Tricky situation

[Quoll]

Sorry Quoll - I completely disagree.  I agree that the name is offputting but a referral for a Mental Health Plan just gives you some sessions (6-10) with a trained counsellor funded by Medicare.  Looking after your mental health doesn't mean you are nuts, it means you are strong enough to ask for help to deal with something that is troubling her.  Don't let the label put you off.
The OP is dealing with anxiety and a professional is better placed to help her deal through the issues (whatever the outcome) than the untrained people on an internet forum (no disrespect to anybody). 

No, I think this is a family relationship issue rather than a fundamental mental health issue which is why marriage guidance, given the time frame would be a better option. The key here is going to be a joint decision making process and thus both parties need to be in the discussion but I definitely agree that a trained impartial mediator is probably going to be key unless a quick mutual decision can be achieved.

The time for a mental health plan will be down the track if the decision making doesn't go well and there is no successful outcome and survival strategies will need to be in place.

I'm tempted to think, too, that to launch into a mental health plan at this stage before preliminary discussions and negotiated outcomes actually puts the OP at a disadvantage- how easy would it be for her to be labeled as not being able to cope. That has the potential to be disempowerment.

[Scousers1]

On 11 August 2017 at 17:25, WaywardPom said:

Hello everyone.

I have been in Oz with Aussie husband since beginning of November last year. Before this I had been living in Canada since 2014 on WHV's (where I also met husband)

I am however now pregnant (15 weeks) which we was and are very happy about. 

But I'm homesick, and I feel it's past that. I have anxiety and been struggling with chronic insomnia for months which I believe is all connected to the homesickness.  To be honest I felt very unhappy like this the last few months in Canada but I thought that was due to not liking the particular city we had moved to there (Toronto) where beforehand had lived elsewhere in Canada.

In hindsight we probably should have moved to UK first. But that's in hindsight!!

I agreed Australia was the best place to go, I thought too it would be a better quality of life, husband could earn better etc etc

But..but.. now I feel like this and it's all consuming. I know people will think it's hormones. But I think the pregnancy has really made me properly think about the long long term future. I want my parents in my life. I want them to have their grandchild in their life (their first grandchild, even though I'm the youngest of four at nearly 29) and I just want the British familiarity and everything that goes with it.

Obviously husband is not keen at all and I understand that. He asks me what if I change my mind and want back to Aus. But I reply that won't happen as even if end up being unhappy in the UK it won't be more than what I am now. And nothing about here I will miss or regret. And at least I'd have my family/friends around me.

I feel extremely down and in limbo about what to do. We don't have enough money saved to move any time soon. Yet I have the worry that once the baby has arrived husband may refuse to go give it a go in the UK (obviously I don't think he's like that but you never know)

I'm just so sad and feel stuck in limbo and don't know what to do don't know why I'm posting.

I think you need to go back to the UK now. It does not get any easier. The money situation will work its sellf out but you need to feel safe and happy more than anything. Best of luck

[WaywardPom]

Hi I have read all posts and all points of views.

I definitely do not want to go without my husband, I do want us to be a family. We have no relationship issues with each other except this. My husband has said he would give it a go in the future, just a bit down the line when we've got more cash etc. Then in his next sentence he will say ''but what about this or I don't think this or this will work etc'' which puts niggling doubts in my mind as to whether he really does have full intentions of giving it a go.

Also he doesn't really seem to want to talk about it in detail or formulate any real sort of plan.

[MelT]

Perhaps it may be a good option to say you would like to go home to have your baby, then re-evaluate...

This will give you much more freedom to have choices in your life. If you have your baby here and things don't go to plan (referring to your niggling doubts); you would be trapped here regardless....which would be heartbreaking..

My sister-in-law did the same and flew home to have her baby. Given your situation I understand now why she did.


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[Guest]

The thing is, whatever you both may say, either of you could change your mind once moved or once decided on staying. He could say no to moving, you could both move and you decide you don't want to move back. Then where does that leave the other. 

