Should we move to UK

[wooddar]

HI.

Hoping for some thoughts.  

Background

My wife (Australian), Daughter and I (47 years young) have been living in Australia for 5 years.  I have family,  3 daughters (11, 14 and 15 now at secondary school) from my ex wife in the UK.  We Skype my daughters and take them on 3 week holiday in Europe once a year to keep up relationships (especially with their half sister).We had planned to return to UK when I received citizenship but  I now have to wait another 3 years for my Australian citizenship having missed out by one day when they changed the rules. Our daughter in Australia is due to go to School in Australia January 2018 and UK September 2017.  We love weather and outdoors. 

Options

1. Leave now to UK to ( I would need to return from 2021 every year to keep my Perm residency)

2. Leave in April (This will give me 10 years perm residency) and buy property to rent out before we go. 

3. Stay here and bring girls to Australia every other year for holiday. Buy property in Australia.  My wife has family in Perth (houses are cheap, 4 bedroom vs 1 bed flat in Sydney and jobs not so good)

4. Return to UK and return to Australia when girls go to university. 

Hope this makes sense.

Would be really interested if others have had the same decision to make and what they decided and why.

Thanks again in advance.

 

Anon

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by wooddar

[katinoz]

Same predicament here although diff set of circumstances. 2 kids under 3, been in Syd for 12 years! Practically grew up here! Despite awesome jobs we can't buy in Sydney which leaves us no option to move far away which in turn would leave us starting again! Therefore, why not move back to the uk? Cheaper housing and FAMILY! Whatever way we've looked at it, the blue skies, great coffee and awesome lifestyle just doesn't win over the family life the kids, and us are missing out on. We have an investment property here in Oz and also citizenship. That makes it all a little bit more comfortable! I think we'll be happy as a family wherever we make our home [emoji4] Hoping to head back by September next year!


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[Guest]

I am not sure your permanent residency works like that re retuning every year and then going again. Once your travel part of your PR lapses then you need an RRV. And they are not indefinite nor do they keep handing them out year after year if you don't show any intention to actually reside in Aus. 

The leave in April and then have 10 years PR am not sure I understand.

TBH none of your options really work for me but that is me. Its not about what I want, its what you and your family want for the future, short and longer term. 

You can make all the plans in the world and find they unravel once you've made a move as time moves on. Some for the better of course, if its what you want, but some perhaps not. 

Your daughters are getting older and will soon be off living their lives. If you moved to the UK would you be living close by enough to see them often? Is it a part of the UK you would like to live and work for a number of years? 

If you remain in Aus does it have to be Sydney or Perth? Its a vast country and if you are happy in Aus and wanted to you could explore other options in terms of somewhere cheaper to live with decent job prospects. Doesn't have to be based near a big city. The eastern coast is more densely populated and I would hope there could be other options along there somewhere or another city. 

Also can you even move to the UK currently based on the UK partner visa rules and regs and the costs etc involved in this? It requires a fair amount of money or a job secured. The visa isn't anything like the Aus partner visa and is much more constrictive to many who want to take their partners to the UK. Many simply cannot return with their partners and so have to remain living elsewhere in the world. 

[wooddar]

Thank you for taking time to reply.  

I am not sure your permanent residency works like that re retuning every year and then going again. Once your travel part of your PR lapses then you need an RRV. And they are not indefinite nor do they keep handing them out year after year if you don't show any intention to actually reside in Aus.  I would need to complete right to return yes.  Immi agent says if my wife has family that is enough and I would need to return for at least 1 day (cost $300 for right for return extension)

The leave in April and then have 10 years PR am not sure I understand.  By April 2018 I will have accrued enough time in Australia to extend my visa for another 5 years from 2021 when my current Perm visa expires. 

TBH none of your options really work for me but that is me. Its not about what I want, its what you and your family want for the future, short and longer term. What option would you create? 

You can make all the plans in the world and find they unravel once you've made a move as time moves on. Some for the better of course, if its what you want, but some perhaps not. 

Your daughters are getting older and will soon be off living their lives. If you moved to the UK would you be living close by enough to see them often? Is it a part of the UK you would like to live and work for a number of years?  We could live close.  We would meet atleast once a month or more. 

If you remain in Aus does it have to be Sydney or Perth? Its a vast country and if you are happy in Aus and wanted to you could explore other options in terms of somewhere cheaper to live with decent job prospects. Doesn't have to be based near a big city. The eastern coast is more densely populated and I would hope there could be other options along there somewhere or another city.  Preference is Perth due to family and cost but Jobs are fewer. 

Also can you even move to the UK currently based on the UK partner visa rules and regs and the costs etc involved in this? It requires a fair amount of money or a job secured. The visa isn't anything like the Aus partner visa and is much more constrictive to many who want to take their partners to the UK. Many simply cannot return with their partners and so have to remain living elsewhere in the world. My wife is UK and Australian citizen .  

