Just 4 weeks and we are ready (ish) to head home

[Gbye grey sky]

9 hours ago, Johndoe said:

It's a peculiar trait of many people that they can't "hold their hands up" and admit that it's they who "don't fit". Somewhat like teenage angst...............we've all seen it in the movies where some goth rocks up to a teenage party held by the average run of the mill "straight" kid, and ends up sitting outside drowning their sorrows in a bottle proclaiming to a similar (feeling) disenfranchised outsider that "the world is fecked up" They never once consider that it may well be they who are fecked up.................they don't fit because of who/what they are.

All well and good to be different, but it's another thing to claim that it's the others who are to blame for their disenfranchisement......................."I did my best to fit in" "I feel out of place" blahdy blahdy blah..................OK, perhaps you did, perhaps you had bad experiences/bad neighbourhood...........whatever? But........................I get sick and tired (one of the reasons I went "inactive" of the inference that those who do fit, those who are enjoying the party and not sitting on the lawn crying in their beer, or looking for a way out of the neighbourhood, are in some way "brain dead" and are prepared to deny that their experience is one similar to the "outsider" and stick to Oz rather than admit they've made a mistake in emigrating.

The fact of the matter is that we're not blind, we do see, and what we see is entirely different to that which you claim to see/experience, either because you have experienced it in your tiny little parochial experience of Oz, (and I regret that is possible) or that you convince yourself that you have experienced  it, when in fact, it's just something you use to justify why you wish to return to the UK

Quite simply, I've yet to see any returnee declare that it was their own personality, misconceptions, or lack of research that brought about their return to the UK. Miss family, tried my best but didn't fit, Australian friendships are transient, can't make friends, miserable heat and humidity, lack of double glazing in winter, crap sausages, no Robinsons Lemon Barley Water, If you've seen one beach you've seen 'em all, the landscape is the same everywhere etc etc etc (as Yul Bryner once said - God Bless him).

All the above is reinforced by the people who have been back in the UK for years but still feel it is their duty to "warn" others of just how dire it is living in Oz and how wonderful living in the UK is, when in fact, they are on PIO most any hour of the day/night. Why? Because psychologically it reinforces their decision to return. They have to justify why they did what they did? That it wasn't their fault it didn't work out, it was Oz to blame. But do they have to justify? If they're so sure what they did was right, why then don't they just move on with theirr life rather than spend so much of that wonderful life on PIO? OH! I get it! They're all really nice altruistic people sacrificing their time to help/ convince/ justify to others that it's Australia and Australians to blame for their disappointments.

Australia/Australians aren't perfect, more imperfect like most people, they're just different to Poms. What they don't do is let difference divide them, contrary to what some posters have said about their perceptions of racism in Oz, it is no more or no less than it is in the uk and what does exist is mainly amongst the lower socio economic class..............I'll correct that, I believe it is less. Because it is less, then when a racist occurrence rears it's head in the workplace/street/media/wherever it seems more "blatant" or "pronounced" for want of better words. I have Chinese on one side of my house, Sudanese on the other, a Saffa and an Italian across the road. We all chat and get on together.....even the Saffa with the Sudanese. I have never yet, in 23 years in Oz heard the word "pakki" pronounced by anyone other than Poms.

Forgive my diatribe but it saddens me to see that the same old, same old is still going on in PIO. Love UK or Love Oz, it doesn't matter, I love both and have no need to bull up Oz at the expense of the UK as some do. Just try and stop all these false/slanted/biased justifications for your decisions, just accept that it wasn't for you, and move on,

Well said mate.

All experiences are unique I know but I moved here in August 2015 at the age of 54 having lived all of those 54 years in the south east of England.  Came with my wife (who is also English but an Aussie citizen by having a visa in the 1990s) and 11 year old daughter.  We have no family here and knew literally nobody.

Yet we are all fully settled and enjoying our lives immensely.  It is different in many ways from our lives in England but we made up our minds to embrace the differences, assimilate fully, and take a positive attitude.  Many Aussies I speak with are evidently surprised by my transition but I never slag off the UK to them but say, truthfully, that life here is overall better and I am never going to return.

If people view you as a permanent migrant I am sure that they regard you differently too.

[Gbye grey sky]

9 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

But surely the same could be said for those who love Aus and keep contradicting those who say otherwise. Why can't they just 'move on' 

The UK lovers can't tell people that they are right and vice versa...everyone is right as its what THEY feel...and THEY are speaking about THEIR experiences and how THEY see things....everyone is right if they say how THEY feel as its based on THEIR experiences.

