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simmo

The (all new) Brexit Thread

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11 minutes ago, Collie said:

Sorry, that statement makes no sense from a grammatical perspective.

Maybe, you need to put some of the 350M per week into an education programme for some Leave voters.

Start with basic (E)english, things like knowing the difference between except & accept, your & you're, were, where & we're.  (Do)You get the picture (?) (or maybe you don't).

 

Thanks for correcting my grammar. Do you have any opinions on the topic? Maybe some more cut and paste jobs?

 

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2 minutes ago, newjez said:

Greece did have a referendum and did effectively vote for grexit. But when the government realised what that meant they turned away from it.

People critise the EU for acting in it's own interests in relation to Greece. I really don't understand what else people expect them to do. It's quite baffling.

Equally when dealing with brexit. The EU acts in it's own self interest. Then leavers look really surprised. I just don't get it. W e.    A r e.   L e a v I n g.  

When do you think the penny will drop?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Collie said:

Sorry, that statement makes no sense from a grammatical perspective.

Maybe, you need to put some of the 350M per week into an education programme for some Leave voters.

Start with basic english, things like knowing the difference between except & accept, your & you're, were, where & we're.  You get the picture (or maybe you don't).

 

You could read it as a double negative where simmo has had a complete turn around and he is suggesting we accept May's deal with no exceptions. But you are probably stretching grammar to use except as a verb. I think it should be used as a preposition.

Edited by newjez
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The truth is that most prominent  EU countries would vote out if a choice was given to the people, the small countries who get more than they put in would obviously vote to stay but the bigger players would be out if it was up to the people.

Prominent Polish politician Radoslaw Sikorski said the results of the Italian and German elections prove there is a huge anti-EU movement and the success of Brexit could lead to more countries voting to leave the EU.

Mr Sikorski, the former minister of national defence in Poland, was asked whether other EU countries will follow the same path as Britain if Brexit is a success.

He told students at the University of Greenwich: “Sure. I mean, we’ve just got a result in Italy where right-wing anti-EU parties have the majority of the vote.

 

“In Germany, an anti-EU party is gaining ground. You know, we assume that the centre will hold in Germany.”

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7 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

The truth is that most prominent  EU countries would vote out if a choice was given to the people, the small countries who get more than they put in would obviously vote to stay but the bigger players would be out if it was up to the people.

Prominent Polish politician Radoslaw Sikorski said the results of the Italian and German elections prove there is a huge anti-EU movement and the success of Brexit could lead to more countries voting to leave the EU.

Mr Sikorski, the former minister of national defence in Poland, was asked whether other EU countries will follow the same path as Britain if Brexit is a success.

He told students at the University of Greenwich: “Sure. I mean, we’ve just got a result in Italy where right-wing anti-EU parties have the majority of the vote.

 

“In Germany, an anti-EU party is gaining ground. You know, we assume that the centre will hold in Germany.”

Complete tosh.

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Just now, newjez said:

Complete tosh.

How is it, the Greeks when questionnaires are done would leave, the Italians in a poll done recently said they would vote out by 60%,the french would vote out, the Germans are very unhappy and want their "mark" back. I am afraid the EU is a sinking ship. 

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1 hour ago, simmo said:

What you mean to say is should we pay the mega banks back what they lost by thinking throwing cash at corrupt institutions.  The answer is no.

I tend to agree, but there is a hell of a price to pay for that stance. In Greece's case, it could have ended the EU. So the EU acted in it's own self interest. You really do need to think about that statement. Why wouldn't the EU act in it's own self interest? Why would they destroy themselves? Why simmo? Seriously, why can you not get over the fact that the EU will always look after the EU first? They aren't santa claws. They never were, they never will be. Maybe this is why everything has gone so badly for the leavers? Did they really think the EU was going to act in the UK interests to the detriment of the EU? Really?

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21 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

How is it, the Greeks when questionnaires are done would leave, the Italians in a poll done recently said they would vote out by 60%,the french would vote out, the Germans are very unhappy and want their "mark" back. I am afraid the EU is a sinking ship. 

I do love it. These polls are ok, but the other polls aren't.

Try watching the yes minister episode on polling.

You really don't seem to understand how the Europeans like their EU. Yes, they have different visions of where they want it to go. But I really can't see anyone else leaving after the example we have given them. We are one of the most powerful members. If they do that to us, what would they do to them?

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38 minutes ago, simmo said:

Grexit??  go back to june 2015 apparently referendums don't count if you are a poor country. The EU knows best.

That was patently not a Grexit referendum.  It was pure window-dressing.  A vote in favour or against the bail out championed by the incoming PM who expressly said he was not in favour of leaving either the EU or the Euro.

Try again.

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17 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

How is it, the Greeks when questionnaires are done would leave, the Italians in a poll done recently said they would vote out by 60%,the french would vote out, the Germans are very unhappy and want their "mark" back. I am afraid the EU is a sinking ship. 

Any actual facts to back this up or is it just propaganda from the far right echo chambers you hang out in?

