State of the NHS

[Sandgroper]

15 hours ago, snifter said:

Its interesting as I read the link earlier in the thread in which it said about the NHS being ranked 1st overall. Yet in outcomes it ranks in 10th  

I went and did some more reading up on it. Found this one https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/14/nhs-holds-on-to-top-spot-in-healthcare-survey

'But the NHS came 10th on healthcare outcomes, a category that measures how successful treatment has been – a significant weakness that was also identified in 2014. The experts concluded that the UK does very poorly in relative terms on five-year survival rates for breast and bowel cancer, and deaths among people admitted to hospital after a stroke, for example.

An NHS England spokesperson said: “This international research is a welcome reminder of the fundamental strengths of the NHS, and a call to arms in support of the NHS Forward View practical plan to improve cancer, mental health and other outcomes of care.”'

I did note that when I read it and surely its the outcomes that matter most.

[Sandgroper]

From todays papers http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/virgin-children-health-service-contract-nhs-privatisation-mps-warn-drugs-healthcare-lancashire-a8105606.html 

[Sandgroper]

The NHS can't stop making the papers http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-jobs-posts-labour-warning-empty-winter-jonathan-ash-worth-a8116771.html

You can understand why nurses move half way around the world to work in better conditions.

[bristolman]

I can't for the life of me understand why so many Aussie nurses choose to come and work in our 3rd world system ?

[bristolman]

7 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

You can understand why nurses move half way around the world to work in better conditions.

Yes, OK.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/a-third-of-australias-nurses-are-thinking-of-leaving-the-profession-20160928-grq75z.html

[caramac]

9 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

The NHS can't stop making the papers http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nhs-jobs-posts-labour-warning-empty-winter-jonathan-ash-worth-a8116771.html

You can understand why nurses move half way around the world to work in better conditions.

And doctors, social workers, psychologists, pharmacists and other ancillary staff.... 

We’ve just returned to Australia for my husband to start two new jobs in Victoria. He’s currently covering as a locum in Tasmania where he’s met up with two old colleagues from the UK (both drs too). He has several members from his team in the UK waiting for their paperwork to be completed before they come over too. There were seven consultant vacancies (and numerous nursing ones) in the region before he left and no one wants to fill them. People are leaving to work in shops, emigrate, or taking early retirement. As of today, for the first time there are 100,000 vacancies in the NHS, including 10,000 drs and 40,000 nurses.

The pay and conditions here are way better than they are currently in the UK - my husband has an office and everything! (In the UK, for the past six years, as head of service, his office was his car and his admin support was his BlackBerry. It was utterly ridiculous.

Of course there are issues here too, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise, but very sadly, the NHS is not a good place to work at the moment, and it’s a very deliberate ploy by Hunt to drive it into the ground - he’s doing his master’s bidding very effectively.

Anyone who thinks the NHS isn’t being set up for privatisation needs to give their head a wobble. It’s already happening - http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/private-companies-involvement-in-the-nhs/.  Richard Branson just sued the NHS for £2m because Virgin lost a contract, but they’ve been awarded a £104m contract to run children’s services in Lancashire. Given how well ( ) privatisation of social care, housing, schools (academies) is working, it’s sure to be rip roaring success and save the taxpayer millions..... or not.....

 

[Sandgroper]

42 minutes ago, caramac said:

And doctors, social workers, psychologists, pharmacists and other ancillary staff.... 

We’ve just returned to Australia for my husband to start two new jobs in Victoria. He’s currently covering as a locum in Tasmania where he’s met up with two old colleagues from the UK (both drs too). He has several members from his team in the UK waiting for their paperwork to be completed before they come over too. There were seven consultant vacancies (and numerous nursing ones) in the region before he left and no one wants to fill them. People are leaving to work in shops, emigrate, or taking early retirement. As of today, for the first time there are 100,000 vacancies in the NHS, including 10,000 drs and 40,000 nurses.