Honestly, pregnancy can send you into overdrive and give you a big case of wanting to nest, be near your loved ones, family and things that are familiar but it doesn't mean that will be forever or that in a year or two you won't feel more able to to cope, happy to move overseas again and so on. But OTOH you could decide you never want to move again.

If you go to the UK on your own to have the baby, it could end your marriage or cause it to become very rocky. It might not, it might see your husband go with you then regardless but it could have serious repercussions and be a disaster for your marriage. 

I think that you had issues before you moved to Aus is a concern as its now built up and you are also now pregnant, in a strange country and struggling. It could be you really do need to address those issues first and foremost, get some help and go from there. 

Did you ever really intend to live away from the UK long term when you left? You say a WHV which doesn't indicate a permanent move, more just a seeing a bit of the world while you are young and able to. Life has of course happened and thrown some major changes your way and perhaps you just were not ready for them nor had thought them through fully, having fallen in love, married and so on, you perhaps don't tend to look for the down sides or the possible negatives to things. But they are there and now causing you problems and worry. Marrying someone from a different country has huge implications on your life and more so when a baby comes along. 

I'm on the fence in many ways the more I think about it as I feel equally for your husband in all this. However, if your mental health is a concern then you really do need to seek some help and see if you can get things back on track to a point where you feel more able to cope. You also really need to see if a move for you both to the UK is something you can agree on and for both of you make yourselves fully informed as to the legalities of the Hague convention and its implications should you move or stay. None of us married and living overseas from our home country want to find ourselves in strife over it but we sometimes do. 

 

 

[VERYSTORMY]

It is important you understand the situation once the baby is born. If the baby is born in Australia, then The Hague convention applies. This means he can refuse to let his child leave Australia until the age of 18. From what you have posted, I suspect he will. 

[WaywardPom]

Thankyou for posts guys I can't express how much I appreciate people in this forum taking the time to respond to a complete strangers problem like this .

No I never considered it a permanent move away when I went to Canada, I ended up extending there longer than I otherwise would have because I met now- husband.

Im not sure if my mental health is a concern? It really is just this whole issue of me being here and homesickness etc that is causing me problems - i don't know, does that make me mental?

I fully understand the implications of the Hague convention, hence why I'am so stressed out now.

It begins to feel like whatever choice I make will be the wrong one and an impossible decision. So sometimes I just want to stick my head in the sand

 

[Quoll]

37 minutes ago, WaywardPom said:

Thankyou for posts guys I can't express how much I appreciate people in this forum taking the time to respond to a complete strangers problem like this .

No I never considered it a permanent move away when I went to Canada, I ended up extending there longer than I otherwise would have because I met now- husband.

Im not sure if my mental health is a concern? It really is just this whole issue of me being here and homesickness etc that is causing me problems - i don't know, does that make me mental?

I fully understand the implications of the Hague convention, hence why I'am so stressed out now.

It begins to feel like whatever choice I make will be the wrong one and an impossible decision. So sometimes I just want to stick my head in the sand

 

No, it does NOT make you mentally ill. There is a condition called exogenous depression which is solved only by the removal of or from the situation. I guess "homesick" could well be another word for it. I knew about it all in theory but never realised just how big an impact it can have on your life and how utterly debilitating it was until I got it. All the survival strategies and therapies in the world don't make it go away but once you remove yourself from the situation it is fixed, like a magic wand. 

Id say that if your decision is to stay then your mental health will deteriorate over time and you will need a whole suitcase of strategies to help you through every day. It's at that point that support from a therapist would be a good move, when you are faced with lifelong entrapment in a place you don't really want to be. Even then however, if you can reframe what is happening to you as "this is the choice I am making, I am a strong woman and I will get through it" you can convince yourself to some extent that you still have the freedom.

The fact that your DH hasn't yet "got it" and how serious this is and what the time frame is, that he's probably doing the usual Aussie male thing of burying his head in the sand and it'll go away, makes it important that you make a move towards Relationships Australia and up the ante. All he has to do is say and do nothing and it'll all be golden for him so he's got the easy bit. You're going to have to take the initiative here - you can make an appointment to see them alone then bring him in. A compromise is always going to be the best outcome but for you to compromise to stay in Australia and have the baby is a very dangerous step if your end goal is to return. 