Seems to be far from accurate from everything I hear, particulatly France, Germany & Spain.

Most fellow europeans I know do not believe in economic suicide and see the EU generally in positive terms albeit not perfect (what is?)

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18 minutes ago, newjez said:

I tend to agree, but there is a hell of a price to pay for that stance. In Greece's case, it could have ended the EU. So the EU acted in it's own self interest. You really do need to think about that statement. Why wouldn't the EU act in it's own self interest? Why would they destroy themselves? Why simmo? Seriously, why can you not get over the fact that the EU will always look after the EU first? They aren't santa claws. They never were, they never will be. Maybe this is why everything has gone so badly for the leavers? Did they really think the EU was going to act in the UK interests to the detriment of the EU? Really?

They convinced themselves that they need us more than we need them.  Dangerous when you believe your own propaganda.

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16 minutes ago, newjez said:

I tend to agree, but there is a hell of a price to pay for that stance. In Greece's case, it could have ended the EU. So the EU acted in it's own self interest. You really do need to think about that statement. Why wouldn't the EU act in it's own self interest? Why would they destroy themselves? Why simmo? Seriously, why can you not get over the fact that the EU will always look after the EU first? They aren't santa claws. They never were, they never will be. Maybe this is why everything has gone so badly for the leavers? Did they really think the EU was going to act in the UK interests to the detriment of the EU? Really?

No one expects the EU to give the UK anything that is not rightfully ours.  For example, the massive investments the UK has made to the Sat Nav systems, defence, medicine, interpol etc... We are not suggesting we cash out - just that we invest closer to home in the future.  

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6 hours ago, newjez said:

So, we are paying ten billion a year to stop free movement and not have any say in how we are governed?

I don't think Theresa has quite got the immigration sovereignty balance right. But maybe she has?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/17/smooth-brexit-could-cost-10bn-extra

But the good news is she was right. No deal is better than a bad deal. And this is a bad deal.

So sad.

Just a meaningless slogan though.  No deal is a very bad deal.

But saying ‘a very bad deal is better than a bad deal’ is not only nonsense but wouldn’t resonate with anyone.

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9 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

That was patently not a Grexit referendum.  It was pure window-dressing.  A vote in favour or against the bail out championed by the incoming PM who expressly said he was not in favour of leaving either the EU or the Euro.

Try again.

.who resigned 

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46 minutes ago, newjez said:

Greece did have a referendum and did effectively vote for grexit. But when the government realised what that meant they turned away from it.

People critise the EU for acting in it's own interests in relation to Greece. I really don't understand what else people expect them to do. It's quite baffling. They bailed out the banks! Well having just had one GFC, and seen the effect of that on the Euro, I imagine they weren't keen to have another one. It could have destroyed the EU. They acted to avoid that. Why do people have a problem with that?

Equally when dealing with brexit. The EU acts in it's own self interest. Then leavers look really surprised. I just don't get it. W e.    A r e.   L e a v I n g.  

When do you think the penny will drop?

No, it didn’t.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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5 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

No, it didn’t.

I assume you meant to quote me...

Quote

As a result of the referendum, the bailout conditions were rejected by a majority of over 61% to 39% approving, with the "No" vote winning in all of Greece's regions. The referendum results also forced the immediate resignation of New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras as party president because of the perceived negative result of the "Yes" choice, to which the conservative party and Samaras had committed themselves.[2] Although winning the referendum, Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis also resigned and was replaced on 6 July by Euclid Tsakalotos.

Despite the result of the referendum, on 13 July 2015 the government of Tsipras reached an agreement with the European authorities for a 3-year-bailout with even harsher austerity conditions as the ones rejected by the voters. This represented a "drastic turnaround" for Prime Minister Tsipras position,[3] as he had been elected in an anti-austerity platform. Former Finance Minister Varoufakis characterised the harshness of the deal as a new Treaty of Versailles and "Greece’s Terms of Surrender".[4] In July and August, Tsipras was able to get the new austerity packages and the entire bailout agreement approved by the Parliament, but had to relly in the pro-European Union opposition parties as around 40 MPs of the major ruling party abstained or voted against the measures.[5][6] This triggered the September 2015 snap election, where Tsipras was re-elected albeit with an historical low turnout. The second Tsipras government was thus marked by an intense austerity policy in the context of the third bailout to Greece. The country left bailout in August 2018, though austerity continued after that.

 

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54 minutes ago, simmo said:

Thanks for correcting my grammar. Do you have any opinions on the topic? Maybe some more cut and paste jobs?

 

You're welcome.

I wrote what I meant so the red additions were not required.

All the opinions and debate I posted 12-18 months ago are still relevant (and have been by and large accurate).

I gave up dealing with 19th century fantasists and trolls back then.  Now I am content with dipping in and out every now and then.  Also, adding some considered analysis from articulate journalists and opinion writers from outside the UK to add perspective.  As an emigrant (& immigrant), I have yet to meet anybody who thinks Brexit is a good idea for the UK from any nation.  People I have have discussions with include Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africians, English, Welsh and Scots.