The pay and conditions here are way better than they are currently in the UK - my husband has an office and everything! (In the UK, for the past six years, as head of service, his office was his car and his admin support was his BlackBerry. It was utterly ridiculous.

Of course there are issues here too, it would be ridiculous to think otherwise, but very sadly, the NHS is not a good place to work at the moment, and it’s a very deliberate ploy by Hunt to drive it into the ground - he’s doing his master’s bidding very effectively.

Anyone who thinks the NHS isn’t being set up for privatisation needs to give their head a wobble. It’s already happening - http://www.patients4nhs.org.uk/private-companies-involvement-in-the-nhs/.  Richard Branson just sued the NHS for £2m because Virgin lost a contract, but they’ve been awarded a £104m contract to run children’s services in Lancashire. Given how well ( ) privatisation of social care, housing, schools (academies) is working, it’s sure to be rip roaring success and save the taxpayer millions..... or not.....

 

My Doctor here is from England, of Indian descent but born and raised In England. He loves GP work but said what was expected of him in the UK was ridiculous 60-70 hr weeks with the prospect of every other weekend as the practice he worked at was being forced to open at weekends. 

He's loving it in Australia he can work set hours at a busy practice which he enjoys and acknowledges the better lifestyle available is beneficial for him and his young family.

It's sad that professionals that are passionate about there work are having that passion stifled by ridiculous working conditions and cuts to budgets, the NHS will end up staffed by migrants (not knocking them) and all privatization will achieve is a lowering of standards. We have two family members who work in aged care (NHS) one has over 30 years service, in the last couple of years all the NHS aged care homes in our area have been privatized and staff forced to TUPE over to a company called Care UK the way they have been treated is shocking they have been forced to take up new T&C's, lost current pensions, had pay cut considerably it really is sad to hear them talk about it.

[Sandgroper]

3 hours ago, bristolman said:

Yes, OK.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/a-third-of-australias-nurses-are-thinking-of-leaving-the-profession-20160928-grq75z.html

I'm thinking of winning the lotto 

[caramac]

8 hours ago, Sandgroper said:

My Doctor here is from England, of Indian descent but born and raised In England. He loves GP work but said what was expected of him in the UK was ridiculous 60-70 hr weeks with the prospect of every other weekend as the practice he worked at was being forced to open at weekends. 

He's loving it in Australia he can work set hours at a busy practice which he enjoys and acknowledges the better lifestyle available is beneficial for him and his young family.

It's sad that professionals that are passionate about there work are having that passion stifled by ridiculous working conditions and cuts to budgets, the NHS will end up staffed by migrants (not knocking them) and all privatization will achieve is a lowering of standards. We have two family members who work in aged care (NHS) one has over 30 years service, in the last couple of years all the NHS aged care homes in our area have been privatized and staff forced to TUPE over to a company called Care UK the way they have been treated is shocking they have been forced to take up new T&C's, lost current pensions, had pay cut considerably it really is sad to hear them talk about it.

It’s the same story you hear again and again re care workers. It’s shocking (or it should be, but everyone seems so resigned to poor working conditions now it’s accepted and everyone else is busy telling the carers they should be grateful to have a job at all, so stop whinging). There are some good companies to work for (my parent’s neighbours had a fabulous company, but that was completely funded by the client), but most abuse their workforce knowing that many people have no choice but to put up with it. Not being paid for overtime, penalised for taking too long with a client, not paid for travel time etc.. The bottom line is about profit and if the clients are funded by the council/government via the company then the funding has been cut, therefore so has the profit, so the workers work longer for less.

The trust my husband worked for went over to India to recruit drs from there, which is fine, except that those drs aren’t used to the way the nhs works, so can end up costing a lot more in terms of admissions etc. They were off again to somewhere else to try to recruit just after my husband left, all at the expense of the nhs.