I personally don't understand why people who love Aus feel the need to be in the 'moving back to the uk' section nor why do people who dislike Aus look in other totally irrelevant forums and then BOTH parties get annoyed when comments/threads in the forum DONT match their opinions...SHOCK!

As long as everyone is happy with the choices THEY made I don't see why others need to try and question them and make them feel bad/justifiable...stick to your own life.

The way I see people who try to 'warn' others against moving (in either direction) is that they have truly experienced something bad and feel so passionstaie about it that they just want to help people to try and see both sides of the argument....But then like someone else said on here...we don't truly appreciate/understand things until we've experienced them ourselves, no matter how much advice etc they received.

Their is no right or wrong answer (other than what has affected/happened to you) and everyone should just stick to their own lives!

 

MBTTUK forum is a useful tool for prospective migrants to Oz though and not just returning migrants.  I certainly read it a lot prior to moving and it was helpful to get some balance too from a few posters who had found out how to make the move work for them and their families and not simply a diet of misery.  Indeed, I am sure that this forum helped me to avoid some of the pitfalls the unhappy migrants fall into.

[Toots]

4 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

But surely the same could be said for those who love Aus and keep contradicting those who say otherwise. Why can't they just 'move on' 

The UK lovers can't tell people that they are right and vice versa...everyone is right as its what THEY feel...and THEY are speaking about THEIR experiences and how THEY see things....everyone is right if they say how THEY feel as its based on THEIR experiences.

I personally don't understand why people who love Aus feel the need to be in the 'moving back to the uk' section nor why do people who dislike Aus look in other totally irrelevant forums and then BOTH parties get annoyed when comments/threads in the forum DONT match their opinions...SHOCK!

As long as everyone is happy with the choices THEY made I don't see why others need to try and question them and make them feel bad/justifiable...stick to your own life.

The way I see people who try to 'warn' others against moving (in either direction) is that they have truly experienced something bad and feel so passionstaie about it that they just want to help people to try and see both sides of the argument....But then like someone else said on here...we don't truly appreciate/understand things until we've experienced them ourselves, no matter how much advice etc they received.

Their is no right or wrong answer (other than what has affected/happened to you) and everyone should just stick to their own lives!

 

For sure folk should just stick to their own lives.  I have plenty of time for migrants who move back to their country of origin.  I have good friends who moved back years ago and are happy.  I think what gets up my nose is the constant whinging of some members and the life they had in Australia.  They were bored, miserable, homesick etc etc but I think it's the harping on and on about it in just about every post.  Now that is boring.  They also hint that us happy souls here are intellectually challenged, unadventurous, or just plain brain dead.  It's also used to inform us just how well travelled they are now they are back in their 'own' country   ..............   well whoopy doo.  I for one travel a fair bit and am definitely not stuck in some kind of a rut.  So yes, I do wish they would stick to their own lives and understand that my life for one, is not in any way similar to the life they seem to have struggled with when they were here.

[ramot]

18 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

But surely the same could be said for those who love Aus and keep contradicting those who say otherwise. Why can't they just 'move on' 

The UK lovers can't tell people that they are right and vice versa...everyone is right as its what THEY feel...and THEY are speaking about THEIR experiences and how THEY see things....everyone is right if they say how THEY feel as its based on THEIR experiences.

I personally don't understand why people who love Aus feel the need to be in the 'moving back to the uk' section nor why do people who dislike Aus look in other totally irrelevant forums and then BOTH parties get annoyed when comments/threads in the forum DONT match their opinions...SHOCK!

As long as everyone is happy with the choices THEY made I don't see why others need to try and question them and make them feel bad/justifiable...stick to your own life.

The way I see people who try to 'warn' others against moving (in either direction) is that they have truly experienced something bad and feel so passionstaie about it that they just want to help people to try and see both sides of the argument....But then like someone else said on here...we don't truly appreciate/understand things until we've experienced them ourselves, no matter how much advice etc they received.

Their is no right or wrong answer (other than what has affected/happened to you) and everyone should just stick to their own lives!

 

It's an open forum,  sections aren't restricted,  and although I have no intention of moving back, I might one day who knows? 

[Toots]

1 minute ago, ramot said:

It's an open forum,  sections aren't restricted,  and although I have no intention of moving back, I might one day who knows? 

Exactly Ramot.  You never know what's in the future.  Life is still an adventure.  

