TemporaryVisaHolder

Current 457 visa holders' transition to PR after March 2018?

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    Hi everyone

    I was granted 457 visa in 7/2016. My occupation was in consolidated list and now it is in shorterm list. According to what announced, current 457 visa holders are not affected by the new rule. However, under new rule, from 3/2018, transition from 457 visa to PR has to comply with the long term list. That means 457 visa holders with visa granted from 3/2016 to 17/4/2017, whose occupations now fall I n the short term list, are not eligible to transition to PR. This new rule will see tens of thousands of current 457 visa holders affected and disadvantaged which is quite contrary to what has been announced that current 457 visa holders are not affected. It would be fair that ALL current 457 visa holders should enjoy grandfathering effect to transit to PR after 3/2018.

    Thanks everyone and correct me if I'm wrong

     

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    I'm afraid I can't help much but I'm interested in case you hear anything from anyone. We got our 457 before you (in august 2015) so are able to apply for PR at the end of August 2017 this year. My husband's occupation is on the short term list now and I'm wondering what will happen if the visa isn't granted by March 2018 (immigration think the cut off is 1st March not 31st March 2018 though they didn't seem sure). We'd be lucky to get it through that quick and I'm wondering if it will then be refused during the application process. The person I spoke to at immigration thought it would be refused if it isn't granted by March 2018 even if we applied in August/Sept 2017. If that is the case then, it sounds  anyone applying after March 2018 would definitely be unlucky if their occuaption is on the short term list. And this seems completely counter to the grandfathering rules :-( I hope someone can clarify this soon. 


    186 Transition

    Employer Nomination Lodged 8.9.17; Visa lodged 18.9.17 (Onshore, LR, 5 people).

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    Posted (edited)
    On 4/19/2017 at 0:10 PM, TemporaryVisaHolder said:

    Hi everyone

    I was granted 457 visa in 7/2016. My occupation was in consolidated list and now it is in shorterm list. According to what announced, current 457 visa holders are not affected by the new rule. However, under new rule, from 3/2018, transition from 457 visa to PR has to comply with the long term list. That means 457 visa holders with visa granted from 3/2016 to 17/4/2017, whose occupations now fall I n the short term list, are not eligible to transition to PR. This new rule will see tens of thousands of current 457 visa holders affected and disadvantaged which is quite contrary to what has been announced that current 457 visa holders are not affected. It would be fair that ALL current 457 visa holders should enjoy grandfathering effect to transit to PR after 3/2018.

    Thanks everyone and correct me if I'm wrong

     

    Where did you find a statement regarding "between 3/2016 to 17/4/2016"? From what I have read on various news sites your 457 visa is honoured (grandfather clause) until the end of its term and all current 457 holders will have the option to apply for PR. The new visas will only affect new applicants.

    Edited by Jimmynut24

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    "The 95,000 skilled migrants currently in Australia on 457 visas would be unaffected and still be able for permanent residency at the end of the four years." - News.com.au

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    Taken Directly from DIBP

    Short-term Skilled Occupation List (STSOL)

    "There is no separate STSOL list on our website as visa programmes that utilise this list can also access some additional occupations on the MLTSSL. For ease of reference, we have combined both the STSOL and the eligible MLTSSL occupations  together. See: Combined list of eligible skilled occupations.

    You must nominate an occupation on this Combined list of eligible skilled occupations if you are applying for any of the below:

    Removed occupations

    On 19 April 2017, 200 occupations were removed entirely from the STSOL.

    See: List of the removed occupations

    A further 16 occupations on the MLTSSL (indicated by ‘** asterisks’) were restricted to only apply to the following visa programmes:

    See: Medium and Long-term Strategic Skills List (MLTSSL)

    If your occupation has been removed from the list, you will be impacted if:

    If you already hold a subclass 457 visa, you will not be impacted by these removed occupations unless you apply for a further subclass 457 visa or are changing your occupation or employer.

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    3 hours ago, Jimmynut24 said:

    Where did you find a statement regarding "between 3/2016 to 17/4/2016"? From what I have read on various news sites your 457 visa is honoured (grandfather clause) until the end of its term and all current 457 holders will have the option to apply for PR. The new visas will only affect new applicants.