 

Thanks again for your thoughts 

DW

[starlight7]

No one can really tell you what to do but I do have a strong sense that you will miss Australia terribly when you leave,especially going into a British winter. Hard to keep two lives going though and in the long run I think you must choose. As you get older it becomes harder to shuttle between one country and another- the old body and mind will let you know!


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[Collie]

IMO Snifter's post is on the money.

It's a tough one mate.

When are you eligible for citizenship?  You say that you have been here 5 years but I summise only 1 as a PR. You could try applying for citizenship now if you are eligible under the old rules.  AFAIK the new rules have not passed parliment yet.  For $280 it is worth the gamble.  A friend of mine has done this based on advice from a good agent.  Worst case you lose $280, best case the legislation gets amended to include grandfathering clauses.  It will take 6-12 months anyway.

On point 1, you can get a RRV when the travel portion of your PR expires.  They can vary in length of 1 to 5 years and are not guranteed, you need to show that you intend to plan to move permanently to Australia.

So I think you are saying that your 1st 5 years as a PR are up in 2021 and then you hope to get another 5 years (you may only get 1 or none).  They will not keep giving you RRVs if you are not living in Australia.  At some point it becomes use it or lose it.

2 of your girls in the UK will be adults by 2021 and may even look to travel or move over here for a while.  They are teenagers now so probably spend more time with friends than family.  It sounds like you have good relationships with them.

IMO - you make your life here as best you can.  Keep skyping/phoning/texting as much as you can, it's not the same but helps (your option 3).  Property in Perth is cheaper (and still dropping) but work is very hard to find and rates have dropped big time.  What do you do for a living? 

Bring them over when you can, or you travel over when you can.  I know that it's expensive bringing the whole family so maybe you do a trip by yourself sometimes, even if it''s only for a week/10 days.  Good for them to have their Dad to themselves for a bit anyway, particulalry for girls and it sounds like they are a bit older than your other 2.

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

 

 

[wooddar]

54 minutes ago, Collie said:

IMO Snifter's post is on the money.

 

Thanks for the note.  

I applied for citizenship 1 day after they changed rules.  Sadly I could not apply earlier as their system was down otherwise i would have beaten the deadline.... !

I am an accountant/Transformation/Assurance professional.  

Edited July 21, 2017 by wooddar

[ScottieGirl]

The way you have written it sounds like ultimately you want to live In Aus but spend the next few years in the UK to be with your older daughters. I think you are over thinking the visa options as the rules change frequently, who can say what they will be in 5 or 10 years time? Look at it as you are either a citizen and can come and go or you have PR but you can only live outside Aus for 3 to 4 years then have to return if you want to come back. 

Then the question becomes how easy would it be to get a job in the UK and then again when you return.  The work place is ageist in both countries so it may take a while and you may have to take a less senior role which means less money. Is that financially viable for you?   Decide long term do you want to be in Aus or the UK  then plan from there.

[VERYSTORMY]

I am confused on your eligibility for Australian citizenship.

If you have held a permanent visa in Australia for 4 years, then you are entitled to apply for citizenship now.

Given you are not over torn though on the visa front - as you say, you would get an RRV at worst, then it will come down to finances. International moves are never cheap. But, if you have the cash, then I would say why not.

 

[Collie]

2 hours ago, wooddar said:

Thanks for the note.  

I applied for citizenship 1 day after they changed rules.  Sadly I could not apply earlier as their system was down otherwise i would have beaten the deadline.... !

I am an accountant/Transformation/Assurance professional.  

Ah right.  Well best of luck.  Hopefully common sense prevails and they take out the retrospective part of it.  Doesn't affect me but very unfair to change the goalposts on people mid game.  Should be only for people granted PR after 20 April 2017.

I'm in your game too (CIMA & CPA) and moved from Sydney to Perth earlier this year.  It is VERY competitive for work and rates have dropped significantly (think 25% - 40% less than Sydney) so you would want to think long and hard before moving over right now.  It is a boom and bust town and hopefully it is near the bottom.  If it is a long term plan - try and get some experience in Resources, Health care/Aged Care, University or Agribusiness sectors.  It will stand to you.

It is very much a who you know town, happy to share experiences via PM if you like

[jess6]

14 hours ago, VERYSTORMY said:

I am confused on your eligibility for Australian citizenship.

If you have held a permanent visa in Australia for 4 years, then you are entitled to apply for citizenship now.

Given you are not over torn though on the visa front - as you say, you would get an RRV at worst, then it will come down to finances. International moves are never cheap. But, if you have the cash, then I would say why not.

 

@wooddar

it looks like Verystormy has a great point here. How long have you been a Permanent Resident?

Also if you missed the application submission by a day but were eligible - have you thought of reaching out to your local MP?

You obviously want to live in Australia long term and the reason to return to the UK is related to your three daughters. Australia is a familly driven country, I'd be surprised to see the department not take your case into account - especially if you have been locked out because of the website outage.