[wattsy1982]

2 minutes ago, Toots said:

I think what gets up my nose is the constant whinging of some members and the life they had in Australia.  They were bored, miserable, homesick etc etc but I think it's the harping on and on about it in just about every post.  Now that is boring.  They also hint that us happy souls here are intellectually challenged, unadventurous, or just plain brain dead.  It's also used to inform us just how well travelled they are now they are back in their 'own' country   ..............   well whoopy doo.

But they are only commenting on how their life was and how they felt....how do we know it wasn't true?? 

likewise, with THEIR opinions on how well THEY are travelled etc.....they are entitled to THEIR opinion.....freedom of speech in the world, long may it live.

I don't agree or disagree with either comments but I respect that;

a) what they say is THEIR opinion based on their experiences of Aus/Uk

b) what they say has NO affect on my life what so ever

[wattsy1982]

3 minutes ago, ramot said:

It's an open forum,  sections aren't restricted,  and although I have no intention of moving back, I might one day who knows? 

100% agree that its open and you/anybody is free to roam....BUT it makes be laugh/confused when people look/comment on a thread that has no reference to their life (at that time - moving back too uk etc) and then get annoyed when people who ARE in that situation say good or bad things about x our y

[Marisawright]

28 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

But surely the same could be said for those who love Aus and keep contradicting those who say otherwise. Why can't they just 'move on' 

The UK lovers can't tell people that they are right and vice versa...everyone is right as its what THEY feel...and THEY are speaking about THEIR experiences and how THEY see things....everyone is right if they say how THEY feel as its based on THEIR experiences

Of course it works both ways, that point has been made several times.  I've seen both recently - one person saying "living anywhere in Australia is better than living in the UK" (which is clearly bull$***), while another says "Australia is deadly dull compared to the UK" (also cleary bull$***).   We're all entitled to talk about how we feel, but don't slag off an entire country because you hated the place you lived in.  

The thing is, people would fall about laughing if you tried to tell them that living in Polperro was the same as living in Brixton, so why do people keep talking in whole-country terms?

[wattsy1982]

1 minute ago, Marisawright said:

Of course it works both ways, that point has been made several times.  I've seen both recently - one person saying "living anywhere in Australia is better than living in the UK" (which is clearly bull$***), while another says "Australia is deadly dull compared to the UK" (also cleary bull$***).   We're all entitled to talk about how we feel, but don't slag off an entire country because you hated the place you lived in.  

The thing is, people would fall about laughing if you tried to tell them that living in Polperro was the same as living in Brixton, so why do people keep talking in whole-country terms?

I hear you but why does any of it bother you?

does it effect your life at all?

just saying.....

[Marisawright]

41 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

I hear you but why does any of it bother you?

does it effect your life at all?

No, it doesn't, but it could have a huge effect on the people asking for advice.

Someone comes here and says they're unsure whether to move back to the UK.  People pile in with posts saying "The UK has changed, it's terrible now, don't do it".   Alternatively, people pop in to say, "Britain is wonderful, marvellous, it's perfect, don't hesitate!"  Both of those are wild exaggerations which at best, confuse the questioner and at worst, could influence them to make an expensive decision based on totally unrealistic expectations.

I could think to myself, "this isn't my problem, I'll just shut up", but that's not fair on the questioner.  I'm not trying to talk anyone out of a decision where it's been made - I'm trying to make sure that where opinions are expressed, they're balanced and helpful, not silly distortions.    

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by Marisawright

[wattsy1982]

2 minutes ago, Marisawright said:

No, it doesn't, but it could have a huge effect on the people asking for advice.

Someone comes here and says they're unsure whether to move back to the UK.  People pile in with posts saying "The UK has changed, it's terrible now, don't do it".   Alternatively, people pop in to say, "Britain is wonderful, marvellous, it's perfect, don't hesitate!"  Both of those are wild exaggerations which at best, confuse the questioner and at worst, could influence them to make an expensive decision based on totally unrealistic expectations.

I could think to myself, "this isn't my problem, I'll just shut up", but that's not fair on the questioner.  I'm not trying to talk anyone out of a decision where it's been made - I'm trying to make sure that where opinions are expressed, they're balanced and helpful, not silly distortions.    

 

Personally I wouldnt make any huge decision about my life based on other peoples opinions...

[Marisawright]

3 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

Personally I wouldnt make any huge decision about my life based on other peoples opinions...

That's your choice.  The forums exist so people can ask for advice and opinions from other people before they make the move (in either direction), so clearly there are people in this world who DO value other people's opinions...