The topic is interesting (fasinating even).

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19 minutes ago, simmo said:

I assume you meant to quote me...

 

So you now know it was not a Greek Grexit referendum.


Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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1 hour ago, newjez said:

I do love it. These polls are ok, but the other polls aren't.

Try watching the yes minister episode on polling.

You really don't seem to understand how the Europeans like their EU. Yes, they have different visions of where they want it to go. But I really can't see anyone else leaving after the example we have given them. We are one of the most powerful members. If they do that to us, what would they do to them?

😂 you are the first to put up polls results when the chance is there.

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58 minutes ago, Collie said:

You're welcome.

I wrote what I meant so the red additions were not required.

All the opinions and debate I posted 12-18 months ago are still relevant (and have been by and large accurate).

I gave up dealing with 19th century fantasists and trolls back then.  Now I am content with dipping in and out every now and then.  Also, adding some considered analysis from articulate journalists and opinion writers from outside the UK to add perspective.  As an emigrant (& immigrant), I have yet to meet anybody who thinks Brexit is a good idea for the UK from any nation.  People I have have discussions with include Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africians, English, Welsh and Scots.

The topic is interesting (fasinating even).

You have never met a brexiteer? 

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52 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

So you now know it was not a Greek Grexit referendum.

That wasn't on the ballot?

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Brexit will RUIN Germany as UK taxpayers stop funding EU coffers - say Germans

BREXIT is threatening EU funded projects in Germany as budgets could shrink after the UK stops budget contributions when it leaves the bloc in March 2019, it has been revealed.

EU projects in Northern Hesse are going to see a huge reduction of EU funds and the German Association of Cities, the German County Association and the German Association of Towns and Municipalities are calling for the funding period to be maintained even after 2020.

They argue: "Because of the exit of the United Kingdom from the European Union, future budget cuts in the EU must be expected, which could mean that the available funds are significantly reduced, especially in economically more developed Member States.”

They signed a policy statement on cohesion policy which supports hundreds of thousands of projects in Europe to receive funding from the European Regional Development Fund and the Cohesion Fund.

 

Although it is rarely discussed in Brussels or Berlin, Germany is becoming increasingly concerned about losing UK funding and trade.


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France would have voted to leave EU too if in UK's situation, French leader Macron says

  • When asked if France could take the same decision as the British people, Macron said: "Yeah, probably. Probably in a similar context, but our context was very different"
     
  • The French leader said that he hopes the ongoing Brexit negotiations will deliver a deep and special relationship with the U.K., but that any deal with the EU "will be by definition less deep than today"
Published 6:58 AM ET Mon, 22 Jan 2018  Updated 9:39 AM ET Mon, 22 Jan 2018CNBC.com
     
     
     
     
     
French President Emmanuel Macron on January 16, 2018 in Calais, France.
Sylvain Lefevre | Getty Images
French President Emmanuel Macron on January 16, 2018 in Calais, France.

France would likely have followed the U.K. and also voted to leave the European Union if the opportunity had presented itself, French President Emmanuel Macron said in an interview Sunday.

Macron said that, if the French people had been put in a similar situation and were asked to vote "yes or no" on EU membership, then they would probably have chosen to leave the bloc.

"Middle classes and working classes and especially the oldest in your country decided that the recent decades were not in their favor and that the adjustments made by both the EU and globalization… wasn't in their favor," Macron told the BBC about the Brexit vote.

 

When asked if France could take the same decision as the British people, Macron said: "Yeah, probably. Probably in a similar context, but our context was very different."

He said that the U.K. government had made a mistake in asking the British electorate "yes or no on a very complicated subject."


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4 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

When asked if France could take the same decision as the British people, Macron said: "Yeah, probably. Probably in a similar context, but our context was very different."

He said that the U.K. government had made a mistake in asking the British electorate "yes or no on a very complicated subject."

 

Is that supposed to be an anti-EU thing?  The different context is that the French hadn't fecked their own country up to the extent that the UK had, then given it's people a chance to roll up all their complaints into a single answer.  This is exactly the reason we're stuck now.    Some will get what they want, mainly the people who are going to negotiate the terms for the benefit of the whole.  The rest won't get what they expected, if Brexit happens, because it was never defined into exactly what it meant.

 

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5 minutes ago, Slean Wolfhead said:

 

Is that supposed to be an anti-EU thing?  The different context is that the French hadn't fecked their own country up to the extent that the UK had, then given it's people a chance to roll up all their complaints into a single answer.  This is exactly the reason we're stuck now.    Some will get what they want, mainly the people who are going to negotiate the terms for the benefit of the whole.  The rest won't get what they expected, if Brexit happens, because it was never defined into exactly what it meant.

 

France has a far slower economy and far higher unemployment rate than the UK plus they have far bigger problems with immigrants, no wonder the French people would vote out.

Edited by Perthbum

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