I would not look at the situation from a financial perspective, I would look at it from an emotional perspective.

What do you want? How do you feel about it? What do your daughters want? How do they feel about you being so far with a new family?

They are teenagers sure. They might not see you super often when you are back in the UK because they might prefer spending time with their friends - although some teens are more family driven than friends driven...

However moving back to the UK for them is a wonderful proof of love. That is very likely to have very good impact on them and their future life, no matter what.

[wooddar]

Thanks. I have been perm resident  for 1yr and a bit years Having been on 457 visa for 4 years. I was eligible per Immigration on the 16april 2017 and commenced my application online on 16th submitting and paying fee on 21st April delayed due to Immigration systems issue.  Hope that explains. Kind regards 

[calNgary]

I think you should hang out and gain citizenship before you do anything,i think it would be your safest option and leave you free to move as and when you want, back and forth in the future.

 

Cal x

[jess6]

12 hours ago, wooddar said:

Thanks. I have been perm resident  for 1yr and a bit years Having been on 457 visa for 4 years. I was eligible per Immigration on the 16april 2017 and commenced my application online on 16th submitting and paying fee on 21st April delayed due to Immigration systems issue.  Hope that explains. Kind regards 

Your wife and yourself should reach out to your local MP to plaid your case. Sometimes in life we have to rely on others help. At least you would have tried everything you can. If it does not work, you need to take some time for yourself to decide what is most important to you without listening to anybody else.

I might be a little too optimistic but considering your wife is Australian, I do not think you'd struggle too much to get back to Australia later on if you were to decide to move to the UK.

There is no right or wrong decision really but people here might all have a different opinion on your situation. On top of that, we do not know you and your family.

I understand that you would like to have all your daughters close to you. Will the back and forth be good for your youngest one though? Will it allow her to build friendships? My gut feeling is that if you get back to the UK, you may decide to stay there because your yougest girl will start to socialize there, your wife and yourself will build a new life there as well.

If I were you I would ask myself how these moves will affect me and my family emotionally:

1) How my youngest daughter will experience the moves.

2) How my oldest daughters will benefit from being closer to me.

3) What I want the most in life and how these moves will affect my couple.

I don't know about other people, but personally, in my life, I have never been able to have it all and I have never been able to please everyone either.

That caused me a lot of emotions both positive and negative but so is life. It hurts sometimes but that's character building. That what makes us all unique.

Good luck!

[wooddar]

We are still here.  I have citizenship and organised Mortgage.     Just now trying to work out next steps.  Buy here and return to UK (rentals are low so it would be tight) and rent in UK and then return in 5-10 years or continue to travel back once a year.    let's see.    

[wooddar]

On 22/07/2017 at 19:59, calNgary said:

I think you should hang out and gain citizenship before you do anything,i think it would be your safest option and leave you free to move as and when you want, back and forth in the future.

 

Cal x

We are still here.  I have citizenship and organised Mortgage.     Just now trying to work out next steps.  Buy here and return to UK (rentals are low so it would be tight) and rent in UK and then return in 5-10 years or continue to travel back once a year.    let's see.    

[VERYSTORMY]

17 hours ago, wooddar said:

We are still here.  I have citizenship and organised Mortgage.     Just now trying to work out next steps.  Buy here and return to UK (rentals are low so it would be tight) and rent in UK and then return in 5-10 years or continue to travel back once a year.    let's see.    

Why would you travel back every year? 

[Paul1Perth]

On Friday, July 21, 2017 at 11:26, katinoz said:

Same predicament here although diff set of circumstances. 2 kids under 3, been in Syd for 12 years! Practically grew up here! Despite awesome jobs we can't buy in Sydney which leaves us no option to move far away which in turn would leave us starting again! Therefore, why not move back to the uk? Cheaper housing and FAMILY! Whatever way we've looked at it, the blue skies, great coffee and awesome lifestyle just doesn't win over the family life the kids, and us are missing out on. We have an investment property here in Oz and also citizenship. That makes it all a little bit more comfortable! I think we'll be happy as a family wherever we make our home Hoping to head back by September next year!


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You have an investment property but reckon you can't afford to stay?

[Paul1Perth]

20 hours ago, wooddar said:

We are still here.  I have citizenship and organised Mortgage.     Just now trying to work out next steps.  Buy here and return to UK (rentals are low so it would be tight) and rent in UK and then return in 5-10 years or continue to travel back once a year.    let's see.    

Mate you are in a predicament. Kids grow up and move around themselves these days. It's a tough call but I couldn't do the travel and not have a life of my own. You can try and please everyone too much.

[rachel smith]

hi there,

A tad confused re being a Permanent Resident. I have lived in Oz for 40 years and have never applied for citizenship. I can leave the country for up to five years and if I wish to continue keeping my PR I need to return to update my PR status. Why does your husband need to return each year?