It is a very difficult situation and you are not Robinson Crusoe, it has happened to many before you.

[Guest]

If you are 'just' homesick then you need to address it, see if you can work through it, be able to embrace life where you are and make a go of it, if that is what you truly want.

However, that you clearly never intended to be gone long term from the UK, had plans to return but changed those because you met your now husband, well, you perhaps need to get your head round those implications and what it means for your life with your husband now.

So often meeting someone when overseas travelling we really don't think long term of what it may truly entail or the sacrifices we may,  no, will have to make or the upset it can cause. One of you, of any couple from different countries is going to be living elsewhere, unless you both agree to go live in a neutral country that you are both happy with. 

I think you possibly have given yourself a lot to cope with and perhaps need to just take some time to take stock, assess your priorities and try to see your way clear in the short term as the long term right now is I think not something you or your husband can have confidence in each other perhaps. Hopefully if you can work on a short term solution then the longer term will fall into place.

You may well need to face up to being in Aus and if so, work on over coming the homesickness or at least being able to put it in a box to enable you to function and get on and hopefully enjoy day to day life. 

I don't know what I would do in this sort of situation as I've never been in it. I may be married to an Aussie but that is where our similarities end. I personally would choose my husband and child over a place or my family in he U.K. but that is me.  We just work things out as they come up and do what we feel is best for us and our child. If that means we move countries or cities then so be it. We support each other and while one of us, our needs/wants may trump the other on occasion in small ways, in terms of the big things, we've always been able to agree eventually  rather than be divided or it being one driving the other. It's not always easy but we knew going in what it meant for us both being from different countries. We ensure we work at it and talk about it as part of our marriage as and when. We don't deny it and if one of us have concerns or are unhappy we work together to resolve whatever comes along. 

Your husband may or may not be in a bit of denial or not wanting to admit he really isn't keen to go or that he would rather be in Aus. He is also perhaps underestimating how pregnancy can effect a woman and cause her to have some serous nesting and family urges. He may of course be aware of all this and not prepared to budge. Only you can know really and you perhaps need to sit him down and lay it out on the table once and for all. But, big but, be prepared to meet him halfway or to give and take. It's a two way street and hopefully if you can both get on the same page you can move forward together. Pregnancy and the first year or so after a baby is born is IMHO some of the toughest time a couple can go through for no end of reasons, so do all you can to know this, not be afraid of it and to work together through it, supporting each other.  

 

[Wa7]

22 hours ago, Wa7 said:

Massive heart to heart with your husband is required, in no uncertain terms let him know how your feeling. 

Have you done this?

Maybe we have different ideas on how to say things,  but he needs to understand the severity of how your feeling, then you may have a clearer idea of his take on it and then you can plan your next step accordingly.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Wa7

[WaywardPom]

Yes I've tried. He gets very defensive and makes it impossible for us to have a sit down rational adult discussion

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, WaywardPom said:

Yes I've tried. He gets very defensive and makes it impossible for us to have a sit down rational adult discussion

I'm guessing that's out of fear and uncertainty as it means he may have to face up to doing something he isn't really wanting to do. 

Before you moved to Aus with him, did you sit down and discuss the move properly together and were you happy to go and give it a try? Did you have a back up plan or talk about the what if of you not being happy? Perhaps both of you underestimated what it may mean and he is perhaps in a bit of denial.

[WaywardPom]

Yes of course we discussed moving here a lot. I was very happy to come here and agreed at the time it sounded the best plan. I was very stressed before the move though and just put it down to nerves.

Yes I won't deny we probably did underestimate what might happen. I never thought I would end up feeling like this and are probably fools in love. All we could focus on at that time was being together and thought that was the bee and end all.

 

[Wa7]

1 hour ago, WaywardPom said:

Yes I've tried. He gets very defensive and makes it impossible for us to have a sit down rational adult discussion

..............unless you wake up one morning and feel that potentially staying in Aus is ok ,to a certain degree " the writings on the wall ". Tough decision.