Another trust he worked for a few years ago has gone into ‘special measures’. Lack of staff and funding are the main reasons. When my husband was there, he and colleague set up a new service which was so successful in keeping people well, in school or work and out of hospital. Those who were admitted had shorter stays and were supported well at home once they were discharged. It was so successful they were awarded more money to roll the service out further. That was until we got the coalition government and since then the service (and my husband and colleague) has disappeared, to the detriment of the people who benefitted from it. It’s so shortsighted - keeping people well and functioning, productive members of society is economically beneficial, even if you aren’t interested in the personal benefits to the individual.

Last week there were apparently no mental health care beds anywhere in England. Not one. When there are some available, patients often have to travel miles away from their families and support networks for treatment. That situation does nothing to aid recovery, nor does it help the families who then have to take time off work to visit their relatives (again an economic drain), who are often young and vulnerable. It’s disgraceful.

The public (some of them anyway) is duped into believing it’s all the fault of immigrants, health tourists, the patients and the nhs themselves, not the ‘austerity’ being forced upon the service. The nhs is affordable - we spend less in gdp terms than most other countries and it’s generally a very efficient service despite the constant and very expensive reforms imposed on it, but it’s being driven down ready for cheap privatisation. Almost every person who works within the service knows this is the case.

 

[BacktoDemocracy]

On 19/12/2017 at 21:03, caramac said:

It’s the same story you hear again and again re care workers. It’s shocking (or it should be, but everyone seems so resigned to poor working conditions now it’s accepted and everyone else is busy telling the carers they should be grateful to have a job at all, so stop whinging). There are some good companies to work for (my parent’s neighbours had a fabulous company, but that was completely funded by the client), but most abuse their workforce knowing that many people have no choice but to put up with it. Not being paid for overtime, penalised for taking too long with a client, not paid for travel time etc.. The bottom line is about profit and if the clients are funded by the council/government via the company then the funding has been cut, therefore so has the profit, so the workers work longer for less.

The trust my husband worked for went over to India to recruit drs from there, which is fine, except that those drs aren’t used to the way the nhs works, so can end up costing a lot more in terms of admissions etc. They were off again to somewhere else to try to recruit just after my husband left, all at the expense of the nhs.

Another trust he worked for a few years ago has gone into ‘special measures’. Lack of staff and funding are the main reasons. When my husband was there, he and colleague set up a new service which was so successful in keeping people well, in school or work and out of hospital. Those who were admitted had shorter stays and were supported well at home once they were discharged. It was so successful they were awarded more money to roll the service out further. That was until we got the coalition government and since then the service (and my husband and colleague) has disappeared, to the detriment of the people who benefitted from it. It’s so shortsighted - keeping people well and functioning, productive members of society is economically beneficial, even if you aren’t interested in the personal benefits to the individual.

Last week there were apparently no mental health care beds anywhere in England. Not one. When there are some available, patients often have to travel miles away from their families and support networks for treatment. That situation does nothing to aid recovery, nor does it help the families who then have to take time off work to visit their relatives (again an economic drain), who are often young and vulnerable. It’s disgraceful.

The public (some of them anyway) is duped into believing it’s all the fault of immigrants, health tourists, the patients and the nhs themselves, not the ‘austerity’ being forced upon the service. The nhs is affordable - we spend less in gdp terms than most other countries and it’s generally a very efficient service despite the constant and very expensive reforms imposed on it, but it’s being driven down ready for cheap privatisation. Almost every person who works within the service knows this is the case.

 

Its frightening, when is this country going to wake up, people are just idiots, they just believe everyone who works in public service is bone idle and the problem is because everybody is just scamming all the time, especially the millions of migrants who travel on buses and ferries for days  just to get there broken leg fixed.

[LKC]

On 19/12/2017 at 12:43, Sandgroper said:

My Doctor here is from England, of Indian descent but born and raised In England. He loves GP work but said what was expected of him in the UK was ridiculous 60-70 hr weeks with the prospect of every other weekend as the practice he worked at was being forced to open at weekends. 

