Citizenship Eligibility

[DCC]

My wife and I traveled in Australia in 2006 and loved it, so we decided to apply to become Permanent Residents.  We received PR in Oct 2011.  We activated our Permanent Residency in Sept 2012.  We have been living in Sydney since this time.  In September 2016 we became eligible to apply for citizenship.  Due to various reasons it was one of those things that we didn't get round to doing and was on our 'to do' list for 2017, we'd banked the 4 years so happy days.  

On 18th March we flew to Bali for 8 nights.  When we checked into the flight there was a delay with one of out passports, we weren't told exactly what but that all was sorted with border control and we were eventually checked in.  Next we came to departure immigration, again there was a problem and we had to go to one of the desks behind the immigration counters and one of the officers reviewed our passports and again let us through, but without giving us an explanation of what the issue had been.  If we had known at this point that we would no longer be able to apply for citizenship if we left the country then we would never gone.

We were due to fly back to Australia on 26/03/2017 however our flights got cancelled but we eventually flew out on 27/03/2017, landing in Sydney on 28/03/2017. We were out of the country for 10 days in total.  When we landed in Sydney we got to immigration and again were stopped.  Finally one of the officers explained that our Permanent Residency Visa had expired and that we no longer had a valid visa on which to enter Australia.  This panicked both of us as we are not in the habit of trying to enter countries without the correct visas in place. The officer arranged for us all to have a temporary border visa assigned. The officer advised us that provided we apply for the Resident Return Visa within 30 days (this is something we should've done before leaving the country) of the original departure we would still be classed as Permanent Residents and this wouldn't affect our 4 years citizenship eligibility and we would not be unlawfully in the country. 

We completed our resident return visa applications and received it on 02/04/2017.  We commenced our citizenship application in April, however had issues with the Eligibility Calculator page, we tried to get in touch with the 'immi' helpline number on a number of occasions however the queue was unbelievably long.  Finally we got through (15th May) and were in a queue for 2 hours to query the issue around the eligibility calculator.   We found out was that we are no longer eligible for citizenship because we had a lapse in our residency visa status from when we left the country on 18/03/2017 to when we entered on 28/03/2017 and subsequently till we received our Resident Return visa - a total gap of 15 days - devastating news and we are were and are understandably very upset about this.  We decided to get a 2nd opinion and went to a Migration Agency, who after investigating this also advised us of the same.  

What has made this situation worse is that had we submitted the citizenship application before the 20/04/2017 then we would been told the same information however we would've needed to hold the PR visa for only a further 12 months from the new start date and then we would be eligible and could look to apply for citizenship in 2018 which we would've accepted, however we didn't.  We have now received the worse possible news that we have to start all over again and accrue the full 4 years, taking us to 2021 before we can apply for citizenship even though we've been Permanent residents since 2012. We are totally devastated at this outcome.  We have made a mistake, we are human and dropped the ball on this and are now gutted that our goal to be Australia citizens is as far away as when we arrived nearly 5 years ago. All because of a 15 day lapse in the 2 Permanent Visa Statuses 

We've made a mistake and it feels like the new rules the Australian Government is introducing is making us pay a lengthy punishment by having to start all over again.  The fact that the travel element of the PR visa expires is a technical detail that we through ignorance weren't aware of and were not made aware of by anyone at immigration/border control when we left on 18/03/2017.  Had we known the implications of leaving the country I can tell you right now my family and I would never have set foot out of this country until we had the correct visa in place to ensure that we re-entered the country correctly. Our passports have been renewed in the last 5 years also and so the visa is no longer visible as it is held electronically. 

I understand the Australian Government wishes to make the citizenship process more stringent and ensure that anyone who wishes to become citizens are fully integrated and committed to the country.  I think we have proved we are.  We have not been resident in any other country other than Australia since we emigrated  in 2012, we are very happy and settled, however this situation has left us with us with a very negative view of the process.  To fall foul of what our goal was and is at the very last moment is absolutely gutting for us all.

We are writing to the Immigration MP to make him aware of this situation that could affect many other Permanent Residents who will fall foul of this and will also speak with our local MP. Does anyone have any advice or suggestions as to where we can go next with this?  I'm going to speak with an immigration lawyer but any other advice would be gratefully received.  Sorry its such a long winded post!

[Parley]

Are there any real disadvantages to you in continuing to live here as a PR ?