    Hi Jimmy. DIBP reform effective from 18/4/2017 stated that from 3/2018 for ENS 186 visa, the long term list will now apply. That means for 457 visa holders whith visas granted from 3/2016 to 17/4/2017 whose occupations fall into shorterm list, this cutoff date deprives them of their transition to PR. According to DIBP published statistics, this number amounts to tens of thousands, whose 457 visas were current at the time Turnbull announced the reform. Did he say current 457 visa holders were not affected and their CONDITIONS still continued? Yes a lot 457 visa holders CURRENT at the time he said were affected. DIBP reform/policy is therefore significantly RETROSPECTIVE and against grandfathering rule.

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    As I have stated in other posts, there are no Regulations or Policy in regards to the changes to the subclass 186 visa pathway, as they are proposed changes. As such the information is limited to what is on the Immigration website, which is not clear and in some cases contradictory. This is leading to much speculation and confusion.

    It has been stated that current 457 visa holders will not be affected and the current rules will apply to them, although this is contradicted by the statement which says all ENS and RSMS post March 2018 will need to nominate an occupation on the MLTSSL.

    The reality is that until changes are actually made and the relevant Regulations and Policy are released, all will be speculation.

    In my opinion there will be changes to latest proposals, as in their current form they will be crippling to many Australian industries.


    Raul T Senise MARN 0636699

    www.ozimmigration.com

    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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    4 hours ago, Raul Senise said:

    In my opinion there will be changes to latest proposals, as in their current form they will be crippling to many Australian industries.

    Definitely! My role was on the market for 9 weeks before I applied in Feb 2016 and flew out 6 weeks later. There was a serious lack of skill in WA to meet the level required at the time. I quit my job, sold my car, my flat, my girlfriend, all to start a new life here. I finally got my 457 in November 2016. I will be gutted beyond all comprehension if I have to go back to the UK and start my life all over again. I made the commitment to move here, follow the Aussie way of life and work hard for a company who needed me to fulfil a much needed position and earn my 457. My skills assessment for Direct Entry Scheme 186 Visa started being accessed by VETASSESS in March having already waited 4 months since submitting the application. Even that is now on hold whilst they learn how to assess the new skill exclusions. #justmyluck

    It seems to me that these changes have not been properly thought out. I can't for one second believe those who are currently on 457 visa's wont have the option for PR post March 2018 given that many like myself gave up a lot to start a new and happy life in Australia with intention of getting PR and then citizenship.
     

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    found this on another thread if it helps anyone...TRT it is then after March 2018

      On 19/04/2017 at 9:50 AM, millski88 said:

    I did not ask that exact question as it is not applicable to my situation. However, in my opinion it would not be an issue. I say this because the material introducing these new lists stipulates that they are applicable specifically to future ENS 186 Direct Entry Stream applications, whereas the TRT stream is not mentioned.

    I believe this is because the TRT stream would also be restructured/re-named for those after introduction of the new temporary visas in March 2018. By the sounds of it, in the meantime the TRT stream would remain governed under the previous rules for those already on a 457 visa (as by it’s nature it is exclusively for those already on 457 visas), due to this ‘grandfathering agreement’.

    Please understand, I did not get this information from the Department, this is purely my opinion and speculation.

    Thanks for your response!

    I have contacted immigration and got a call back just now - they have confirmed your thoughts. She put me on hold and spoke to her manager and confirmed that the changes only refer to those wishing to enter via the direct entry scheme and not through transition to 186 - thank goodness for that, it was a sleepless night!

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    This is really helpful.  

    I am currently on a 457 visa and my job role is Public Relations.  My visa was issued in March 2016 so will reach the 2 year point in March 2018 when we were planning on ENS TRT 186.  

    Does this reply mean I will still have 'grandfathering' rights to apply for ENS TRT 186 even though my job role doesn't appear on the new list.

    Am I better apply for Direct Entry 186 ENS now?

