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lbooth

Are migrants discriminated against?

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13 hours ago, doubter said:

Quite right I was working for the ambulance service and I sometimes had to stop myself saying that ?

You have to fully embrace whatever you are doing and do it the Australian way.Just play the game and tell yourself I came for the lifestyle not the job, which was what I did.If you keep going on moaning and groaning you will soon be known as the whinging Pom ?

It's a two way process though. Aussies should not be of the nature that they know always best and/or vice versa. I'm afraid if unhappy or under acknowledged in one's job, then life style will not amount to very much. Respect and recognition all around. Just don't expect to get in a 'top' position in getting off the boat.

What is this 'lifestyle' anyway? Aussies these days work some of the longest hours of advanced countries and carry some of the largest personal debt and live in a land where some of the world's most expensive housing is found.

Whinging Pom, is an Aussie invention of little significance. Due to Australians being by and large an uncomplaining and tend to accept things any other group that speak out a little more may well be thought of as 'whinging'.

I know nationalities that complain to a degree that would make English appear more like 'shy church mice'.

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21 hours ago, starlight7 said:

I guess its like Donald Trump- very popular with the voters.  If you had 2 equal candidates though- I would choose the Aussie because that is the patriotic thing to do.  Only if they are equal in every respect though.

Everyone's call of course. But surely the one best for the job should get it regardless of birth place, colour, race. That does not mean 'importing' people to do the job. But people on the ground should surely be treated on merit and not by parochial means?

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3 hours ago, MelT said:


Where do you draw the line? If someone was 'Australian' but had moved interstate would this not be new territory also?

When I arrived in Australia 12 years ago I honestly thought 'Australia' gave everyone a 'fair go' ... I can honestly say that from my broad range of experience this is not necessarily the case.




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Bugga, have been retired longer than you've been working.:D

Have had 36 years working in WA , NSW and Qld and can honestly say that I have never felt any discrimination on any workforce. Indeed, Australians like to see someone 'pull their weight' and will certainly give credit to those blokes whose work ethics are good. Maybe your working standard wasn't up to the standard of those working around you?

Cheers, Bobj.

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I never personally came across any discrimination in the workplace and I happily worked alongside Aussies and migrants from China, India, Indonesia, Sri Lanka and other migrant Brits.  We all must have come across at our job interview as the best person for the job.

 

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8 hours ago, MelT said:


Where do you draw the line? If someone was 'Australian' but had moved interstate would this not be new territory also?

When I arrived in Australia 12 years ago I honestly thought 'Australia' gave everyone a 'fair go' ... I can honestly say that from my broad range of experience this is not necessarily the case.




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Not quite the same thing. I do speak from experience having a English CEO, just off the boat and out of depth. The 'Fair Go' has long diminished in Australia. More nepotism being the go and watching the back.

Old clichés take a time to die though. Twelve years ago the 'boom' likely hid under laying realties.

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6 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

It's a two way process though. Aussies should not be of the nature that they know always best and/or vice versa. I'm afraid if unhappy or under acknowledged in one's job, then life style will not amount to very much. Respect and recognition all around. Just don't expect to get in a 'top' position in getting off the boat.

What is this 'lifestyle' anyway? Aussies these days work some of the longest hours of advanced countries and carry some of the largest personal debt and live in a land where some of the world's most expensive housing is found.

Whinging Pom, is an Aussie invention of little significance. Due to Australians being by and large an uncomplaining and tend to accept things any other group that speak out a little more may well be thought of as 'whinging'.

I know nationalities that complain to a degree that would make English appear more like 'shy church mice'.

I can't speak for you and vice versa but I am at a stage in my life where I am not career driven. I went to Australia knowing I was going to be deskilled. I would have stayed in the UK if that was important but it gave me an opportunity to go and try it out, which some only dream of trying.

I slightly agree if you are not happy in your job then lifestyle doesn't amount to much.All the more reason not to keep on whinging and try to fit in, something I do well wherever I go.If you can't you find employment elsewhere. In human nature we all want to be liked and to fit in so its best we try to. I can also stand toe to toe with the best of them when I need to.

Once again I can't speak for you but for me lifestyle was doing things outdoors when it's not freezing cold and pouring with rain. That is something I personally can't deal with in the UK and I hate the winter here. I loved the fact you can drive for hours and hours with hardly any traffic or people. So much to see and do you would never do it in a lifetime.

I worked the same hours in Australia as the UK with less responsibility and for more money. Did I say more money? I never live above my means so no debt for me only more disposable money.In regards to housing yes more expensive in OZ but that never affected me where I was either.

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31 minutes ago, doubter said:

I can't speak for you and vice versa but I am at a stage in my life where I am not career driven. I went to Australia knowing I was going to be deskilled. I would have stayed in the UK if that was important but it gave me an opportunity to go and try it out, which some only dream of trying.