He's loving it in Australia he can work set hours at a busy practice which he enjoys and acknowledges the better lifestyle available is beneficial for him and his young family.

It's sad that professionals that are passionate about there work are having that passion stifled by ridiculous working conditions and cuts to budgets, the NHS will end up staffed by migrants (not knocking them) and all privatization will achieve is a lowering of standards. We have two family members who work in aged care (NHS) one has over 30 years service, in the last couple of years all the NHS aged care homes in our area have been privatized and staff forced to TUPE over to a company called Care UK the way they have been treated is shocking they have been forced to take up new T&C's, lost current pensions, had pay cut considerably it really is sad to hear them talk about it.

At our GP surgery in Australia, out of six GP's three were from the UK.  I went to see one of them just before we moved back to the UK, and he commented about the NHS in a rather non-complimentary way. 

Having said that, we've had no problems with the NHS since we got back.  I needed to take eldest daughter to see a GP a couple of days after we got here, and they saw her the same day.  I booked an appointment for something and could be seen same day if I wanted, although I opted to book for a couple of weeks later because it wasn't urgent.  Eldest was referred to an occupational therapist by school, and less than one month later I had the appointment letter in my hand for next month.  I wonder how much this has to do with us being in Scotland though.  I know family members in other parts of the UK are always moaning that they can't see their GP until weeks later than they'd like.

[calNgary]

I just read this article and agree with John O Connell that such basic items should not be given out on free prescriptions. The NHS money can be better spent elsewhere than on Toothpaste, Anti dandruff shampoo and gluten free pasta!!!! 

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5211937/GPs-dishing-Colgate-seven-times-price-shops.html

Cal x

[newjez]

6 hours ago, calNgary said:

I just read this article and agree with John O Connell that such basic items should not be given out on free prescriptions. The NHS money can be better spent elsewhere than on Toothpaste, Anti dandruff shampoo and gluten free pasta!!!! 

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5211937/GPs-dishing-Colgate-seven-times-price-shops.html

Cal x

This probably raises other questions about whether people should receive specific food stamps or a food package as part of their benefits, especially if they have children.

Sunscreen is an important part of many chemotherapy regimes. It is often a specific and very expensive sunscreen. We're not talking holidays. Equally, there is an extremely expensive mouth wash that is used in many chemotherapy regimes to prevent mouth ulcers. The nature of the treatment dictates this.

Likewise, there are extreme dandruff conditions which requires special treatment.

There is a grain of truth in the article. The NHS used to prescribe gym memberships. I would question that, as there is plenty of free exercise available. But unfortunately the article takes things out of context and doesn't present a balanced view.

[caramac]

12 hours ago, newjez said:

This probably raises other questions about whether people should receive specific food stamps or a food package as part of their benefits, especially if they have children.

Sunscreen is an important part of many chemotherapy regimes. It is often a specific and very expensive sunscreen. We're not talking holidays. Equally, there is an extremely expensive mouth wash that is used in many chemotherapy regimes to prevent mouth ulcers. The nature of the treatment dictates this.

Likewise, there are extreme dandruff conditions which requires special treatment.

There is a grain of truth in the article. The NHS used to prescribe gym memberships. I would question that, as there is plenty of free exercise available. But unfortunately the article takes things out of context and doesn't present a balanced view.

I was going to post something similar. There are dandruff treatments, toothpastes etc which are only available on prescription for good reasons, such as possible drug interactions, comorbidities, high dosage of  ‘drug’ such as ketoconazole or fluoride, but that’s not Daily Fail ‘newsworthy’, so they take a grain of truth and mangle it to fit their own agenda.