[wattsy1982]

I take opinions on board sure but at the end of the day it would be my choice based on my feelings etc

[ali]

4 hours ago, wattsy1982 said:

hBut surely the same could be said for those who love Aus and keep contradicting those who say otherwise. Why can't they just 'move on' 

The UK lovers can't tell people that they are right and vice versa...everyone is right as its what THEY feel...and THEY are speaking about THEIR experiences and how THEY see things....everyone is right if they say how THEY feel as its based on THEIR experiences.

I personally don't understand why people who love Aus feel the need to be in the 'moving back to the uk' section nor why do people who dislike Aus look in other totally irrelevant forums and then BOTH parties get annoyed when comments/threads in the forum DONT match their opinions...SHOCK!

As long as everyone is happy with the choices THEY made I don't see why others need to try and question them and make them feel bad/justifiable...stick to your own life.

The way I see people who try to 'warn' others against moving (in either direction) is that they have truly experienced something bad and feel so passionstaie about it that they just want to help people to try and see both sides of the argument....But then like someone else said on here...we don't truly appreciate/understand things until we've experienced them ourselves, no matter how much advice etc they received.

Their is no right or wrong answer (other than what has affected/happened to you) and everyone should just stick to their own lives!

 

Just as an aside - it's just called UK chat now (not MBTUK) and the emphasis is no longer just  on those returning to the UK,    Some of the membership who live in Aus have been very supportive of returnee's and some who have returned to the UK have been very supportive of those starting their migration journey.  

I totally agree, that if you are happy with the choices you've made then it's the right one for you. 

[Gbye grey sky]

2 hours ago, wattsy1982 said:

I hear you but why does any of it bother you?

does it effect your life at all?

just saying.....

What always strikes me as strange and an oxymoron is feeling it necessary to comment or complain about people who post opinion while at the same time professing to not give a shit about what people’s opinions are anyway.

Personally I think a variety of personal experiences and opinions about emigrating are a good thing.  I suspect that most on here seeking some sort of advice or guidance from people who have ‘been there and done that’ can filter out the few posters who are either ridiculously biased or creating mischief as most seem to provide sincere, balanced perspectives and long may those posters take the time and trouble to do so, I say.

[Maybe]

The posts have definitely been helpful to me - makes you realise you are not alone in having doubts after such a big move! I think one need to be careful though in what to do in response - and read the posts as just other peoples experiences and realise we are all different and to find your own way. I haven't found mine yet - but at least I feel there are options - and none is right or wrong - as someone helpfully pointed out - if not sharing w family, or on this forum, or w friends or therapist - it is easy to feel completely stuck, I guess reading peoples stories experiences emotions opens up ideas/possibilities - which is a more positive place to be. 

[tea4too]

14 hours ago, wattsy1982 said:

But they are only commenting on how their life was and how they felt....how do we know it wasn't true?? 

likewise, with THEIR opinions on how well THEY are travelled etc.....they are entitled to THEIR opinion.....freedom of speech in the world, long may it live.

I don't agree or disagree with either comments but I respect that;

a) what they say is THEIR opinion based on their experiences of Aus/Uk

b) what they say has NO affect on my life what so ever

 I tend to agree @wattsy1982.  If people say they love or dislike something they probably do. They may go over the top describing whatever it is, but that’s a subjective judgment too, and who knows whether we are reading a true reaction to an experience or simply how the individual deals with most things in life?

 Having said that, I too tire of the competitive posts. Not generally the ones that provide an alternative view but the ones where the poster’s default position is to pour scorn on either the UK or Aus. Or worse, where the poster pretends they have no axe to grind yet can’t help themself when it comes to it. However it is relatively easy to skip those contributions because after a while you get to know which posts to avoid. 

Ultimately though it is PIO, full of very different people with different experiences, likes and dislikes and it’s inevitable that will be reflected in the variety of posts. T x

[bunbury61]

17 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

Well said mate.

All experiences are unique I know but I moved here in August 2015 at the age of 54 having lived all of those 54 years in the south east of England.  Came with my wife (who is also English but an Aussie citizen by having a visa in the 1990s) and 11 year old daughter.  We have no family here and knew literally nobody.

Yet we are all fully settled and enjoying our lives immensely.  It is different in many ways from our lives in England but we made up our minds to embrace the differences, assimilate fully, and take a positive attitude.  Many Aussies I speak with are evidently surprised by my transition but I never slag off the UK to them but say, truthfully, that life here is overall better and I am never going to return.

If people view you as a permanent migrant I am sure that they regard you differently too.

a lot of truth in that post kev .