I slightly agree if you are not happy in your job then lifestyle doesn't amount to much.All the more reason not to keep on whinging and try to fit in, something I do well wherever I go.If you can't you find employment elsewhere. In human nature we all want to be liked and to fit in so its best we try to. I can also stand toe to toe with the best of them when I need to.

Once again I can't speak for you but for me lifestyle was doing things outdoors when it's not freezing cold and pouring with rain. That is something I personally can't deal with in the UK and I hate the winter here. I loved the fact you can drive for hours and hours with hardly any traffic or people. So much to see and do you would never do it in a lifetime.

I worked the same hours in Australia as the UK with less responsibility and for more money. Did I say more money? I never live above my means so no debt for me only more disposable money.In regards to housing yes more expensive in OZ but that never affected me where I was either.

Very well said, we are going to look at our 1st home build tomorrow, something we probably would have never done in the uk, very excited x

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17 minutes ago, Kirstyj said:

Very well said, we are going to look at our 1st home build tomorrow, something we probably would have never done in the uk, very excited x

Good luck would love to do that ?

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9 hours ago, Kirstyj said:

We love it here, yes people are always calling me a Pom and take the Micky out of my accent as I'm from Lancashire, but I lived in Edinburgh before coming here and I found that was a lot worse, and you always get 'I love the way you talk' , I take it with a pinch of salt as we all do it.  Anyway a sunny 28deg in Perth today a lovely autumn day think it's time to go for a swim ???‍♀️?‍♀️X

I get it with a Welsh accent too and a great deal of people I met had roots someway or another in the UK anyway. We had a good Aussie friend on our street who thought we were actually speaking Welsh because of our accent,slang and pronounciation. She thought we were pulling her leg when we told her we were speaking English and couldn't speak Welsh ??

I also get it in the UK as my job sometimes takes me over the border.

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My partner is from Edinburgh, no one takes the fun out of his accent ???????‍♂️?‍♂️X

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11 hours ago, Kirstyj said:

We love it here, yes people are always calling me a Pom and take the Micky out of my accent as I'm from Lancashire, but I lived in Edinburgh before coming here and I found that was a lot worse, and you always get 'I love the way you talk' , I take it with a pinch of salt as we all do it.  Anyway a sunny 28deg in Perth today a lovely autumn day think it's time to go for a swim ???‍♀️?‍♀️X

I've never had it said to me with any malice (i'm from Lancashire too .. maybe that's it? lol)


I just want PIO to be a happy place where people are nice to each other and unicorns poop rainbows

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Not quite the same thing. I do speak from experience having a English CEO, just off the boat and out of depth. The 'Fair Go' has long diminished in Australia. More nepotism being the go and watching the back.
Old clichés take a time to die though. Twelve years ago the 'boom' likely hid under laying realties.

I partly agree with your comments. We had no issues finding work in Victoria, infact i was headhunted. However, since moving to Queensland we have found it impossible to obtain local employment. My husband worked interstate for 2 1/2 years because he could not find wirk locally. Since closure of the power station where he worked interstate at the end of 2016 is very frustrated applied for over 100 jobs with no success... hencw why we may have no choice but to return to the UK. Very sad as we have never not had work (both professionals/highly skilled and experienced) our entire married life (nearly 20 years).

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1 hour ago, MelT said:


I partly agree with your comments. We had no issues finding work in Victoria, infact i was headhunted. However, since moving to Queensland we have found it impossible to obtain local employment. My husband worked interstate for 2 1/2 years because he could not find wirk locally. Since closure of the power station where he worked interstate at the end of 2016 is very frustrated applied for over 100 jobs with no success... hencw why we may have no choice but to return to the UK. Very sad as we have never not had work (both professionals/highly skilled and experienced) our entire married life (nearly 20 years).

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I'm sorry to hear that x

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1 hour ago, MelT said:


I partly agree with your comments. We had no issues finding work in Victoria, infact i was headhunted. However, since moving to Queensland we have found it impossible to obtain local employment. My husband worked interstate for 2 1/2 years because he could not find wirk locally. Since closure of the power station where he worked interstate at the end of 2016 is very frustrated applied for over 100 jobs with no success... hencw why we may have no choice but to return to the UK. Very sad as we have never not had work (both professionals/highly skilled and experienced) our entire married life (nearly 20 years).

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I think QLD must have been difficult for a few years, my colleague who is Australian and trained (nursing) in Aus went to QLD with her partner and was unable to find any work other than casual shifts with an agency - she had to return to WA after less than a year

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I just want PIO to be a happy place where people are nice to each other and unicorns poop rainbows

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2 hours ago, MelT said:


I partly agree with your comments. We had no issues finding work in Victoria, infact i was headhunted. However, since moving to Queensland we have found it impossible to obtain local employment. My husband worked interstate for 2 1/2 years because he could not find wirk locally. Since closure of the power station where he worked interstate at the end of 2016 is very frustrated applied for over 100 jobs with no success... hencw why we may have no choice but to return to the UK. Very sad as we have never not had work (both professionals/highly skilled and experienced) our entire married life (nearly 20 years).

