Changes to pathway to Citizenship

[whtzau]

4 hours ago, Roberta2 said:

 

Please don't be deluded about the process. It's common for a government to indicate a date by which changes will be put into effect.  How could it be otherwise?  If they said they were going to make changes effective from two months in advance, there would be an avalanche of applications.  The effective date is 20 April.  Labor has shown no inclination that I have seen to oppose them.  To the contrary, both major parties are terrified of One Nation, which wants to end ALL immigration.  (True, this is a loony policy.  True but irrelevant.)  Therefore the Senate doesn't matter (because it only matters when Labor opposes the government) and there is no doubt this will become law.

 

Therefore the Senate doesn't matter (because it only matters when Labor opposes the government) and there is no doubt this will become law.  --> why are you so sure ?

[wombatinabox]

I think what the other dude is getting it is Well look at it, do you see the media caring about this issue? Where is the barrage of media coverage? Do you see Labor even talking about this?

Unfortunately Labor has been a weak opposition for the past several years everyone knows that and media pretty much gave up chasing the whole immigration narrative. In comparison to the states, Look at what the democrats and media did to his travel ban, they got it thrown out. 

All signs point this is guaranteed to happen. 

However what you can do is participate in the submissions (you have till end of this month), if enough people provide feedback some things can be adjusted possibly the back dating which really is the biggest problem. 

 

Please make a submission it you are affected by this.

[Parley]

There is no backdating of the policy.

It will apply from the date of announcement of the policy.

[dredg97]

1 minute ago, Parley said:

There is no backdating of the policy.

It will apply from the date of announcement of the policy.

No backdating, are you serious?

The new proposal was announced on April 20th, a Bill has NOT been drafted, once the Bill will pass through parliament and becomes law, it will be applied to all applications lodged after April 20th.

All applications made after April 20th are currently not being processed, they are sitting in a limbo/loop/black hole and who knows when they will be processed.

The current law is the Citizenship Act 2007, a new Citizenship Act 2017 or 2018 is far from being enacted and once it will, if all aspects of the proposal are kept, it will be applied retrospectively from April 20th.

Are you still not seeing the backdating issue?

 

[Parley]

That is not backdating.

This happens regularly, most usually on budget night but other times too where changes are announced effective immediately with the changes formally enacted later but effective from the date of announcement.

If people were eligible to apply before the 20th April then they probably should have done so when eligible as rules can and do change.

[Roberta2]

I'll bet bills for all these changes have been drafted.  They would have to be, with parliament resuming this week.  Then with the First Reading, they will become  public.  With all the other issues going on, they might not attract much media attention.

[Keep me in oz]

7 hours ago, whtzau said:

Hi Guys,

 

You may refer to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYRvi6XH4LKUvdCW5vmCG44U7VG469oZNQeKgceVDO4/edit?ts=589cfc5c#gid=0

 

looks like DIBP has started to process application lodged on April 19.

 

We will see how they  handle those applications submitted on of after April 20.

Wow! Did amit really get a test date 4 days after he received notification of the test!? I must know how to do this! Lol

[Sheila]

3 hours ago, Keep me in oz said:

Wow! Did amit really get a test date 4 days after he received notification of the test!? I must know how to do this! Lol

Another guy date in Nov have test email same day as Amit

[Keep me in oz]

5 minutes ago, Sheila said:

Another guy date in Nov have test email same day as Amit

Yea that sounds more like it!! You get yours yet!?

[Sheila]

Not yet

[Eddie937]

4 hours ago, Keep me in oz said:

Wow! Did amit really get a test date 4 days after he received notification of the test!? I must know how to do this! Lol

Is that list just made up? 

Have you seen some of the names? ?

[Sheila]

5 minutes ago, Eddie937 said:

Is that list just made up? 

Have you seen some of the names? ?

Not sure---I am in the list with real data though.

[Eddie937]

13 hours ago, whtzau said:

Hi Guys,

 

You may refer to https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JYRvi6XH4LKUvdCW5vmCG44U7VG469oZNQeKgceVDO4/edit?ts=589cfc5c#gid=0

 

looks like DIBP has started to process application lodged on April 19.

 

We will see how they  handle those applications submitted on of after April 20.

