State of the NHS

[bristolman]

Certainly not the case at any Brisbane Hospital, cost us a fortune to park. 

Edited November 25, 2017 by bristolman

[bristolman]

3 minutes ago, ramot said:

Oh I wish some posters would shut up!! There's good and bad in both countries!!!!!

Indeed there is. 

[VERYSTORMY]

8 hours ago, ramot said:

I promise I have no intention of an Oz against UK, but have to counter your post with an equally good one.

Yesterday Friday, I had to call an ambulance for my husband. Ambulance here within max 10 mins. 3 medics checked him ecg etc. Off to hospital, straight into trauma? unit,  obviously ecg plus goodness knows what else as I have no medical knowledge. Not a heart attack but for lack of a better description heart not right pulse very very high bp very low? Monitored for hours till stable, stayed in over night monitored constantly, staff fantastic.

On top of all this, don't laugh, I only recently had a heart procedure so my heart went into overdrive, so I had to be checked over thoroughly as well, ecg etc!!! Mine was definitely caused by.stress and calmed down but they didn't take any chances and was told to come straight back if in any pain.

So an equally good experience, a brand new hospital, state of the art equipment, can't fault the care given, just the same as my treatment when in UK this year. 

Husband home today, has to have further checks and then a similar procedure to me. You couldn't make it up, especially as neither of us thought we had a problem!! 

Generally, I found Oz health service fine. But I am still horrified that there are people dying because they don't have insurance and are too frightened to call an ambulance because of cost. In WA this made the news a few times, though nothing like as much as it should. Or people who die out of lack of funds for basic care. I know when I was unemployed but not yet on benefits I could not afford the gp fee let alone the prescription fee, even though I have a chronic issue.  The press did bits on it occasionally,, which would get a mild public outrage which would be forgotten in days, though that maybe says something about society generally in western culture today. The thing that got me though was that Oz has this supposed culture of thinking about Seniors when in reality is happy to let them hang to dry when they even need an ambulance. 

[Peach]

 

4 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Generally, I found Oz health service fine. But I am still horrified that there are people dying because they don't have insurance and are too frightened to call an ambulance because of cost. In WA this made the news a few times, though nothing like as much as it should. Or people who die out of lack of funds for basic care. I know when I was unemployed but not yet on benefits I could not afford the gp fee let alone the prescription fee, even though I have a chronic issue.  The press did bits on it occasionally,, which would get a mild public outrage which would be forgotten in days, though that maybe says something about society generally in western culture today. The thing that got me though was that Oz has this supposed culture of thinking about Seniors when in reality is happy to let them hang to dry when they even need an ambulance. 

I thought that was what the Medicare Safetynet was for?  https://www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/enablers/original-medicare-safety-net-threshold

Must be hundreds of thousands of Australians that neither have private cover, nor can afford the full cost of Medicare.

[CaptainR]

Surely the NHS cannot be sustainable in its present form? Underfunded with hospitals closing at the same time as the UK experienced unprecedented immigration. Wonderful ideals but perhaps the Middle Classes and above need to start paying their way and consider their tax contributions to the NHS as merely their social responsibility? 

The Australian system seems to be slightly more sustainable, but also appears guilty of poaching talent from overseas, countries that probably could do with not losing its best people.

I suspect as well in the UK that someone’s going experience of medical treatment in somewhere like Barnsley would be totally different to someone in Oxford... 

 

[Guest]

I read this the other day. Found it interesting. The staff shortages and other things are a bit of an eye opener. Also the numbers leaving and arriving. 

Depending on if you read the NY Times a few times over a month, it may be behind a paywall. If you generally don’t, should be able to read it. 

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/21/world/europe/nhs-brexit-eu-migrants.html

[Skani]

5 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

Or people who die out of lack of funds for basic care.  I know when I was unemployed but not yet on benefits I could not afford the gp fee let alone the prescription fee, 

So does Perth not have medical centres which bulk bill?     Or free outpatient clinics at hospitals?   This really surprises me.

Quote

 this supposed culture of thinking about Seniors when in reality is happy to let them hang to dry when they even need an ambulance. 

Apart from the states which have free ambulance services for all residents - Tasmania and Queensland - most, if not all, provide free for pension card and health card holders.

If WA doesn't,  then its residents should be voting for  state politicians with greater social consciences.

[NicF]

3 minutes ago, Skani said:

So does Perth not have medical centres which bulk bill?     Or free outpatient clinics at hospitals?   This really surprises me.