There are plenty of drugs now available ‘over the counter’ which used to be prescription only (ranitidine, omeprazole, mebeverine, morning after pill as four off the top of my head, as well as ones newjez has pointed out, and viagra will be available from early 2018 in the UK). It’s constantly changing as research and knowledge of drugs develops. For this reason codeine containing drugs are becoming prescription only in Australia next year because it’s been found to be potentially addictive even in small doses.

There’s also the issue of only being able to buy small quantities of a drug over counter, so people who require high doses, or large quantities of painkillers etc need to have a prescription to allow them to have the amount they need. 

 

[calNgary]

2 hours ago, caramac said:

I was going to post something similar. There are dandruff treatments, toothpastes etc which are only available on prescription for good reasons, such as possible drug interactions, comorbidities, high dosage of  ‘drug’ such as ketoconazole or fluoride, but that’s not Daily Fail ‘newsworthy’, so they take a grain of truth and mangle it to fit their own agenda.

There are plenty of drugs now available ‘over the counter’ which used to be prescription only (ranitidine, omeprazole, mebeverine, morning after pill as four off the top of my head, as well as ones newjez has pointed out, and viagra will be available from early 2018 in the UK). It’s constantly changing as research and knowledge of drugs develops. For this reason codeine containing drugs are becoming prescription only in Australia next year because it’s been found to be potentially addictive even in small doses.

There’s also the issue of only being able to buy small quantities of a drug over counter, so people who require high doses, or large quantities of painkillers etc need to have a prescription to allow them to have the amount they need. 

 

But thats totally understandable as is the mouthwash etc mentioned in the post above, however items that can be purchased in supermarkets for a minimal cost like Colgate ,gluten free pasta, Yakult Yogurt etc  should not be given on prescription. It also stated the delivery costs to pharmacies for these items is expensive too. Im  aware of how some new articles are exagerrated but i dont think theyd be able to actually name products if it wasnt correct, and its the named items i disagree with.

 Cal x

[caramac]

If it’s the case that gps are prescribing these things for anyone, then I’d agree, but I’d be extremely surprised if that’s the case. Having worked in gp surgeries, I know what lengths they go to to reduce their prescription costs, so I would presume there will be good reasons for prescribing these things. The Colgate toothpaste pictured looks like it’s been provento reduce gingivitis, but it’s expensive. Without doing any research, I’d guess that it’s prescribed to those on low incomes in an attempt to reduce the cost to the nhs of treating gum disease and the other complications which arise from that. There’s an increased risk of heart disease from having gum disease, for example.

All people with coeliac disease are entitled to prescriptions for gluten free products, but the ones available on prescription are pretty unpalatable apparently, so those who can afford better quality products buy their own. It’s the poorer people who have to use the prescription products and they probably couldn’t afford to buy them themselves as they’re so much more expensive than gluten containing products. 

Given that there’s going to be a trial on giving prescriptions for ‘normal’ food in London soon, it’s not going to get better, sadly.

[starlight7]

All this is interesting as I have a family member who has just retired quite early from being a successful and well liked GP in Britain.Considering all the many years of training, leaving in your late 50s seems rather premature.  Here they don't seem to retire early at all, just cut their days down and work part time - I would have assumed it was the same over there but it seems not. Why is that?

[caramac]

1 hour ago, starlight7 said:

All this is interesting as I have a family member who has just retired quite early from being a successful and well liked GP in Britain.Considering all the many years of training, leaving in your late 50s seems rather premature.  Here they don't seem to retire early at all, just cut their days down and work part time - I would have assumed it was the same over there but it seems not. Why is that?

My husband retired from his consultant post at 55. He had what was called mental health officer status which meant he could leave then.  He would have gone on longer, but the cuts meant he was no longer able to provide the service he set up. The government also started talking about changing the way pensions are paid, so he decided to bank his before anything else changed. He then went back part time, but there are limits on how much work you can do there before they start cutting your pension (you can earn, between your pension and income, up to what you were earning before retirement). He wasn’t ready to retire really, as you say, it’s very young, so we decided to come back to Australia for a few years, at least. He’s setting up a new youth mental health service here.

