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Breaking News - 457 Visas Stopped


Guest The Pom Queen

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4 hours ago, doubter said:

As an example how many Australians would fill the jobs in McDonalds and Hungry Jacks for instance.I doubt many because they don't want to do those kind of jobs just like people in the UK don't want to do low paid jobs that's why 457 visas help employers.

I imagine there are many willing to do the job for decent pay and conditions, unfortunately there are many willing to come from overseas for peanuts and appalling conditions, hopefully Turnbulls decision will help to better regulate this. 

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2 minutes ago, Samson said:

I am the father, The mother is the Australian. I will await a reply from my CO regarding my current visa application and then with this move forward and get some professional advice. let's see what the rest of the week brings. 

I send you positive thoughts. I cannot imagine a country preventing a child from being close to their father... That would seriously shock me!

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Guest The Pom Queen

PRIME Minister Malcolm Turnbull said changes to the 457 visa system would put Australian workers first, but there was one statistic he didn’t mention.

Changes to the system have already been claimed as a victory by conservative senators Pauline Hanson and Cory Bernardi.

Ms Hanson said the change to the system was because of One Nation.

 

Mr Bernardi, who left the Liberal Party to form the Australian Conservatives, said the change was because of pressure from his party.

Mr Turnbull said the four-year visa system, which permits highly skilled migrants to apply for permanent residency at its conclusion, would be replaced in a bid to protect Australian jobs.

The 95,000 skilled migrants currently in Australia on 457 visas would be unaffected and still be able for permanent residency at the end of the four years.

“We will no longer allow 457 visas to be passports to jobs that could and should go to Australians,” Mr Turnbull said.

Unlike the current visa arrangement, the replacement — a two year temporary visa specifically designed to recruit the “best and the brightest” in the national interest — will not allow permanent residency at its conclusion.

However, Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said the 95,000 people already in the country on a 457 work permit would be unaffected by the change and permitted to apply for residency.

“They will continue under the conditions of that visa,” Mr Dutton said.

The program will be replaced by another visa program, with new restrictions.

“It is important businesses still get access to the skills they need to grow and invest, so the 457 visa will be replaced by a new temporary visa, specifically designed to recruit the best and brightest in the national interest,” Mr Turnbull said.

But the announcement has been met with backlash, with many pointing out that less than 1 per cent of Australia’s 12 million strong workforce are on 457 visas.

The decision has been welcomed by employers but dismissed as “tinkering at the edges” by trade unions.

Unions NSW secretary Mark Morey dismissed the new arrangements, saying it’s unlikely there will be any real change.

“What we really need is a root and branch review, so that migrant exploitation and wage theft is properly tackled and Australian standards are both maintained and improved.”

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten slammed the plan.

“Make no mistake, the only job Malcolm Turnbull cares about saving is his own,” he tweeted.

Mr Turnbull said Mr Shorten, as employment minister in a Labor government, was the gold medal winner of issuing 457 visas.

“The fact is that Bill Shorten likes to talk about Australian jobs, but whenever he’s had the opportunity in government to protect them, he’s failed them.”

The Prime Minister maintained the change was about protecting the jobs of Australian workers.

“The fact remains Australian workers must have priority for Australian jobs,” he said.

Under the government’s plan the list of occupations that qualify for a temporary visa will be reduced from its current number of more than 200.

The visas will be limited to a two-year period that require previous work experience.

A second four-year visa will require a higher standard of English language skills as well as a proper criminal check.

The new system would be “manifestly, rigorously, resolutely” conducted in the national interest to put Australian jobs first, Mr Turnbull said.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton announce the changes on Tuesday Picture: Lukas Coch / AAP

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton announce the changes on Tuesday Picture: Lukas Coch / AAPSource:AAP

WHAT IS A 457 VISA?

* The 457 visa program allows business to employ foreign workers for a period up to four years in skilled jobs where there is a shortage of Australian workers.

* The numbers are uncapped and there is no limit on the number of times they can travel in and out of Australia.

* Foreign workers can bring their families to work or study.

* Employers must apply to sponsor a 457 worker or enter into a formal labour agreement with the government.

* They must show they are training locals.

* As at September 30, 2016 there were 95,757 workers in Australia on primary 457 visas and 76,430 secondary visa holders (members of their family).

* But numbers are in decline — in March there was a 9.2 per cent drop in primary 457 visa holders compared to 2015.

* In July 2013 new laws came into effect, including giving Fair Work Australia the power to investigate breaches of the system.

* Labor called for jobs to be advertised locally for at least four weeks before a foreigner is sourced.

 
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6 minutes ago, Samson said:

I am the father, The mother is the Australian. I will await a reply from my CO regarding my current visa application and then with this move forward and get some professional advice. let's see what the rest of the week brings. 

I don't know what to say other than keep strong, I cannot conceive of any decent government forcing parents to be separated from their child, be it a mother or a father, I know rules are rules as such but surely in the case of an Australian child, the best interests of that child takes precedent and having a loving father in its life is surely in the best interests of the child.  MY bestest wishes to you xxx

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Thanks appreciate your kind words. 

If any MA is reading this and you have any experience with visa's that are not the norm, for example as per my case regarding a new born child, BVE and ministerial intervention, please feel free to send me a PM. I just have given up looking for and calling into local Perth based MA's that have no idea!!!! 

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13 minutes ago, Samson said:

I am the father, The mother is the Australian. I will await a reply from my CO regarding my current visa application and then with this move forward and get some professional advice. let's see what the rest of the week brings. 

