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Big bird 12

187 Visa Processing Time

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3 hours ago, MilaMocha said:

Same here, Restaurant Manager, refusal received yesterday after 17 months.

Reason: No genuine need.

We will appeal as there is 100% genuine need.

Looks like the CO spent 5 minutes on the file, made heaps of assumptions (some very stupid), overlooked facts and number, etc.

A very weak refusal, for a very strong case. Sad is- it will add 1-2 years to the waiting game but we’re not giving up.

Very sad for u Mila mocha I hope u will win on AAT..

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2 hours ago, mark23 said:

Bikas88 it all depends on if all the applications were made at the same time. There is no guarantee that your file will be seen to even if they were submitted together. There are a few cases here on this forum where people who have applied after their colleagues but have got their nomination and visas much before. So unfortunately there is no rule of first come-first served. When did you apply for your application?

I applied on feb 20,2018. My one workmate applied on same day and his nomination approved yesterday. My another workmate applied on nov 2017 and immi ask for further documents requested today.

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5 hours ago, Bikas88 said:

I applied on feb 20,2018. My one workmate applied on same day and his nomination approved yesterday. My another workmate applied on nov 2017 and immi ask for further documents requested today.

Like I said there's no guarantee I have a friend who applied from NSW in June 2017 and is still waiting.

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9 hours ago, MilaMocha said:

Same here, Restaurant Manager, refusal received yesterday after 17 months.

Reason: No genuine need.

We will appeal as there is 100% genuine need.

Looks like the CO spent 5 minutes on the file, made heaps of assumptions (some very stupid), overlooked facts and number, etc.

A very weak refusal, for a very strong case. Sad is- it will add 1-2 years to the waiting game but we’re not giving up.

Same here Mila Mocha, I think u are the only one who is always very active and involved in this forum. Many people get benefit with the knowledge u shared in recent times.

Its a huge shock to hear about you. Hope you win ur battle. it might be long but worth. 

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12 hours ago, ring3018 said:

Cafe and restaurant manager here - After 21 months, my nomination is refused. Applied 07/2017
Reasons: the business won't be able to pay for the next 2 years due to business in loss, no documents requested, the CO mentions in our nomination that there's no letter of explanation attached. We are really frustrated as we worked for the business 2 years already and the loss is due to the business sold another business. With a simple request for more documents, we are surely can explain the reason but the CO, initial S decided not to.

We decided to go on AAT.

Immigration is not required to ask for more documents.  It's up to the applicant (in this case the applicant is your employer) to provide all the information that supports the nomination such as explaining the financial position of the business.


____________________________________________________

186 ENS Temporary Residence Transition - Granted Dec 2013 :biggrin:

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10 hours ago, mark23 said:

Yeah it's really sad to hear about your situation... infact the other day we were talking about hopefully we don't have to wait for 24months. I'm pretty sure you will win at the tribunal. All the very best!!! @MilaMocha

Hi mark how about?? Have you done your skill assessment?? How long u have been waiting?

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On 21/05/2019 at 12:42, Rian said:

Sorry just wondering what is BVA?

Also, I have been here In Australia for nearly 10 years, but I haven't able to get my PR Until now but hoping to get soon.

 

Thanks for your reply. I hope so and plz wish all of us for a positive outcome.

 

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11 hours ago, Bikas88 said:

I applied on feb 20,2018. My one workmate applied on same day and his nomination approved yesterday. My another workmate applied on nov 2017 and immi ask for further documents requested today.

Good luck...U may be getting ur golden ticket very soon

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3 hours ago, Sameer 120 said:

Hi mark how about?? Have you done your skill assessment?? How long u have been waiting?

Hi Sameer...I haven't done my skills assessment yet coz it's difficult to prove 3yrs full-time work experience for my case as I have been working at a few different places and all have been casual employment...I've been waiting since September 2017

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Just now, mark23 said:

Hi Sameer...I haven't done my skills assessment yet coz it's difficult to prove 3yrs full-time work experience for my case as I have been working at a few different places and all have been casual employment...I've been waiting since September 2017

You can count your casual employment as well on pro rata basis . Hopefully you will be all right.

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Just wanted to thank everyone for their encouraging words and wishing me luck❣️

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I do not sing in the shower, I think in the shower. 

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Hi everyone,

 

I've been silently following this thread since the start of the year and I'm finally ready to submit me 187 RSMS DE visa application this month.

I'm applying as a Secretary (General) Anszso - 521211.

I haven't heard of anyone else applying under this occupation but my MA assures me that because it's on the SOL and I have 8+ years experience that I have a very strong application.