[Johndoe]

On 3/5/2018 at 11:13, wattsy1982 said:

I take opinions on board sure but at the end of the day it would be my choice based on my feelings etc

So are you saying that those opinions taken on board don't affect your decision? Of course they must. Everything in life "taken on board" affects your thinking, consciously or subconsciously. Negatives or positives all to some extent influence your thinking and ultimately, your decision making. It therefore follows that someone who comes to PIO for advice/research are influenced by the usual suspects and those (perhaps) with a "warmer heart" may not be able to cut through the bullshit that is often spouted by the axe grinders.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Johndoe

[wattsy1982]

8 minutes ago, Johndoe said:

So are you saying that those opinions taken on board don't affect your decision? Of course they must. Everything in life "taken on board" affects your thinking, consciously or subconsciously. Negatives or positives all to some extent influence your thinking and ultimately, your decision making. It therefore follows that someone who comes to PIO for advice/research are influenced by the usual suspects and those (perhaps) with a "warmer heart" may not be able to cut through the bullshit that is often spouted by the axe grinders.

If I didn't want to do something or think it was the right decision i wouldn't do it, regardless of who/how many people told me to do it

[bristolman]

55 minutes ago, wattsy1982 said:

If I didn't want to do something or think it was the right decision i wouldn't do it, regardless of who/how many people told me to do it

I agree, if I had listened to the usual susects there is no way we would have come to the UK as it was made out to be some sort of 3rd world hellhole. I wouldn't move in either direction based on the opinions of random people on a forum. It has to be something you want to do. 

[simmo]

On 05/03/2018 at 02:00, ali said:

Just as an aside - it's just called UK chat now (not MBTUK) and the emphasis is no longer just  on those returning to the UK,    Some of the membership who live in Aus have been very supportive of returnee's and some who have returned to the UK have been very supportive of those starting their migration journey.  

I totally agree, that if you are happy with the choices you've made then it's the right one for you. 

And some have been very critical and insulting.

[ali]

2 hours ago, simmo said:

And some have been very critical and insulting.

On both sides - I agree, but lets' not tar everyone with the same brush - after all, it's just a minority it spoil it 

[Johndoe]

7 hours ago, wattsy1982 said:

If I didn't want to do something or think it was the right decision i wouldn't do it, regardless of who/how many people told me to do it

That's an oversimplification of what actually happens to \in the human condition. It's not that anyone is telling you what to do. What you do is (should be) based on what you want and knowledge of consequences if you do, or do not do it. It's based on learning/collating information and experience. So if that information you receive is biased/slanted, and you don't perceive that, because you have little experience of the dispenser of the information, then the decisions you make will be influenced by that bias. You may think it's right based on your learning/judgement but if you base it's "rightness" on duff information when you think that information is sound, then you may well make the wrong decisions.  Only impulsive people make decisions with little thought. but thinking something through, does not necessarily mean that you will arrive at the right decision.

Most decisions are based on thought, and that thought is influenced by information/experience you receive/have received. So if you can't see through the bullshit information, either because you are dim, or just trusting of the media/person feeding you that information, then of course, you can make a wrong decision based on incorrect info/learning/experience. Nobody is immune, unless they're extremely knowledgeable about the validity of the information or the honesty/reliability of the person imparting it, and those persons may be very convincing or you may simply be very trusting.

It would be one in a million who isn't influenced by what they see or hear, whether they want to do something or not. What do you think influences "want to" ? "Want to" isn't something that's just conjured up in your mind. It's based on influences...................and there's some bad/biased/bitter influences on forums that can convince you that they're anything but.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by Johndoe

[deborahj]

Hello all 

Ive been reading this post with interest. We moved to cairns from Manchester 19 months ago. We sold everything and came on a  457 visa.  I’m employed with a good employer and feel fairly settled career wise now I’ve jumped through every hoop imaginable and progressing well. My husband however cannot abide it. It was never his dream to come here he did it because I wanted to. He cannot find work (has applied for 139 jobs with no luck or interview!) and it has limited culture. It is however extreamly beautiful but that wans after time.  The children are settled one in year 11 and one in year 5, however out 15 year old misses a city and the cultural vibe. 

Although we are not happy here in Cairns we cannot dismiss Australia yet, we will move to Melbourne and see if the seasonal changes and culture help us to feel more at home! We’re not sure we are doing the right thing but we feel we cannot cut our losses just yet. We’ve spent everything we had on settling up, have limited savings to move and would be in a sorry state on returning to the U.K. any advice would be massively appreciated.