[Collie]

4 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

It is important you understand the situation once the baby is born. If the baby is born in Australia, then The Hague convention applies. This means he can refuse to let his child leave Australia until the age of 18. From what you have posted, I suspect he will. 

Well that is not true mate and a pretty scare mongering statement.

The Hague convention is a good thing in this case.  If the UK & Australia were NOT signatories, your comment above could apply.  But they are signatories.  The Hague convention is an international agreement dealing with child abduction.  If the OP were to abducate the child and not return from the UK, her husband can look for recovery orders and the UK and Australian systems co-operate.

Because of the Hague convention, if it got that bad, the OP would be able to bring the child to the UK, just that she would need to bring the child back unless the husband agreed to the child moving permanently (and even then, sometimes the courts allow it).

Anyway, that is getting way ahead of the OP's position.  i re-iterate my original advice, go get professional help.  A MHP means that Medicare pay for it, it is all just counselling and seeking counselling can not be used against you.  The OP has said that she suffers from anxiety, pregnancy exasberates anxiety.  Talk to a professional and use the professional to facilitate the conversation with your husband.

 

[Nemesis]

12 minutes ago, Collie said:

Well that is not true mate and a pretty scare mongering statement.

The Hague convention is a good thing in this case.  If the UK & Australia were NOT signatories, your comment above could apply.  But they are signatories.  The Hague convention is an international agreement dealing with child abduction.  If the OP were to abducate the child and not return from the UK, her husband can look for recovery orders and the UK and Australian systems co-operate.

Because of the Hague convention, if it got that bad, the OP would be able to bring the child to the UK, just that she would need to bring the child back unless the husband agreed to the child moving permanently (and even then, sometimes the courts allow it).

Anyway, that is getting way ahead of the OP's position.  i re-iterate my original advice, go get professional help.  A MHP means that Medicare pay for it, it is all just counselling and seeking counselling can not be used against you.  The OP has said that she suffers from anxiety, pregnancy exasberates anxiety.  Talk to a professional and use the professional to facilitate the conversation with your husband.

 

The way I understood it though, if the father refuses to sign for the child to have a passport, and gets a court order saying he does not agree to the child going on holiday because he believes the mother may not bring the child back, then the child can't leave oz until he/she is an adult. And if the marriage breaks up at a later date and the father refuses permission, then the mother cannot take the chld home to the UK.

Its the same laws but in reverse from the UK to Oz cases we see on here where a parent cannot emigrate because an ex-partner refuses permission for the child to leave.

[Quoll]

The difference between Australia and Britain with respect to the Family Court is that the Aus court rarely grants permission for a child to leave if even the most drop kick of parents say they can't go. The British court appears more even handed and has allowed families to emigrate to Australia for example even when the other parent has objected. In fact I don't know that we have heard of one case where they have stopped a child from leaving but the converse is unfortunately true.

[Collie]

16 hours ago, Nemesis said:

The way I understood it though, if the father refuses to sign for the child to have a passport, and gets a court order saying he does not agree to the child going on holiday because he believes the mother may not bring the child back, then the child can't leave oz until he/she is an adult. And if the marriage breaks up at a later date and the father refuses permission, then the mother cannot take the chld home to the UK.

Its the same laws but in reverse from the UK to Oz cases we see on here where a parent cannot emigrate because an ex-partner refuses permission for the child to leave.

No, that is not how it works.

The Hague convention is primarily to do with international co-operation in the case of Child Abduction, recognising and enforcing the the court orders of another jurisdiction.

There was quite a famous case a few years back where the family were living in Italy (Australian mother, Italian father), the mother brought the twin girls (think they were about 13) "on holiday" to Brisbane and then refused to return.  The father sought and was granted a recovery order.  The AFP removed the girls from the mother's care and returned them to their father. One of the TV channels did a follow up story on them last year.  the 2 girls are 18/19 now and love their lives in Italy.  Not sure if they have a relationship with their mother.