     

    10 minutes ago, Jimmynut24 said:

    found this on another thread if it helps anyone...TRT it is then after March 2018

      On 19/04/2017 at 9:50 AM, millski88 said:

    I did not ask that exact question as it is not applicable to my situation. However, in my opinion it would not be an issue. I say this because the material introducing these new lists stipulates that they are applicable specifically to future ENS 186 Direct Entry Stream applications, whereas the TRT stream is not mentioned.

    I believe this is because the TRT stream would also be restructured/re-named for those after introduction of the new temporary visas in March 2018. By the sounds of it, in the meantime the TRT stream would remain governed under the previous rules for those already on a 457 visa (as by it’s nature it is exclusively for those already on 457 visas), due to this ‘grandfathering agreement’.

    Please understand, I did not get this information from the Department, this is purely my opinion and speculation.

    Thanks for your response!

    I have contacted immigration and got a call back just now - they have confirmed your thoughts. She put me on hold and spoke to her manager and confirmed that the changes only refer to those wishing to enter via the direct entry scheme and not through transition to 186 - thank goodness for that, it was a sleepless night!

     

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    I've heard that immigration on the phone sometimes don't know either and not to 100% trust what they tell you! I'd prefer hearing it from a MA.

    I can apply for my TRT in July and am also concerned it wont be approved until after the March 2018 date. I'm pretty sure the skills piece won't apply to us but what about the eligibility shift from 2yrs to 3yrs?

    I'm hoping that changes may only be based on application date, so as long as you apply before March, rather than when they get to processing it.

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    We will not know for sure until the relevant Regulations and Policy are release, which will not be for a while.


    Raul T Senise MARN 0636699

    www.ozimmigration.com

    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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    6 hours ago, Jimmynut24 said:

    found this on another thread if it helps anyone...TRT it is then after March 2018

      On 19/04/2017 at 9:50 AM, millski88 said:

    I did not ask that exact question as it is not applicable to my situation. However, in my opinion it would not be an issue. I say this because the material introducing these new lists stipulates that they are applicable specifically to future ENS 186 Direct Entry Stream applications, whereas the TRT stream is not mentioned.

    I believe this is because the TRT stream would also be restructured/re-named for those after introduction of the new temporary visas in March 2018. By the sounds of it, in the meantime the TRT stream would remain governed under the previous rules for those already on a 457 visa (as by it’s nature it is exclusively for those already on 457 visas), due to this ‘grandfathering agreement’.

    Please understand, I did not get this information from the Department, this is purely my opinion and speculation.

    Thanks for your response!

    I have contacted immigration and got a call back just now - they have confirmed your thoughts. She put me on hold and spoke to her manager and confirmed that the changes only refer to those wishing to enter via the direct entry scheme and not through transition to 186 - thank goodness for that, it was a sleepless night!

    Do not assume DIBP gives correct information on the phone.  They are incorrect more often than you'd like to think.


    ____________________________________________________

    186 ENS Temporary Residence Transition - Granted Dec 2013 :biggrin:

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    Do not assume DIBP gives correct information on the phone.  They are incorrect more often than you'd like to think.


    If that's the case, that changes only apply to DE stream, then I'm keen to know why is this on the fact sheet from March 2018: 'Residency: The permanent residence eligibility period will be extended from two to three years' - since this only applies to TRT stream.

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    2 hours ago, Vic154 said:

    If that's the case, that changes only apply to DE stream, then I'm keen to know why is this on the fact sheet from March 2018: 'Residency: The permanent residence eligibility period will be extended from two to three years' - since this only applies to TRT stream.

    I assume you meant to quote Jimmynut24 and his post is confirmation that DIBP often gives incorrect information.  According to the published fact sheet, the proposal is to change the residency period from 2 to 3 years.  But as Raul has pointed out, this is a proposal at this time and until the official regulations are updated, nothing is certain.


    ____________________________________________________

    186 ENS Temporary Residence Transition - Granted Dec 2013 :biggrin:

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    On 21/04/2017 at 0:19 PM, Raul Senise said:

    We will not know for sure until the relevant Regulations and Policy are release, which will not be for a while.