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I guess realities of the market place (and neo liberal economic policy) is finally dawning on those under early forties, whom in all likelihood have yet to experience recession/downturn and challenging employment conditions during their lifetime.

Professional qualifications have little to do with it this time around. There are so many around. The eighties saw the Blue Collar culled. I guess at the end of the day we are for the most part disposable. (just takes longer for many to realise it) Much more nasty stuff around the corner, I'm afraid. Of course not being divided and self realisation that change is needed, are baby steps towards solution.

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15 hours ago, doubter said:

I can't speak for you and vice versa but I am at a stage in my life where I am not career driven. I went to Australia knowing I was going to be deskilled. I would have stayed in the UK if that was important but it gave me an opportunity to go and try it out, which some only dream of trying.

I slightly agree if you are not happy in your job then lifestyle doesn't amount to much.All the more reason not to keep on whinging and try to fit in, something I do well wherever I go.If you can't you find employment elsewhere. In human nature we all want to be liked and to fit in so its best we try to. I can also stand toe to toe with the best of them when I need to.

Once again I can't speak for you but for me lifestyle was doing things outdoors when it's not freezing cold and pouring with rain. That is something I personally can't deal with in the UK and I hate the winter here. I loved the fact you can drive for hours and hours with hardly any traffic or people. So much to see and do you would never do it in a lifetime.

I worked the same hours in Australia as the UK with less responsibility and for more money. Did I say more money? I never live above my means so no debt for me only more disposable money.In regards to housing yes more expensive in OZ but that never affected me where I was either.

I suggest it is far more involved than you state. For one thing alternative work is sadly not an option for many due to a host of reasons. (a failing economy, loss of benefits, being on short term, casual, (and all that that implies) to state a few.

No actually I have never been burdened by the need for career positioning. I would never have been so mobile between countries(not only Anglo speaking either) if so focused.

Being liked? Perhaps. Being respected more the call I suspect for more, as migration should (a big should I know) be about bringing in fresh ideas and solutions to problems, but indeed should be a two way process.

What it should not be is ' our way or the highway' and employing robots whom serve or foot soldiers whom purely obey.

I fully agree with never living above means. A position I have always maintained and as such never in a position of servitude. The big picture though should transcend oneself and ask questions to the nature of things like are we as a people, better off, emotionally, in being happier less stressed and in a better place overall than previous generations.

So much to see and do? You not been here long? Must admit I've seen a lot of Australia and do at times scratch my head into where to go next hence usually prefer overseas for both value and variety.

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I get the sense from all of these comments that for a family with children that migration to Australia is risky. My wife's sister has been well settled in Australia with her husband's family for more than 40 years. We tried to get there on the 176 back in 2009 but then DIAC made changes, our application never got allocated and then the 176 was capped and ceased so now we start from scratch but both of us are now in our early 40's. We could get there either through the 189 with her as an accountant but she would just barely get 60 points and apparently accountants are only getting invitations with 70 points. I might be successful registering as a math teacher in Queensland but then finding employment and somebody to sponsor on the soon to be terminated 457 visa could be challenging. 

I say all this because even if we can pull off a miracle with obtaining a visa that would allow us to live and work in Australia, many of you paint a bleak picture about employment and basically being able to survive there and it may not be worth the risk of selling our assets in the United States and incurring the huge moving costs only to realize that grass is not necessarily greener in Australia as I once may have thought.

Edited by westwoodwizard
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55 minutes ago, westwoodwizard said:

I get the sense from all of these comments that for a family with children that migration to Australia is risky. My wife's sister has been well settled in Australia with her husband's family for more than 40 years. We tried to get there on the 176 back in 2009 but then DIAC made changes, our application never got allocated and then the 176 was capped and ceased so now we start from scratch but both of us are now in our early 40's. We could get there either through the 189 with her as an accountant but she would just barely get 60 points and apparently accountants are only getting invitations with 70 points. I might be successful registering as a math teacher in Queensland but then finding employment and somebody to sponsor on the soon to be terminated 457 visa could be challenging.

I say all this because even if we can pull off a miracle with obtaining a visa that would allow us to live and work in Australia, many of you paint a bleak picture about employment and basically being able to survive there and it may not be worth the risk of selling our assets in the United States and incurring the huge moving costs only to realize that grass is not necessarily greener in Australia as I once may have thought.

Absolutely!  Realistically, the grass is not greener.

We've been lucky but I doubt if we would have been as happy or successful if we had emigrated recently rather than over 30 years ago.  Things have very defintely changed over the past few years and not for the better.