Apart from the states which have free ambulance services for all residents - Tasmania and Queensland - most, if not all, provide free for pension card and health card holders.

If WA doesn't,  then its residents should be voting for  state politicians with greater social consciences.

You can buy ambulance cover for a family for about $100 a year in SA through SA Ambulance.  Would have thought that there was a similar scheme in WA, but maybe not.  I think there are lots of ways to get assistance with health care in Australia but often Brits, used to the NHS, don’t always know about or go looking for them.

[Skani]

28 minutes ago, CaptainR said:

The Australian system seems to be slightly more sustainable, but also appears guilty of poaching talent from overseas, countries that probably could do with not losing its best people.

 

I'm not sure if poaching is the right word.  All of the UK doctors I've heard of who have instigated a move to Australia cited their frustration working in the NHS system as a major, or main  motivator.   If the NHS looked after its doctors better it wouldn't lose so many.

One of the problems with the Australian situation is doctors unwilling to work in regional and remote areas.  Overseas doctors are prepared to do this...at least for a few years.

[Peach]

Just appalling.. http://metro.co.uk/2017/07/17/nurse-ordered-to-pay-150000-parking-fine-for-unpaid-tickets-outside-hospital-6784887/

[Paul1Perth]

People are living longer, new treatments and technology breakthroughs are helping. Problem is it all costs much more. The only way to make ends meet is to cut down on staff. My wife has been a nurse all her working life and currently has a very good job in an oncology clinic. No shift work but she's done years of it.

If you're seriously ill now it's not uncommon to be wired up to multi thousand pounds worth of monitoring equipment, CAT scans, MRI and all sorts of technical whizz bang stuff that will help keep you alive for another few years.

Problem is the costs are astronomical for this equipment and it's going to get worse as average age increases and we all expect the best care.

Add to that more people needing to use services with less and less front line staff.

No easy solutions and no wonder health insurance costs go up every year.

[Paul1Perth]

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 06:40, Skani said:

So does Perth not have medical centres which bulk bill?     Or free outpatient clinics at hospitals?   This really surprises me.

Apart from the states which have free ambulance services for all residents - Tasmania and Queensland - most, if not all, provide free for pension card and health card holders.

If WA doesn't,  then its residents should be voting for  state politicians with greater social consciences.

Perth does have medical centres that bulk bill and a 24x7 clinic attached to the local hospital A and E.

Ambulance would be covered on most health insurance. 

Perths pretty good, not too crowded yet and some new hospitals and health centres recently opened.

[Paul1Perth]

Saw a full page add in our local paper last week that one of the bigger Scottish hospitals is sending a team of management and recruiting people over trying to attract nurses back.

[Guest263228]

15 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said:

Saw a full page add in our local paper last week that one of the bigger Scottish hospitals is sending a team of management and recruiting people over trying to attract nurses back.

With the shocking going on, at King Edward Memorial Hospital here in Perth, their task will no doubt be that much easier. I know of a lot of disquiet among some social workers within the system as well.

[bristolman]

The NHS still ranked as the No1 heath care system in the world, quite rightly. 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/australian-healthcare-ranked-second-best-in-developed-world/8716326

[paulswin]

Hospitals in Perth are great its just the cost associated with things that need doing like MRI's as medicare doesn't cover that.  I don't think I could afford to live out here when I'm older another reason we are going back next year!

[Peach]

36 minutes ago, paulswin said:

Hospitals in Perth are great its just the cost associated with things that need doing like MRI's as medicare doesn't cover that.  I don't think I could afford to live out here when I'm older another reason we are going back next year!

I think it’s a postcode lottery again.  Canberra has fully bulk billed outpatient imaging (including MRIs).

[Toots]

7 minutes ago, Peach said:

I think it’s a postcode lottery again.  Canberra has fully bulk billed outpatient imaging (including MRIs).

Here in Devonport (Tassie) GPs bulk bill pensioners MRI's.

[calNgary]

On 11/25/2017 at 19:15, ramot said:

Oh I wish some posters would shut up!! There's good and bad in both countries!!!!!

QLD bulk bill MRI's too.

Cal x

[DukeNinja]

Unfortunately that's not completely correct. Only certain types of MRI scans are able to be bulk billed. Some places with more than 1 scanner may have a bulk billing licence/part licence for only one of their scanners, meaning that you may not be scanned on the newest machine.

