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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, simmo said:

 

 

And who do you think will be bending over?

Absolutely, the potential IS unlimited!

Edited by BacktoDemocracy
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2 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Are you implying that people might know a bit more about the implications of leaving and remaining than they did 3 years ago?

If so, it is no wonder some want to prevent them from having a view on Brexit.

Hmmmmmmmm, very perspicacious.!! 

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As is the potential for fake news and hot air (from Triggerfinger Trump)

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4 hours ago, simmo said:

 

 

Yep, huge potential for Trump to bend the UK over and line his pockets.

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3 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Are you implying that people might know a bit more about the implications of leaving and remaining than they did 3 years ago?

If so, it is no wonder some want to prevent them from having a view on Brexit.

I also think people have a much better understanding of how the EU works. It really was pathetic how little education on the structure of the EU we have had.

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4 hours ago, newjez said:

Why does this statement make you feel better Simmo? Just scares the hell out of me.

Double plus good.

What scares you hun?

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I imagine the always previously regarded stolid and much admired British government has now become a laughing stock worldwide.

I must admit when I lived in Aus for a short time I always thought the Australian government were so lightweight and unprofessional I was suddenly proud to be British - has anyone read Nick Bryant's 'The Rise and Fall of Australia'? or even Donald Horne's 'Lucky Country'? I'm afraid despite all the pomp and circumstance of British Parliamentary tradition the same self serving career rather conviction politicians are ruling the roost. When asked 'why do you think you would make a good prime minister?' David Cameron answered 'because I think I would be rather good at it' !!! What a legacy he has left!

  

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8 minutes ago, Reasearcher said:

I imagine the always previously regarded stolid and much admired British government has now become a laughing stock worldwide.

I must admit when I lived in Aus for a short time I always thought the Australian government were so lightweight and unprofessional I was suddenly proud to be British,

  

Yes to laughing stock. Absolutely.

The 2nd bit resonates. When they were going through a Prime Minister a week over here, I held up the UK Government as a bastion of good Parliament. That's dead now.

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4 hours ago, simmo said:

What scares you hun?

Hormone laced beef, why do you think Americans are so bloated.

Agricultural products produced in an almost regulation free environment.

Animals which are intensively reared in sheds without ever seeing grass including cattle

Requirements that NHS contracts have to be put out to be tendered and under US law for arbitration

Our regulations become the same as the USA's so that can export direct to us

There cheese which is basically solidified dairy fat wiping out our cheese producers

 

Anything there that scares you luv' 

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39 minutes ago, Reasearcher said:

I imagine the always previously regarded stolid and much admired British government has now become a laughing stock worldwide.

I must admit when I lived in Aus for a short time I always thought the Australian government were so lightweight and unprofessional I was suddenly proud to be British - has anyone read Nick Bryant's 'The Rise and Fall of Australia'? or even Donald Horne's 'Lucky Country'? I'm afraid despite all the pomp and circumstance of British Parliamentary tradition the same self serving career rather conviction politicians are ruling the roost. When asked 'why do you think you would make a good prime minister?' David Cameron answered 'because I think I would be rather good at it' !!! What a legacy he has left!

  

Yes, well the exposure all of these numpties have had over the last 2.5 years has achieved one thing, it has just exposed how lacking in intelligence they are and how uninformed and doctrinaire their view of the world is, bigotry dressed up as something desirable.

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Nice to see that the democratic constraints that apply to normal people don't apply to Mrs May.

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29 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

 

Nah, never. This lot had the wit to get their make up right, they know they'er clowns.

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37 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

 

It is not the UK government to blame. It is the UK Parliament.


I want it all, and I want it now.

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16 minutes ago, Parley said:

It is not the UK government to blame. It is the UK Parliament.

Actually it is the fault of Brexit proponents for never providing a coherent policy to rally behind.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Actually it is the fault of Brexit proponents for never providing a coherent policy to rally behind.