 

Employer - Large civil construction company

Turnover - $20m+

Employees - 200+ (none of whom are currently sponsored on visas)

Location - Regional QLD

 

Can anyone tell me if they've applied for a 187 visa with a similar occupation? Any advise?

Thanks 🙂

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7 hours ago, MaggieMay24 said:

Immigration is not required to ask for more documents.  It's up to the applicant (in this case the applicant is your employer) to provide all the information that supports the nomination such as explaining the financial position of the business.

I agree that without the important documents they are not required to ask for documents. However, we restaurant and cafe managers got refused at the same time for basically the same reasons while Kumar's case here got requested several things like genuine positions, financial documents, ... and got approved. The waiting time for 187 is insanely long as you can see 2 years compared to 2013-2016 and the visa fee is increasing every year as well, it is really cruel to refuse without the need to clarify things, we are human, not robots. We definitely followed the checklist carefully, my employer is not playing a guessing game here, she's surprised as well as the business is 10 years old, the applicant is already worked for the business, we even supplied the bank statement and payslip for 2 years, and he looked at the financial documents after 21 months and predict the future that the employer is unable to pay for the next 2 years?

Moreover, you can see nonsense reasons above like assume that the owner can be the managers. I bet they can refuse 1000 cases like that without requesting documents.

It is understandable if the matter is refused for not providing relevant documents/information as per the published checklists, such as evidence of market salary or a Contract of Employment.

However, the current decisions emanating from the Department, other than being “jurisdictional errors”, are also a breach of natural justice where, despite providing evidence, it is not seen as adequate by the Case Officer based on his/her views that are outside the parameters of the laws and policies. Under the circumstances, seeking at least one response from the client, which may result in the reversal of a decision, is the basic principles of “natural justice” which forms the basis of all legal processes in Australia.

As such, the case officer’s reasons are his/her personal and unsubstantiated view. 

Ask any migration agents and you will see, we got refused based on things that are not on the checklist and assumptions. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ring3018 said:

I agree that without the important documents they are not required to ask for documents. However, we restaurant and cafe managers got refused at the same time for basically the same reasons while Kumar's case here got requested several things like genuine positions, financial documents, ... and got approved. The waiting time for 187 is insanely long as you can see 2 years compared to 2013-2016 and the visa fee is increasing every year as well, it is really cruel to refuse without the need to clarify things, we are human, not robots. We definitely followed the checklist carefully, my employer is not playing a guessing game here, she's surprised as well as the business is 10 years old, the applicant is already worked for the business, we even supplied the bank statement and payslip for 2 years, and he looked at the financial documents after 21 months and predict the future that the employer is unable to pay for the next 2 years?

Moreover, you can see nonsense reasons above like assume that the owner can be the managers. I bet they can refuse 1000 cases like that without requesting documents.

It is understandable if the matter is refused for not providing relevant documents/information as per the published checklists, such as evidence of market salary or a Contract of Employment.

However, the current decisions emanating from the Department, other than being “jurisdictional errors”, are also a breach of natural justice where, despite providing evidence, it is not seen as adequate by the Case Officer based on his/her views that are outside the parameters of the laws and policies. Under the circumstances, seeking at least one response from the client, which may result in the reversal of a decision, is the basic principles of “natural justice” which forms the basis of all legal processes in Australia.

As such, the case officer’s reasons are his/her personal and unsubstantiated view. 

Ask any migration agents and you will see, we got refused based on things that are not on the checklist and assumptions. 

 

It's always sad and frustrating to get refused after such a long wait. I believe everyone here would be genuine people applying for their visa's, even if they have changed occupations. The part that requires the employer to state a genuine need in the organisation in order to be sponsored is completely annoying and irrelevant according to me. "There is a job and you are there to fulfill the role of the requirements - simple as that and that's the reason why your being employed" I don't understand why it needs to be stated as a genuine need and how a CO can determine that there is no need for the position just by reading a few documents. Most of these cases are being refused as a money making racket.

Can you imagine the money they are making with the number of refusals. Lastly it all depends on luck if you get a good CO they will give you some time to clarify their doubts and ask for more information but if you get a bad CO they will give you a refusal without giving you time to clarify anything even when things are as clear and transparent.