[ali]

On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 00:20, VERYSTORMY said:

Generally, I found Oz health service fine. But I am still horrified that there are people dying because they don't have insurance and are too frightened to call an ambulance because of cost. In WA this made the news a few times, though nothing like as much as it should. Or people who die out of lack of funds for basic care. I know when I was unemployed but not yet on benefits I could not afford the gp fee let alone the prescription fee, even though I have a chronic issue.  The press did bits on it occasionally,, which would get a mild public outrage which would be forgotten in days, though that maybe says something about society generally in western culture today. The thing that got me though was that Oz has this supposed culture of thinking about Seniors when in reality is happy to let them hang to dry when they even need an ambulance. 

There are many people who use ED for minor ailments .. in the health service I work at an out of hours GP is attached to the hospital ... I haven't heard of people dying because they're too frightened to call an ambulance (not saying it's not true .. but not heard of it working in the health service here for almost 11 years).  There are a lot of bulk billing practices .. more recently - my own patch has risen from 30 GP surgeries to 52 in a couple of years - many offering a bulk billing service.

 

[Perthbum]

The Tories want to destroy the NHS as it is today and palm all services into the private sector, they have been slowed down by campaign groups protests etc but within 2 decades the NHS as we know it today will not exist....I honestly think Australia has as big a problem with their health service as does the UK just to be fair.

[bristolman]

What total bollocks ?

[Perthbum]

50 minutes ago, bristolman said:

What total bollocks ?

This is from the KINGS FUND, 100% neutral as youk now and not biased in any way as you know...sets the problems out well.

Demand for health care is rising for several reasons: the population is increasing; more people are living longer, often with multiple long-term conditions; and technological advances mean that new treatments are available. As a result, health services are treating more people than ever before. For example, between 2003/4 and 2015/16, the number of admissions to hospital increased by 3.6 per cent a year.

At the same time, the service is enduring the most prolonged funding squeeze in its history. Under current spending plans, the NHS budget will increase by an average of 1.1 per cent a year between 2009/10 and 2020/21, compared to the long-term average of nearly 4 per cent a year since the NHS was established.

The mismatch between demand for services and funding is creating significant challenges. All areas of the NHS are affected, with acute hospitals, general practice,mental health and community services all under pressure. The Department of Healthreported a non-ring-fenced revenue underspend of only £55 million (or 0.05 per cent of its budget) in 2016/17. Although this was an improvement on the previous year, a significant underlying deficit remains.

At the same time, key performance targets are being missed all year round. The four-hour standard for treating patients in A&E has not been met since July 2015, the 62-day standard for beginning cancer treatment following an urgent referral has not been met for three years and the referral-to-treatment target for elective care has not been met since February 2016. Staff morale is also affected by growing workloads, staff shortages and public sector pay restraint. There is also evidence that access to some health services is being rationed and quality of care in some services is being diluted.

In the 2015 Spending Review, the government announced an increase in NHS England’s budget of £10 billion a year between 2014/15 and 2020/21, arguing that it had given the NHS the funding it asked for to implement the NHS five year forward view. The £10 billion includes new funding provided to the Department of Health but also included £2 billion of extra funding that had already been committed for 2015/16. It was also for NHS England’s budget only and relied on funds released through cuts in unprotected areas of the Department’s budget, including education and training, capital spending and investment in public health. Overall, health spending – as defined by the Department of Health’s budget – will increase by around only £4.6 billion in real terms between 2015/16 and 2020/21.

On current plans, the NHS budget is due to increase by just 0.7 per cent a year between 2017/18 and 2022/23. 2018/19 in particular will be a crunch year for the NHS with funding growth slowing to just 0.4 per cent, one of the lowest rates of growth in NHS history. In our briefing ahead of the 2017 Budget, The King’s Fund, the Health Foundation and the Nuffield Trust estimated this will leave NHS spending at least £4 billion short of what is needed next year based on our analysis of historical funding growth and projections from the Office for Budget Responsibility.

Based on the government’s current spending plans, we estimate that the projected funding gap will grow to at least £20 billion by 2022/23. The Conservative Party’smanifesto pledged to increase NHS spending by £8 billion over the next five years, to increase funding per person in real terms in each year of the parliament and to increase funding available for capital budgets. These spending promises clearly fall a long way short of what is needed.

 

[bristolman]

So that has what to do with the Tories destroying and selling off the NHS ? Nothing that I can see. It's more about improving the vast wastage than forever increasing funding.