If one parent refuses to sign a passport or allow reasonable international travel, the court can overrule them.  They are more likely to do this when the destination is a signatory to the Hague convention.  I saw this happen last year.  15 year old boy, living with the father.  Didn't talk to the mother (not sure of the history) and the court were trying to help repair the relationship with counselling etc..  Father's family were going on a cruise (grandmother's birthday or something and all the extended paternal family were going), Australia to Australia but via some of the south pacific islands.  Mother refused to consent to the travel or sign the passport application.  Judge managed to talk sense into her (stop her further alienating herself to her son) but did threaten to overrule her and grant an order to the father to get a passport without the mother's consent. 

Anyway, this is little off topic for the OP.  Just correcting erroneous information that would only further add to her anxiety.  

[Yelverton]

You haven't been in Australia for very long and as other people have said on this forum before, it does often take a long time to settle and make friends (which obviously helps ease the homesickness). I had my first baby here in Australia with no support from family (who are all in the UK) and my husband works long hours, evenings and weekends but what made the situation much better for me was the mothers group that the hospital hooked me up with. These other new Mums supported and helped me with the stress of becoming a first time Mum on the other side of the world from my family and have become life long friends. I found that I suddenly had a ready made group of friends all with babies the same age as mine and it certainly made my life happier and helped with missing people from the UK.

Just another view point - may not necessarily help you

[WaywardPom]

On another note regarding my husband's claim to a British passport..

His parents never renounced British citizenship but they no longer hold British passports and haven't for many years. Does this mean husband cannot claim passport? Apparently he needs to supply both parents passport numbers as part of the passport application.

I've looked and looked online but can't seem to find the answer to this?

[starlight7]

The mothers' groups can be enormously supportive and terrific backup for new mums. Also some of the pre natal groups can be good, too. At your stage of pregnancy you may not yet be in touch with anything like these but they are certainly worth following up. Chances are you won't be the only migrant, either and , as they say, a problem shared may be a problem halved.


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[Guest]

38 minutes ago, WaywardPom said:

On another note regarding my husband's claim to a British passport..

His parents never renounced British citizenship but they no longer hold British passports and haven't for many years. Does this mean husband cannot claim passport? Apparently he needs to supply both parents passport numbers as part of the passport application.

I've looked and looked online but can't seem to find the answer to this?

If they long ago stopped renewing their passports then I would expect that UK immigration have guidelines for this. Have you read the gov website on it all. Its very wordy and can be a bit much to get your head round in one go but you can make sense of it in the end usually

If not, email and enquire and see what comes back. Don't take it as gospel but it should at least give you a starting point and you can go from there. 

 

[bristolman]

7 hours ago, WaywardPom said:

On another note regarding my husband's claim to a British passport..

His parents never renounced British citizenship but they no longer hold British passports and haven't for many years. Does this mean husband cannot claim passport? Apparently he needs to supply both parents passport numbers as part of the passport application.

I've looked and looked online but can't seem to find the answer to this?

No, his parents right to citizenship is not reliant on them holding a passport so it won't affect your husbands position. 

[Parley]

17 hours ago, snifter said:

If they long ago stopped renewing their passports then I would expect that UK immigration have guidelines for this. Have you read the gov website on it all. Its very wordy and can be a bit much to get your head round in one go but you can make sense of it in the end usually

If not, email and enquire and see what comes back. Don't take it as gospel but it should at least give you a starting point and you can go from there. 

 

A passport is just a travel document.

It has no impact on anyone's citizenship whether their passport has expired or if they have never even had a passport.

If his paren'ts are Britich Citizens that is all that matters.

[ssiri]

There has been much considered advise on here. It's a tricky situation. As some other posters have suggested - I'd suggest seeking help to first address your home-sickness and anxiety.

 

Be it a group of mums to be , professional assistance or both.

 

Going back to the UK may not address all the issues you hope it may do. When did you leave the UK?

 

Life has been difficult for a lot of people there for some time, and isn't going to get easy in the near future with The coming changes to EU membership.

 

You may find building the support networks here may be helpful and also, don't feel the need to give into extended family pressure if it is being applied (explicitly or implicitly). Siblings and parents could support you by visiting you here, for a part of your pregnancy or after the birth - if they wanted to.

 

 

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