Edited by mark23
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50 minutes ago, mark23 said:

It's always sad and frustrating to get refused after such a long wait. I believe everyone here would be genuine people applying for their visa's, even if they have changed occupations. The part that requires the employer to state a genuine need in the organisation in order to be sponsored is completely annoying and irrelevant according to me. "There is a job and you are there to fulfill the role of the requirements - simple as that and that's the reason why your being employed" I don't understand why it needs to be stated as a genuine need and how a CO can determine that there is no need for the position just by reading a few documents. Most of these cases are being refused as a money making racket.

Can you imagine the money they are making with the number of refusals. Lastly it all depends on luck if you get a good CO they will give you some time to clarify their doubts and ask for more information but if you get a bad CO they will give you a refusal without giving you time to clarify anything even when things are as clear and transparent.

I think it should get exposed in media in the world so every country knows how Australia is making money and how cruel and racial they are ?

Also , I bet if you ask Australians to appear for IELTS 50% wouldn't know spellings of words, qualifying the exam is secondary.

Most people are only busy in analysing ways and methods to cheat Centrelink to get the maximum payment from them for their survival without having to work.

Kids aged 10 years are involved in crime and stealing. They are not scared of anyone. Instead of understanding these complex issues which will ruin the country in the long run. They are focussing on cheating migrants.

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41 minutes ago, Tosh14 said:

Also , I bet if you ask Australians to appear for IELTS 50% wouldn't know spellings of words, qualifying the exam is secondary.

Most people are only busy in analysing ways and methods to cheat Centrelink to get the maximum payment from them for their survival without having to work.

Kids aged 10 years are involved in crime and stealing. They are not scared of anyone. Instead of understanding these complex issues which will ruin the country in the long run. They are focussing on cheating migrants.

I think your statement is a bit harsh tbh. A lot of native English speakers would struggle with IELTS, but that’s not the primary reason for this test, it’s the non native speakers who need to be able to communicate at a decent level of English (verbal and written) in order to function in the Australian workplace. 

Most people are trying to con Centrelink? Most? Yes some people do this but those type of people exist everywhere. One if the reasons the spouse visas take so long now is because of the number of fraudulent marriages, from overseas nationals trying to con their way into the country. It works both ways.

10 year olds involved in crime is not unique to Australia, it’s a bit of an odd thing to say.

I genuinely don’t think immigration is out to cheat migrants. 

Seriously, the number of people who apply for visas alone, or rely on some dodgy MA is why there’s so many refusals. All the criteria for the visa is not on immigrations website, they actually advise potential migrants to use a MARA registered agent who should know the details to ensure the applications are full and complete at the time of lodgement.

Its why immigration should not be relied on for advice, they actually have insurance for the bad advice their phone operators provide. It’s incredibly complex, more so than I think people realise. 

I don’t know if you are trying to migrate to Australia, but don’t bother if you have such a poor opinion of the country.

 

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Due to escalating bills and budgetary cuts in the NHS, unfortunately, the light at the end of the tunnel has had to be switched off.

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2 hours ago, mark23 said:

It's always sad and frustrating to get refused after such a long wait. I believe everyone here would be genuine people applying for their visa's, even if they have changed occupations. The part that requires the employer to state a genuine need in the organisation in order to be sponsored is completely annoying and irrelevant according to me. "There is a job and you are there to fulfill the role of the requirements - simple as that and that's the reason why your being employed" I don't understand why it needs to be stated as a genuine need and how a CO can determine that there is no need for the position just by reading a few documents. Most of these cases are being refused as a money making racket.

Can you imagine the money they are making with the number of refusals. Lastly it all depends on luck if you get a good CO they will give you some time to clarify their doubts and ask for more information but if you get a bad CO they will give you a refusal without giving you time to clarify anything even when things are as clear and transparent.

 

7 hours ago, MilaMocha said:

Just wanted to thank everyone for their encouraging words and wishing me luck❣️

Don’t worry bro.  there are so many people like me with you, who got 187 nomination refusal on unnecessary ground. After waiting for a year, I got refusal saying nominator could not demonstrate the need of another managerial position. So position is not genuine even though there are around 80 employees working in my company. They didn’t ask any documents. I don’t know the chances of Winning AAT because there are around 9 people before me in AAT queue from same company and the reason is same for everyone not genuine position. 

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52 minutes ago, Wonderingaloud said:

I think your statement is a bit harsh tbh. A lot of native English speakers would struggle with IELTS, but that’s not the primary reason for this test, it’s the non native speakers who need to be able to communicate at a decent level of English (verbal and written) in order to function in the Australian workplace. 

Most people are trying to con Centrelink? Most? Yes some people do this but those type of people exist everywhere. One if the reasons the spouse visas take so long now is because of the number of fraudulent marriages, from overseas nationals trying to con their way into the country. It works both ways.