Go back to David Cameron doing anything for self interest to try and stay in power 

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On 14/03/2019 at 19:41, Gbye grey sky said:

I have made my position on referendums clear.  I do not consider that they have a place when it comes to complex issues of policy.  The vast majority of people simply cannot devote the time necessary to form a reasoned view.

 

This is an interesting point I haven't considered before. By extension do you feel that Scottish independence shouldn't have been decided by a referendum and a majority for the SNP in the Scottish Parliament and 56 SNP MPs out of 59 Scottish MPs in Westminster should have been the deciding factor for independence?

It was Maggie Thatcher's measure for the issue but I've always personally felt a referendum was the appropriate way to measure it. 

Interesting either way

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:evilface_frowning_s

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On 15/03/2019 at 06:41, Gbye grey sky said:

I have made my position on referendums clear.  I do not consider that they have a place when it comes to complex issues of policy.  The vast majority of people simply cannot devote the time necessary to form a reasoned view.

 

True most of us have jobs. We should just leave the decision making to you in future, as you have so much free time to sort it all out.

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I want it all, and I want it now.

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1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

This is an interesting point I haven't considered before. By extension do you feel that Scottish independence shouldn't have been decided by a referendum and a majority for the SNP in the Scottish Parliament and 56 SNP MPs out of 59 Scottish MPs in Westminster should have been the deciding factor for independence?

It was Maggie Thatcher's measure for the issue but I've always personally felt a referendum was the appropriate way to measure it. 

Interesting either way

It is less of a problem if the referendum is to serve to inform governments rather than direct them.

But my issue with your thought is two-fold.

Firstly politicians are rarely elected on a proportional basis so few individual representatives are put there by a majority of their own constituents.

Secondly, politicians and indeed manifestos, cover a broad range of issues.  UKIP were perhaps the closest example of a single issue party and they failed to gain a majority vote anywhere.  No SMP member stood solely on the platform of independence from England and so it would need a series of assumptions to suggest that their election was a mandate for any single policy.  You could certainly be against independence for Scotland yet vote SNP without holding a contradictory position.

Referendums may have some use in informing politicians but, in the absence of an overwhelming outcome they should not direct policy.  And, most importantly, if you have just two options on the ballot paper, it must be a clear binary choice.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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56 minutes ago, Parley said:

True most of us have jobs. We should just leave the decision making to you in future, as you have so much free time to sort it all out.

It is good that you have come around to the conclusion that referendums on complex policy have no place.

And that you consider that some have more of a grasp on the issues than others like yourself.

Progress.

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Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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1 hour ago, Gbye grey sky said:

It is less of a problem if the referendum is to serve to inform governments rather than direct them.

But my issue with your thought is two-fold.

Firstly politicians are rarely elected on a proportional basis so few individual representatives are put there by a majority of their own constituents.

Secondly, politicians and indeed manifestos, cover a broad range of issues.  UKIP were perhaps the closest example of a single issue party and they failed to gain a majority vote anywhere.  No SMP member stood solely on the platform of independence from England and so it would need a series of assumptions to suggest that their election was a mandate for any single policy.  You could certainly be against independence for Scotland yet vote SNP without holding a contradictory position.

Referendums may have some use in informing politicians but, in the absence of an overwhelming outcome they should not direct policy.  And, most importantly, if you have just two options on the ballot paper, it must be a clear binary choice.

Thanks for replying. Some very good points and I agree regarding the range of issues covered in a manifesto - many people I know vote SNP but are on the fence regarding independence. Their electoral success has largely been based on moving further left than labour in Scotland. 

I would only add that Scotland wasn't seeking independence from England, the debate was around leaving the United Kingdom which also incorporates Wales and Northern Ireland. Semantics I know but I do think it's an important distinction to make.

Regarding the proportional representation, the Scottish Parliament operates on a very imperfect form of proportional representation. Do you think Westminster would be better served adopting a similar system? From a Scottish perspective it would lead to much debate as it would strip the SNP of third-party status, but from a UK wide perspective it might better represent the percentage of population voting for each party.

History books will no doubt find this period in UK politics very interesting!

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