Has anyone in this forum got their name on the list who submitted their application after April 20 on the old rules and didn't meet the criteria of the new rules?

[Sheila]

11 hours ago, Eddie937 said:

Has anyone in this forum got their name on the list who submitted their application after April 20 on the old rules and didn't meet the criteria of the new rules?

No Idea, May be there are people but DIBP is not looking on applications on 20 or afterwards until rules are more clear and approved. These applications are apparently now just "Frozen". Just a limbo position, very sad

 

 

[seraphim]

28 minutes ago, Sheila said:

No Idea, May be there are people but DIBP is not looking on applications on 20 or afterwards until rules are more clear and approved. These applications are apparently now just "Frozen". Just a limbo position, very sad.

Confirmed. Just been on the phone to immi, and received their official "unofficial' can't say but.  They were very honest. Regardless of application (i.e we are 4 years PR and British citizens very straightforward etc) nothing is going to happen to ANY post 20th application until new laws are discussed, drafted, new tests pledges and exams made and tested, so for anyone 21st and later , look at 2 years not 8-10 months, just for the government to pull it's proverbial finger out.  

 

Can we get a slow hand clap for Turnbull and his knee jerk panic about being ousted as leader!

28 minutes ago, Sheila said:

 

 

 

[jolie2015]

19 hours ago, Parley said:

That is not backdating.

This happens regularly, most usually on budget night but other times too where changes are announced effective immediately with the changes formally enacted later but effective from the date of announcement.

If people were eligible to apply before the 20th April then they probably should have done so when eligible as rules can and do change.

Under the Australian Citizenship Act 2007, applicants who were Permanent Residents before 1 July 2007 could still apply for citizenship if they met the old Residence Requirements (2 years vs the then newly introduced 4 year requirement), for applications until 30 June 2010. This, to me, sounds like a fair course of action.

[ian360]

4 minutes ago, jolie2015 said:

Under the Australian Citizenship Act 2007, applicants who were Permanent Residents before 1 July 2007 could still apply for citizenship if they met the old Residence Requirements (2 years vs the then newly introduced 4 year requirement), for applications until 30 June 2010. This, to me, sounds like a fair course of action.

I agree that this sounds fair, but this is not about being fair, it is about Mally Turnbull protecting his own arse - selfishness and a complete disregard for people's lives does not even begin to explain it... But yeah, don't worry about us, as long as Turnbull is doing okay, that is all that matters, right?

[Zet01]

32 minutes ago, seraphim said:

Confirmed. Just been on the phone to immi, and received their official "unofficial' can't say but.  They were very honest. Regardless of application (i.e we are 4 years PR and British citizens very straightforward etc) nothing is going to happen to ANY post 20th application until new laws are discussed, drafted, new tests pledges and exams made and tested, so for anyone 21st and later , look at 2 years not 8-10 months, just for the government to pull it's proverbial finger out.  

 

Can we get a slow hand clap for Turnbull and his knee jerk panic about being ousted as leader!

 

oh my.. look like we will just have to wait for the new rules to be published and wait til 2020 for us to meet the new criteria of 4 yrs PR.

[whtzau]

1 hour ago, seraphim said:

Confirmed. Just been on the phone to immi, and received their official "unofficial' can't say but.  They were very honest. Regardless of application (i.e we are 4 years PR and British citizens very straightforward etc) nothing is going to happen to ANY post 20th application until new laws are discussed, drafted, new tests pledges and exams made and tested, so for anyone 21st and later , look at 2 years not 8-10 months, just for the government to pull it's proverbial finger out.  

 

Can we get a slow hand clap for Turnbull and his knee jerk panic about being ousted as leader!

 

so those applicants who fulfill 4 years PR requirement will also need to wait till this new rules passed parliament ?

[seraphim]

1 minute ago, whtzau said:

so those applicants who fulfill 4 years PR requirement will also need to wait till this new rules passed parliament ?

Yep, as they would still require the test, interview, English language test etc, none of which are in place. Until a new law is drafted, discussed, amended, approved, voted through to the statute books, and then AFTER that, a new test etc are created and a test provider commissioned etc, nothing will now happen. Not the employees fault at DIAC, but what on earth are they supposed to DO for the next 18 months? sit on their hands?