10 year olds involved in crime is not unique to Australia, it’s a bit of an odd thing to say.

I genuinely don’t think immigration is out to cheat migrants. 

Seriously, the number of people who apply for visas alone, or rely on some dodgy MA is why there’s so many refusals. All the criteria for the visa is not on immigrations website, they actually advise potential migrants to use a MARA registered agent who should know the details to ensure the applications are full and complete at the time of lodgement.

Its why immigration should not be relied on for advice, they actually have insurance for the bad advice their phone operators provide. It’s incredibly complex, more so than I think people realise. 

I don’t know if you are trying to migrate to Australia, but don’t bother if you have such a poor opinion of the country.

 

I agree with most of the points you've made including if there were no IELTS, you can well imagine the level of people who would be coming in, that being said I can only presume that @Tosh14 has said all of this in utter frustration. The point on 10year olds being criminals, I guess that happens in all countries so no need on going there but cheating Centrelink and cheating DWP (department of works and pensions- UK) is something serious and when she mentioned most people...I have to agree with this it is definitely most people. Infact the Liberals who say that imigrants are the ones who are spunging the economy it's complete bullshit as immigrants are funding the economy and funding the scumbags that spung of Centrelink.

The last point about dodgy MA- I guess all migration agent are registered through MARA...there's not a single agent who can file your application without being registered. Unfortunately some of these dodgy MA's are also registered and don't even know what they are doing...so who are you going to rely on when they all are registered. I would strongly recommend everyone to do they own research before proceeding with any MA.

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On 22/05/2019 at 20:23, MilaMocha said:

Same here, Restaurant Manager, refusal received yesterday after 17 months.

Reason: No genuine need.

We will appeal as there is 100% genuine need.

Looks like the CO spent 5 minutes on the file, made heaps of assumptions (some very stupid), overlooked facts and number, etc.

A very weak refusal, for a very strong case. Sad is- it will add 1-2 years to the waiting game but we’re not giving up.

Hey I found a case which is similar to yours, hope you can use it as an example 

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/AATA/2019/944.html?context=1;query=141111 and 5.19 ;mask_path=au/cases/cth/AATA

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16 minutes ago, mark23 said:

I agree with most of the points you've made including if there were no IELTS, you can well imagine the level of people who would be coming in, that being said I can only presume that @Tosh14 has said all of this in utter frustration. The point on 10year olds being criminals, I guess that happens in all countries so no need on going there but cheating Centrelink and cheating DWP (department of works and pensions- UK) is something serious and when she mentioned most people...I have to agree with this it is definitely most people. Infact the Liberals who say that imigrants are the ones who are spunging the economy it's complete bullshit as immigrants are funding the economy and funding the scumbags that spung of Centrelink.

The last point about dodgy MA- I guess all migration agent are registered through MARA...there's not a single agent who can file your application without being registered. Unfortunately some of these dodgy MA's are also registered and don't even know what they are doing...so who are you going to rely on when they all are registered. I would strongly recommend everyone to do they own research before proceeding with any MA.

Almost agree with all your points, but not all people who call themselves migration agents are registered. I’ve been on multiple websites people have posted on this forum, to see out of curiosity and  some are very convincing but others are so obviously dodgy you have to wonder how people can be so ignorant. They are ultimately scams and the so called MAs are definitely not Mara registered. Anyone can fill out an application for a visa. Also how many posts have you read where they refer to ‘my lawyer’. It’s frustrating, because people don’t research the system enough, and wonder why they get a refusal. 

I agree there are some registered agents that are incompetent but because they are registered with Mara, the consumer has some degree of protection. I guess the word I am looking for is reputable, and to find that out comes down to research like you say. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree about Centrelink, my point is this is not something unique to Australia. People in countries all over the world are exploiting money and benefits from the government. I don’t think that ‘most’ people are doing this in Australia. 

I agree immigration makes a lot of money from migrants. But they’d make far less if people educated themselves. 

Fuethermore, migration is a privilege and not a right, it’s a lot harder to migrate to some other countries. Australia is in my opinion, a wonderful place to live, and a lot of others must agree hence the wait queues for visas and the fact this forum a) exists and b) is so popular.

It does wind me up when people complain about immigration, it is what it is, they should be grateful for the oppurtunity IMO.

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Due to escalating bills and budgetary cuts in the NHS, unfortunately, the light at the end of the tunnel has had to be switched off.