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Each visit to my wife's family in Queensland and we love it. It really is a wonderful place and I do believe generally that those who are well settled there do seem much happier than people in the United States. That said, even if we gave it another go on the visa front, do you see any issues with being in our forties in terms of employment...i.e.even if there are vacancies...is age discrimination an issue in Australia the way it is in the United States when it comes to employment? 

And why did things change so much in Australia in terms of the economy that it sounds pretty much like the United States? Same issues of stagnant wages, layoffs, increase in part time labor while decreasing full time labor, etc? I thought that is what made Australia different is the country's attitudes of wanting a better overall society versus everybody just chasing after the Almighty Dollar.

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1 hour ago, westwoodwizard said:

I get the sense from all of these comments that for a family with children that migration to Australia is risky. My wife's sister has been well settled in Australia with her husband's family for more than 40 years. We tried to get there on the 176 back in 2009 but then DIAC made changes, our application never got allocated and then the 176 was capped and ceased so now we start from scratch but both of us are now in our early 40's. We could get there either through the 189 with her as an accountant but she would just barely get 60 points and apparently accountants are only getting invitations with 70 points. I might be successful registering as a math teacher in Queensland but then finding employment and somebody to sponsor on the soon to be terminated 457 visa could be challenging. 

I say all this because even if we can pull off a miracle with obtaining a visa that would allow us to live and work in Australia, many of you paint a bleak picture about employment and basically being able to survive there and it may not be worth the risk of selling our assets in the United States and incurring the huge moving costs only to realize that grass is not necessarily greener in Australia as I once may have thought.

A fair assessment. Migration is a business and a degree of caution and awareness is certainly required. For example the selling of ones property in America (if at all applicable) should be taken into account in just what the same money would purchase in Australia.

USA in general offers a cheaper cost of living , especially if outside the biggest of the main cities.

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28 minutes ago, westwoodwizard said:

Each visit to my wife's family in Queensland and we love it. It really is a wonderful place and I do believe generally that those who are well settled there do seem much happier than people in the United States. That said, even if we gave it another go on the visa front, do you see any issues with being in our forties in terms of employment...i.e.even if there are vacancies...is age discrimination an issue in Australia the way it is in the United States when it comes to employment? 

And why did things change so much in Australia in terms of the economy that it sounds pretty much like the United States? Same issues of stagnant wages, layoffs, increase in part time labor while decreasing full time labor, etc? I thought that is what made Australia different is the country's attitudes of wanting a better overall society versus everybody just chasing after the Almighty Dollar.

Some may say far too close to American economic policy for our own good. Holidays can and do often give 'false' or at least over emphasised opinions towards the over positive to be of much factual use. One's host can over emphase the advantages, or they transplanted at an earlier time when Oz was a different place and the good times rolled on.

Age discrimination is very pronounced in Australia. Chasing the all mighty dollar? Could be OZ. Prices and charges over the top for so much.

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17 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

Some may say far too close to American economic policy for our own good. Holidays can and do often give 'false' or at least over emphasised opinions towards the over positive to be of much factual use. One's host can over emphase the advantages, or they transplanted at an earlier time when Oz was a different place and the good times rolled on.

Age discrimination is very pronounced in Australia. Chasing the all mighty dollar? Could be OZ. Prices and charges over the top for so much.

You are pretty much spot on and something my wife who though she has always loved Australia has been saying something similar to me recently. Her sister's family and all of their friends who we find lovely people moved to Australia between the 1970's and into the early 1990's maybe at the latest. It was a different time and they certainly have had good times. And indeed the hosts do have a tendency to overemphasize the advantages and on top of that we are on a holiday whenever we visit and our goal is to have fun and relax so we are not really seeing it through the lens of would we actually want to live there. 

I will not deny that I still think of the possibility of living there but more and more it seems like maybe we should just be happy that we have family over there and make frequent trips to visit.

Edited by westwoodwizard
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On 20/04/2017 at 11:33 AM, lbooth said:

This is our worry - I appreciate they are doing the right thing for the country but IMO if they have enough Aussies for the job then it wouldnt be on the skills list! 

Its a hard decision - we dont want to pass up the opportunity of being able to move over while we have a job on the list but equally we dont want to move and then be told "you've taken someone's job" or worse be left without employment! 

The skills list has nothing to do with the availability of jobs unfortunately.  There are still some professions on the list where competition for jobs is quite fierce. If the lists were a more accurate picture of job availability I daresay there would be less antagonism. 

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9 minutes ago, Quoll said:

The skills list has nothing to do with the availability of jobs unfortunately.  There are still some professions on the list where competition for jobs is quite fierce. If the lists were a more accurate picture of job availability I daresay there would be less antagonism. 

True, there are so many unemployed tradies, plumbers and electricians and so on, but these are still on the list for WA x

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