Keith and Linda Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 12 hours ago, Nemesis said: Yes. The oz state pension is means tested, so getting a full UK pension usually means you qualify for nothing from the Australian state pension. I did hear, but not sure if it is true, but the Aus gov checks up on whether you are and even should be claiming your UK pension, no matter how small as it would save the Aus Gov $m's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew from Vista Financial Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 On 27/09/2017 at 16:25, Paul1Perth said: If you qualify for a UK pension does that offset any pension you would get from Aus? I can't see that you would be able to get both. On 27/09/2017 at 20:25, Nemesis said: Yes. The oz state pension is means tested, so getting a full UK pension usually means you qualify for nothing from the Australian state pension. Hello A) It is possible to receive both. B) Not necessarily, it completely comes down to individual circumstances, you are right in that the OZ Age Pension is means tested however it is tested under both an income and an assets test and whichever gives the lower result is the amount received. As an example of this a person could have assets over the max threshold and therefore would not be eligible to receive any OZ Age Pension so the UK State Pension in that case has no impact whatsoever on any OZ benefits (whilst they have those assets anyway). Also even if a person/couple are receiving the full State Pension they could still receive a very generous amount from the OZ Age Pension, as an example of this ( I have literally just run this scenario on my software to be able to demonstrate): A couple with combined assets of $300,000 (excluding the home) and both receiving the full UK State Pension currently around $28,000 annually and no other income could qualify for around $25,000 from the OZ Age Pension. There are many other scenarios that could occur of course but typically I would not discount topping up the UK State Pension on the basis of it losing/reducing the OZ Age Pension IF someone is able to top up at class 2 rates, Hope this helps. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Andrew from Vista Financial said: Hello A) It is possible to receive both. B) Not necessarily, it completely comes down to individual circumstances, you are right in that the OZ Age Pension is means tested however it is tested under both an income and an assets test and whichever gives the lower result is the amount received. As an example of this a person could have assets over the max threshold and therefore would not be eligible to receive any OZ Age Pension so the UK State Pension in that case has no impact whatsoever on any OZ benefits (whilst they have those assets anyway). Also even if a person/couple are receiving the full State Pension they could still receive a very generous amount from the OZ Age Pension, as an example of this ( I have literally just run this scenario on my software to be able to demonstrate): A couple with combined assets of $300,000 (excluding the home) and both receiving the full UK State Pension currently around $28,000 annually and no other income could qualify for around $25,000 from the OZ Age Pension. There are many other scenarios that could occur of course but typically I would not discount topping up the UK State Pension on the basis of it losing/reducing the OZ Age Pension IF someone is able to top up at class 2 rates, Hope this helps. Andy What OZ age pensiom would they get if they hadn't bothered with the UK one and used the money saved to pay off their mortgage instead? If it works out to be about the same then it's still not worth chasing the UK one. If I was richer and had lots of assets that would prevent us getting the AUS pension then it's probably worth paying up the full stamp to get the UK pension. Which is presumably not means tested. In my opinion people who have enough assets to not qualify for an AUS pension shouldn't have access to the UK one. They are just being greedy but I'm sure there are plenty of well off people that will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 52 minutes ago, Paul1Perth said: What OZ age pensiom would they get if they hadn't bothered with the UK one and used the money saved to pay off their mortgage instead? If it works out to be about the same then it's still not worth chasing the UK one. If I was richer and had lots of assets that would prevent us getting the AUS pension then it's probably worth paying up the full stamp to get the UK pension. Which is presumably not means tested. In my opinion people who have enough assets to not qualify for an AUS pension shouldn't have access to the UK one. They are just being greedy but I'm sure there are plenty of well off people that will. Why shouldn't they? The ozzie one is means tested, the UK one is not.If people have paid their NI for years in order to get their state pension why should they not get it just because of the Oz one having different rules? Its bad enough that the uk pension is frozen for oz residents,never mind means testing it too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Nemesis said: Why shouldn't they? The ozzie one is means tested, the UK one is not.If people have paid their NI for years in order to get their state pension why should they not get it just because of the Oz one having different rules? Its bad enough that the uk pension is frozen for oz residents,never mind means testing it too. I'm talking about fairly well off people here that have enough assets to not qualify for an Aus pension. To accept money from the UK, which is affecting the ability to provide a reasonable pension for UK retirees who've stayed there and a lot who are struggling financially just doesn't seem right to me. Me and the wife have paid a lot of NI contributions over the years but when we retire we won't be loaded and will be more than happy to accept what's due to us. If we had lots of assets though and spare cash to pay up the stamp to get a full UK pension that just doesn't seem right. I'm sure there are plenty of rich folk that would take it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Paul1Perth said: I'm talking about fairly well off people here that have enough assets to not qualify for an Aus pension. To accept money from the UK, which is affecting the ability to provide a reasonable pension for UK retirees who've stayed there and a lot who are struggling financially just doesn't seem right to me. Me and the wife have paid a lot of NI contributions over the years but when we retire we won't be loaded and will be more than happy to accept what's due to us. If we had lots of assets though and spare cash to pay up the stamp to get a full UK pension that just doesn't seem right. I'm sure there are plenty of rich folk that would take it though. But why just means test expats? If you are going to bring in means testing it should be across the board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Nemesis said: But why just means test expats? If you are going to bring in means testing it should be across the board. Fully agree that all the rules should be applied equally across the board - but the reason expat get a bad deal is because they are much more expensive to pay. A large proportion of the pensions paid in the UK make their way back to the UK government - in the VAT collected when pensions spend it, in the taxes paid by the companies they buy from, in the PAYG and NI on the wages paid by those companies and in the economic growth you get from having money circulating. In contrast most of the money paid to expat pensioners leaves the UK economy and little or none of it gets back to the UK treasury. It's therefore seen as being a wasteful expenditure. Edited October 10, 2017 by Ken 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1Perth Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 17 hours ago, Nemesis said: But why just means test expats? If you are going to bring in means testing it should be across the board. The aus pension is means tested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbpom Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 I am under the impression that there was an agreement between UK and Australia under which years spent living in Australia could be claimed as paid NI years. I'm not expressing this well. The question (given that I'm returning to the UK next year) is what years are covered by this agreement and what evidence do I need to provide upon return? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyNook Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Years spent in Australia up to 5th April 2001 can be counted towards your paid NI years. https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/international-social-security-agreements/termination-of-the-social-security-agreement-with-the-united-kingdom-uk-1-march-2001/termination-of-the-social-security-agreement-with-the-uk-information-for-prospective-migrants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melbpom Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Thank you NickyNook for your reply, very useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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