[DCC]

Having citizenship wouldn't affect how we lived however it does it give us security.  My father back in the UK is of ill health.  My fear is that we have to go back for a period of time and having the citizenship would allow us to go and know that we can come back without the fear of immigration policy changing. 

Also, currently we don't have a voice, we'd like to be able to vote and have a say in how this country is being run.

[Collie]

 

Thats sounds very strange.  

In the past when you have been out of the country (on holidays etc) they just tack it on at the end.  When I did mine (2006), it was 2 years as a PR and they added a few weeks on as I had been to NZ and somewhere else at the time.

Perhaps some of the agents on here can clarify.  It can't be that you have to live here for 4 years as a PR without ever leaving the country.  Could be worth some sort of appeal.

 

[MaggieMay24]

2 hours ago, Collie said:

 

Thats sounds very strange.  

In the past when you have been out of the country (on holidays etc) they just tack it on at the end.  When I did mine (2006), it was 2 years as a PR and they added a few weeks on as I had been to NZ and somewhere else at the time.

Perhaps some of the agents on here can clarify.  It can't be that you have to live here for 4 years as a PR without ever leaving the country.  Could be worth some sort of appeal.

 

You don't need to add time outside Australia to the end of the residency period, you're allowed to be outside Australia for up to 12 months during the 4 years prior to applying for citizenship, as long as no more than 3 months of it is during the final year.  I've not heard of this before, but it seems the issue for the OP is that they didn't have any residency status while they were in Bali because the travel rights on their PR visa had lapsed and they didn't have an RRV in order to return.  So I guess technically, they were not considered a resident of Australia so the clock resets for them.  AFAIK, a border visa is generally issued when you don't have legal rights to return to the country but they allow you in for a short period (e.g. 30 days) to sort out your situation.

[path2aus]

I am really sorry for what happened to you. I have stayed for 14 years overseas and ignorance is never accepted as a valid excuse for immigration purposes. One thing you always make sure and check when you leave a country is to make sure that you can get back in. Being an Immigrant in the US for 14 years, that is programmed hard in my head. I hope you can sort out something though. 

[DCC]

Yeah, I get that ignorance is no excuse.  But also at no point when we left Australia did anyone mention this and there were clearly issues with our passports as something was flagged on our passports at check in and at departure immigration yet not one person said anything, plus we've renewed out UK passports over the last 5 years and paper evidence of the visa is no longer in the passport as it's held electronically.  

Like I said there would be no way we'd have got on that plane had we known the implications. I understand that we've been ignorant and had a lapse. Had the rules not changed on 20th April then we'd have been told we had to wait an extra year to be able to apply for citizenship which although not ideal is certainly more palatable.  It seems incredibly harsh to hit us with another 4 years given during the lapse in visa (15 days!!) we weren't actually resident in any other country than Oz.  One size does not fit all!

[NicF]

15 hours ago, DCC said:

Yeah, I get that ignorance is no excuse.  But also at no point when we left Australia did anyone mention this and there were clearly issues with our passports as something was flagged on our passports at check in and at departure immigration yet not one person said anything, plus we've renewed out UK passports over the last 5 years and paper evidence of the visa is no longer in the passport as it's held electronically.  

Like I said there would be no way we'd have got on that plane had we known the implications. I understand that we've been ignorant and had a lapse. Had the rules not changed on 20th April then we'd have been told we had to wait an extra year to be able to apply for citizenship which although not ideal is certainly more palatable.  It seems incredibly harsh to hit us with another 4 years given during the lapse in visa (15 days!!) we weren't actually resident in any other country than Oz.  One size does not fit all!

The new rules make no difference to your situation.  When you left Australia you effectively had no valid visa meaning that you reset the living in Australia clock to zero.  While I agree with you that it is harsh the rules are the rules and they don't allow for any flexibility in such circumstances.  There may be a way of appealing to the minister but I wouldn't know if there is or how to go about it.  You might want to consult a MARA agent to see if they are able to help at all.

[DCC]

We are sending an email to the immigration MP and our local MP as I think there will be other Permanent Residents who will fall foul of this.  I don't want anyone to let us off, we've dropped the ball and that's fair enough.  But I do feel that having only had a 15 day gap that restarting at 0 years is very harsh.  We were still paying rent, bills, taxes etc whilst on the holiday. This rule is surely intended to address those who do leave Australia to live and work as a resident in another country.