    When do you think these will be released? even if its an educated guess  

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    1 hour ago, Jimmynut24 said:

    When do you think these will be released? even if its an educated guess  

    Based on current form, this will be anyone's guess.

    If we take the new Citizenship rules as an example, they came into effect on the 20th of April, but the relevant Legislation to allow the changes has not yet passed.


    Raul T Senise MARN 0636699

    www.ozimmigration.com

    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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    Seeming that Turnbull and his party are observing how much public support these proposed changes would bring to them amid political turmoils leading to the next federal election. They should note that MAJORITY OF AUSTRALIANS support skilled workers to become permanent residents.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/apr/25/skilled-migrants-residency-but-citizenship-hurdles-tony-abbott-guardian-essential-poll

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    Assistant Minister for Immigration and Border Protection Alex Hawke: "...There are pathways to permanent residency that have been attached to it [to recognise that] when people come and work for substantial periods of time they should be able to have a pathway to permanent residency..."

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-25/q&a:-citizenship-and-visa-changes-dominate-program/8467880

     

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    Hi everyone.

    Thanks for the info posted so far its been helpful but also a little unclear especially after reading so many articles online which can be quite contradictory. 

    My situation is little different from yours as my 457 is expiring in Feb 2018 and my employer was in the process of nominating me on a subclass 186 visa under the transitional stream as i've been employed by them for 3 years now. Now the skills list has been updated my job has been removed. I've read a couple articles which state that your nominated position MUST be on the new list when applying for PR. 

    Reading your comments and Jimmynut24 attachment from the DIPB it looks like I can choose an occupation from the consolidated list.

    Like I said my visa expires Feb 2018 so I would like to submit the 186 application as soon as possible but i don't know if it will be rejected if my job is not on the new MLTSSL / STSOL lists. 

    Appreciate any help...thank you in advance!

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    Over the visa change scandal, Turnbull is accused of using the cheap politics of racism and crass anti-migrant sentiment to appease the conservative rump of his own party. 

    Note that NO AUSTRALIAN has ever voted for the man called Turnbull. He staged a coup within his party and overthrew his own comrade Tony Abbott to seized the prime ministership. With the visa change scandal, he claimed to save jobs for Australians. In fact, he saved only his own.

    http://transitiontopr.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/turnbull-governments-plan-to-scrap-457.html

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/greens-in-bid-to-stymie-malcolm-turnbulls-visa-changes-20170423-gvqkir.html

    • Like 1

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    Australian Senator is concerned about Turnbull's irrational and unfair ban of permanent residency
     
    "I am particularly concerned that the biggest impact of the government's move is the UNFAIR BAN on PERMANENT RESIDENCY while, with a nod-and-wink, allowing some businesses to continue exploiting workers through constant temporary work visas"

    http://transitiontopr.blogspot.com.au/2017/04/senator-is-concerned-about-turnbulls.html

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    Posted (edited)

    Given the fact current 457 holders are still eligible for home loans, some already owning a home and all of us pay income tax, I can't personally see the route to PR being closed for us post March 2018 regardless of the new rules. For those already here many have made life decisions and long term investments based on the progression 457 offered to PR. Income tax on 95,000 457 holders must be around the $1bn in government revenues if my "back of a napkin calculation" is almost correct. Maybe everyone on a 457 should rack up some debt by getting a mortgage (new build of course), rack up a credit card and take out car loan. Then if we all have to leave we do what the Saudi's did back in 2008 and leave the banks with a big credit headache, all our cars at the airport and half built houses on the developments.

    Edited by Jimmynut24
    • Like 1

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    Not only that, think of all the super 457 holders have saved which would be withdrawn if we left, so yeah times that by all 457 visa holders and it's fairly significant.... And it's only 95,000 issued in last 12 months, plus partners/spouses that are working.
    Not sure if they would consider this though to be honest


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I called my agent today again. They said they had contacted DIBP and sent them a list of very practical and specific questions that require answers and clarifications/guidance from DIBP. Not sure when those answers will be available. It seems that not only the public, even DIBP themselves get confused over how to interpret those visa changes, especially in relation to thousands of specific cases.

     

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