 

it's a bit like saying "we're going  to change the law to make something illegal, but it's not in force, but don't do anything because you might break the law we haven't written yet". 

 

Applications should by law follow the law IN FORCE, until they change it, and if it's so important, then they should priority change the law. 

 

Just very frustrating, shows a level of federal incompetence and Malcolm's panic really. In comparison to state government, I applied for a working with children check, and got my clearance in less than 1 hour, plus the 15 minute wait at Service NSW.  Now THAT was efficient government! 

[dredg97]

10 minutes ago, seraphim said:

Applications should by law follow the law IN FORCE, until they change it, and if it's so important, then they should priority change the law. 

That's what I have been trying to say yesterday...

Obviously we are considering the worst case scenario in saying it's gonna take up to 2020 now, but I do hope the retrospective aspect (and yes IT IS retrospective) will be dropped during the process.

[whtzau]

16 minutes ago, seraphim said:

Yep, as they would still require the test, interview, English language test etc, none of which are in place. Until a new law is drafted, discussed, amended, approved, voted through to the statute books, and then AFTER that, a new test etc are created and a test provider commissioned etc, nothing will now happen. Not the employees fault at DIAC, but what on earth are they supposed to DO for the next 18 months? sit on their hands?

 

it's a bit like saying "we're going  to change the law to make something illegal, but it's not in force, but don't do anything because you might break the law we haven't written yet". 

 

Applications should by law follow the law IN FORCE, until they change it, and if it's so important, then they should priority change the law. 

 

Just very frustrating, shows a level of federal incompetence and Malcolm's panic really. In comparison to state government, I applied for a working with children check, and got my clearance in less than 1 hour, plus the 15 minute wait at Service NSW.  Now THAT was efficient government! 

Between Australian Citizenship Bill 2005 to Australian Citizenship Act 2007, immigration office still processed citizenship application under the regulation of Australia Citizenship Act 1948. I do not know if this is against any law if DIBP starts to pend all the application lodged on or after 20/04/2017.

[Keep me in oz]

I just spoke to immigration to and asked what would be happening with my application she said that it will be only hold until July/August until the legislation has been discussed more! 

 

She mentioned that that people who aren't eligible for the new criteria MAY get a refund and said they have been advised that people who happen to become eligible for a three month period after the change the department would hold their fee meaning they wouldn't have to pay again. 

I told her I wouldn't be eligible under new legislation for another 3 years and she said its very likely that I would have to wait that length of time and meet the new criteria.

everyone we all seem to speak to there has something slightly different to say but it's looking more and more likely that those who applied after 20th April are in for a huge wait, some changes and some diasappoinemnt! 

Keep positive people!

[dredg97]

Please read this legal case:

Raveendran and Minister for Immigration and Border Protection ( Citizenship ) [2017] AATA 653 (5 May 2017)

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/cth/AATA/2017/653.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=citizenship

Considerations section, n.42-44, number 44 in particular

42. For the sake of completeness, I note that on 20 April 2017, that is, on the day of the hearing, a joint media statement was published on the website of the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. The media statement was by the Hon. Peter Dutton MP Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, and the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull, Prime Minister, titled “Strengthening the Integrity of Australian  Citizenship ”.
43. The joint media statement provided in part as follows:

The Turnbull Government will strengthen Australian  citizenship  by putting Australian values at the heart of  citizenship  processes and requirements.
Our reforms will ensure applicants are competent in English, have been a permanent resident for at least four years and commit to embracing Australian values.

44. In this decision, I take no account of the pending changes to the law governing Australian  Citizenship . These announced alterations have not been legislated into law, nor has the date of their operation been announced.

 

 

[bwatt99]

3 hours ago, seraphim said:

Confirmed. Just been on the phone to immi, and received their official "unofficial' can't say but.  They were very honest. Regardless of application (i.e we are 4 years PR and British citizens very straightforward etc) nothing is going to happen to ANY post 20th application until new laws are discussed, drafted, new tests pledges and exams made and tested, so for anyone 21st and later , look at 2 years not 8-10 months, just for the government to pull it's proverbial finger out.  

 

Can we get a slow hand clap for Turnbull and his knee jerk panic about being ousted as leader!

 

So what does this mean for wife who was eligible 1st june under old rules and in july will have 3 yrs pr? But new rules its july next year.