We have friends who are gps and they’ve all had enough. Those who can go, are going. Those who can’t are going part time. Other, younger drs are choosing different career paths. What is your relative’s reason for leaving?

[newjez]

5 hours ago, caramac said:

If it’s the case that gps are prescribing these things for anyone, then I’d agree, but I’d be extremely surprised if that’s the case. Having worked in gp surgeries, I know what lengths they go to to reduce their prescription costs, so I would presume there will be good reasons for prescribing these things. The Colgate toothpaste pictured looks like it’s been provento reduce gingivitis, but it’s expensive. Without doing any research, I’d guess that it’s prescribed to those on low incomes in an attempt to reduce the cost to the nhs of treating gum disease and the other complications which arise from that. There’s an increased risk of heart disease from having gum disease, for example.

All people with coeliac disease are entitled to prescriptions for gluten free products, but the ones available on prescription are pretty unpalatable apparently, so those who can afford better quality products buy their own. It’s the poorer people who have to use the prescription products and they probably couldn’t afford to buy them themselves as they’re so much more expensive than gluten containing products. 

Given that there’s going to be a trial on giving prescriptions for ‘normal’ food in London soon, it’s not going to get better, sadly.

Could the toothpaste may also be prescribed to patients in hospital who forget it?

[caramac]

2 minutes ago, newjez said:

Could the toothpaste may also be prescribed to patients in hospital who forget it?

Possibly. It’s a long time since I worked on the wards, but when I did we had a supply of basics like toothpaste, soap, shampoo etc, which came out of the ward budget, rather than being prescribed. It’s probably changed now, but it wouldn’t be gps prescribing for hospital patients though.

[newjez]

3 minutes ago, caramac said:

Possibly. It’s a long time since I worked on the wards, but when I did we had a supply of basics like toothpaste, soap, shampoo etc, which came out of the ward budget, rather than being prescribed. It’s probably changed now, but it wouldn’t be gps prescribing for hospital patients though.

Or more likely it is this they are prescribing

http://www.colgateprofessional.co.uk/products/colgate-duraphat-5000ppm-fluoride-toothpaste/overview

And the daily mail just stuck in any old picture of Colgate toothpaste.

 

[caramac]

2 minutes ago, newjez said:

Or more likely it is this they are prescribing

http://www.colgateprofessional.co.uk/products/colgate-duraphat-5000ppm-fluoride-toothpaste/overview

And the daily mail just stuck in any old picture of Colgate toothpaste.

 

I did think it could be - my husband is prescribed that, but it did state Colgate total in the article. It’s not the cheap stuff, but one that contains triclosan which apparently helps combat gum disease.

It’s an old story though. Looking back it’s regurgitated from 2015. Still, it diverts attention from the real causes of a shortfall in funding...

[starlight7]

5 hours ago, caramac said:

My husband retired from his consultant post at 55. He had what was called mental health officer status which meant he could leave then.  He would have gone on longer, but the cuts meant he was no longer able to provide the service he set up. The government also started talking about changing the way pensions are paid, so he decided to bank his before anything else changed. He then went back part time, but there are limits on how much work you can do there before they start cutting your pension (you can earn, between your pension and income, up to what you were earning before retirement). He wasn’t ready to retire really, as you say, it’s very young, so we decided to come back to Australia for a few years, at least. He’s setting up a new youth mental health service here.

We have friends who are gps and they’ve all had enough. Those who can go, are going. Those who can’t are going part time. Other, younger drs are choosing different career paths. What is your relative’s reason for leaving?

As far as I know it was overwork and long hours- obviously part time work wasn't on the agenda.  She was working in Glasgow

 

[newjez]

8 hours ago, starlight7 said:

 

You can say that again!

[Peach]

Another depresssing read : https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/29/richard-branson-virgin-scoops-1bn-pounds-of-nhs-contracts?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other