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Hi guys it’s been very stressful journey Here is my timeline

RCB-2017 March

Nomination and Visa- 20 June 2017

occupation - Cook 

Business- fine dining restaurant 

State- South Australia 

Nomination- Granted 23rd May 2019

Sponsored- 3 people All got nominations approved 2,cooks, one Manager.

Document requested for nomination- Nil

requested document for visa- Police clearance and medical.

High risk country- yes

Applicant -3

Visa to approve- waiting 

since waiting from. 24 months, finally days comes to an end. I hope everyone get their nominations and visa soon. My best wishes to u all. Do not kill your hope. Your days will comes also refusals applicants please fight hard and achieve and follow your ultimate dream. Wish u very best of luck. Jai mata Di

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Is there any chance if immi call to the business after nomination approved...?????...

 

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52 minutes ago, Wonderingaloud said:

I think your statement is a bit harsh tbh. A lot of native English speakers would struggle with IELTS, but that’s not the primary reason for this test, it’s the non native speakers who need to be able to communicate at a decent level of English (verbal and written) in order to function in the Australian workplace. 

Most people are trying to con Centrelink? Most? Yes some people do this but those type of people exist everywhere. One if the reasons the spouse visas take so long now is because of the number of fraudulent marriages, from overseas nationals trying to con their way into the country. It works both ways.

10 year olds involved in crime is not unique to Australia, it’s a bit of an odd thing to say.

I genuinely don’t think immigration is out to cheat migrants. 

Seriously, the number of people who apply for visas alone, or rely on some dodgy MA is why there’s so many refusals. All the criteria for the visa is not on immigrations website, they actually advise potential migrants to use a MARA registered agent who should know the details to ensure the applications are full and complete at the time of lodgement.

Its why immigration should not be relied on for advice, they actually have insurance for the bad advice their phone operators provide. It’s incredibly complex, more so than I think people realise. 

I don’t know if you are trying to migrate to Australia, but don’t bother if you have such a poor opinion of the country.

 

Hello Wondering loud,

I don't know you are an applicant, a secondary applicant, employer, MA or among one of the DIBP staff. You have taken it too personally. I didn't mean to hurt ur feelings about Australia.

It is a bit harsh to listen and accept the reality many other countries are accepting resident,spouse applications and doing the same with a fee of max. $100 or $200 and responding in 6months whereas $6000 is a lot of money with 2 years waiting time and morever rejections with no documents request.

When overseas applicants enter the country they are meant to qualify a English exam with a decent score. So it means they have decent English to study/work in Australian workplace.

Besides providing English results at the time of application CO demands IELTS again ? So they are basically educated with good verbal and written english but just not right for their job. They made the concept of VAC 2 for secondary applicant (only in Australia) just to fetch one more time money from migrants.

Fraud marriages are not only for migration purposes. There are some other reasons as well. It is ofcourse not wise to blindly distribute visas but there are many genuine applicants who are suffering. Paying huge sums of money and suffering due to refusals based on assumptions.

What would you call when an Australian couple intentionally living apart on two different addresses just to receive better payments. They aren't dodgy ? Right ?

Now 10 years old involved in crime are not only in Australia but steps/actions towards it are more important which are at present not in any way to save rest of the children from spoiling. (read some news how these so called kids are nuisance to shopping centres and businesses. Parents are scared to send their children unsupervised 500mts away from their homes. (They discourage other children to play openly and freely)

If you believe the refusals are due to dodgy MA then let me just tell u these dodgy MA's can bring a successful student visa with incomplete documents and n no. of s56 requests and u probably know why i do not want to mention the reason otherwise u will feel a bit harsh again.

DIBP have insurance because they do not believe their own people can actually say/do something over the phone which is not correct or nowhere related. Basically they are not trained and knowledgeable enough to answer the question rather they should just surrender instead of misguiding someone who is already stressed. Incomplete knowledge is very dangerous. 

When my house got robbed an Australian police officer showed me photographs of who robbed my house but their legislation doesn't allow them to forcefully recover my belongings or ask them where they are. Robbers have rights to hire a lawyer and get bail immidiately .The Officer aplogised to me that he couldn't do anything for me and said that Australia is not Australia anymore. It not safe now.

Just a suggestion try spending two weeks in a regional area in a house. You will come to know Australia in two weeks when ur door gets a knock in the middle of the night and person outside needs water or someone peeping through ur curtain during the day. What will u do ? Honestly.... Police won't help u on this as this is not a crime yet.

I do not need your suggestion upon my migration. No offence. In case I become successful in migrating I will definitely try to make Australia a better place.

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