-vote the election is called because Parliament can not be bound by a previous parliament. If however he makes it a vote of confidence then if he loses (and no one else wins a vote of confidence within 2 weeks) an election is called. My psychic abilities tell there is no way that Corbyn can win a vote of confidence and there's no one who can muster the support of half the house either. If Boris wants an election it's going to happen he doesn't even need any support for calling it. Ignore all the nonsense about a 2/3rd majority being needed.

What about a caretaker prime minister trusted by the majority of anti-no-deal MPs to ensure that the no-deal law is passed, the extension is secured and the general election called?   Ken Clarke I suggest.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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4 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

This seems to be be something that is a preoccupation, violence, is that because you feel that will get rid of all that you disapprove of, the leftists, the liberals and the deviants.

It is though a genuine threat.  Brexiteers have already demonstrated that they are willing to murder MPs who oppose them.  If Brexit actually didn’t happen I am sure there would be a violent uprising from many of these people.  Some of the posters on here imply this but there are many actually ready and willing.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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3 hours ago, Peach said:

Whatever happens next, it is sad to watch.  The UK has become more divided than the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.  Brexit is splitting the nation for years if not decades to come. 😞

Maybe there will need to be a partition of the UK?

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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1 hour ago, Parley said:

Seems a bit of a fuss to call an election.

In Australia the PM can visit the Governor General whenever he likes and dissolve parliament and call an election.

It is purely up to the PM.

The Australian PM may visit the GG ( which is only a formality) to dissolve parliament for one reason only, and that is to seek the will of the people. Ultimately the will of the people prevails over the will of their elected representatives. This is a good system as we get the opportunity to chuck them out. Referendums are an indicator of the will of the people, as are elections but not necessarily reflective of the will of elected representatives. 

I love the phrase "The electorate has spoken."

Things must be different in the UK

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32 minutes ago, Dusty Plains said:

Things must be different in the UK

It really is pathetic over here. They had the gall to call the EU undemocratic.

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9 hours ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

This seems to be be something that is a preoccupation, violence, is that because you feel that will get rid of all that you disapprove of, the leftists, the liberals and the deviants.

what?

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6 hours ago, Parley said:

Seems a bit of a fuss to call an election.

In Australia the PM can visit the Governor General whenever he likes and dissolve parliament and call an election.

It is purely up to the PM.

That’s why the quality of politics is so dire, make a mess of things and then run off.

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5 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

It is though a genuine threat.  Brexiteers have already demonstrated that they are willing to murder MPs who oppose them.  If Brexit actually didn’t happen I am sure there would be a violent uprising from many of these people.  Some of the posters on here imply this but there are many actually ready and willing.

I know, frightening.

 Once this kind of nationalist populism is indulged in then this has always been on the cards.

 I can scarcely believe that it has got here to this point in literally a few days

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It's going to be an ugly election.

Hopefully the good people of the UK will take their countries back from the fascists.

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