Sorry, I assumed you were the Mother - my mistake. Yes, do continue to consult an agent as soon as you can to work out your plan. We have seen this happen too many times before where one parent has had to leave the country, normally though because they have ignored the situation.
Good luck.

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I can see why this decision has been made and overall I support it, however, I don't take pleasure in it as there are many people currently on 457 visa's with very different situations and circumstances Who now have to grapple with it and for some it will be a life changer.  I think going forward it is moving in the right direction, so long as it does actually stop the abuse that has been happening, but some people are here legitimately under the true essence of what a 457 was designed for, they are not rorting the system and are paying significant taxes amongst many other things (school fees being one that springs to mind), and my thoughts are with them xxxx

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11 minutes ago, Samson said:

Thanks appreciate your kind words. 

If any MA is reading this and you have any experience with visa's that are not the norm, for example as per my case regarding a new born child, BVE and ministerial intervention, please feel free to send me a PM. I just have given up looking for and calling into local Perth based MA's that have no idea!!!! 

I can't speak for others but unfortunately I have no experience in migration, however others on here do and particularly Allen Collett who has been responding to this thread, all come highly regarded by others on this website, perhaps it is time to call in the real experts with many years experience and let them help you, I am sure something can be done given your child is an Australian Citizen xxx

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7 minutes ago, Phoenix16 said:

I can see why this decision has been made and overall I support it, however, I don't take pleasure in it as there are many people currently on 457 visa's with very different situations and circumstances Who now have to grapple with it and for some it will be a life changer.  I think going forward it is moving in the right direction, so long as it does actually stop the abuse that has been happening, but some people are here legitimately under the true essence of what a 457 was designed for, they are not rorting the system and are paying significant taxes amongst many other things (school fees being one that springs to mind), and my thoughts are with them xxxx

According to various transcripts/reports of today's announcements (including The Pom Queen's above), existing 457 holders are to be exempt of these new rules as part of the agreement.

I am currently in this situation. Under 45, 6 years experience in field, and a good chunk above the minimum salary threshold. 

My ANZSCO code now appears on the short term list, which if i understand correctly actually means i'm still eligible for a Direct Entry 186 PR visa (according to the supporting border website material online). However, i wait with baited breath to see if any further definition of this 'grandfathering agreement' emerges.

I'm only 5 weeks away from my 2 year anniversary on my 457, and just on the cusp of finishing gathering documents for a TRT stream 186 application. For now though, after much research this evening, i'll just about sleep tonight.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

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13 minutes ago, millski88 said:

According to various transcripts/reports of today's announcements (including The Pom Queen's above), existing 457 holders are to be exempt of these new rules as part of the agreement.

I am currently in this situation. Under 45, 6 years experience in field, and a good chunk above the minimum salary threshold. 

My ANZSCO code now appears on the short term list, which if i understand correctly actually means i'm still eligible for a Direct Entry 186 PR visa (according to the supporting border website material online). However, i wait with baited breath to see if any further definition of this 'grandfathering agreement' emerges.

I'm only 5 weeks away from my 2 year anniversary on my 457, and just on the cusp of finishing gathering documents for a TRT stream 186 application. For now though, after much research this evening, i'll just about sleep tonight.

Fingers crossed for everyone!

Well in my humble opinion and if it helps, I would think the grandfather rules apply for the duration of your current 457 so if you are 5 weeks away with ample time still in hand on your 457 I would reasonably expect you are all good, I have my fingers crossed with you!! Xxx 

 

 

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I am in discussions with an employer right now and this news today has thrown the whole thing into disarray. I know he will not want to waste his time and money if I can only stay for 2 years (my job is now on the STSOL), however if I can't somehow apply for PR I'm not going to uproot the kids and give up a good job in the UK. I wonder if anyone has answers to these questions?:

1) Am I right in assuming that there is no PR stream option with the new 2 year visa, only the 4 year? 

2) Under the new scheme, how much does the now one and only on shore 457 renewal cost?

3) Assuming all goes well, and we decide we want to stay, can I apply for a 186 visa onshore whilst still working under the second 457?

My agent is also looking into these questions for me, but like most he is inundated at the moment so thought I'd ask you lovely people. I'm trying to stay positive and find other ways to make this work, but I'm not sure how Mr Turnbull thinks he'll get the "best and the brightest" of any industry if they can only stick around for a couple of years? I'm sure he thinks he knows what he's doing.

Thanks.

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2 hours ago, OJT said:

I am in discussions with an employer right now and this news today has thrown the whole thing into disarray. I know he will not want to waste his time and money if I can only stay for 2 years (my job is now on the STSOL), however if I can't somehow apply for PR I'm not going to uproot the kids and give up a good job in the UK. I wonder if anyone has answers to these questions?:

1) Am I right in assuming that there is no PR stream option with the new 2 year visa, only the 4 year? 

2) Under the new scheme, how much does the now one and only on shore 457 renewal cost?

3) Assuming all goes well, and we decide we want to stay, can I apply for a 186 visa onshore whilst still working under the second 457?

My agent is also looking into these questions for me, but like most he is inundated at the moment so thought I'd ask you lovely people. I'm trying to stay positive and find other ways to make this work, but I'm not sure how Mr Turnbull thinks he'll get the "best and the brightest" of any industry if they can only stick around for a couple of years? I'm sure he thinks he knows what he's doing.

Thanks.

Your questions are very valid. Not sure if this will help you but if I were you, in the exact same situation, I would stay in the U.K.

I do agree that Mid-Senior to Senior people, especially with kids, will not take the risk anymore under these circumstances.

This new visa seems good for:

- Big companies internal short term transfers.

- Associate level single people who are keen to have an international experience.

Even then, skilled (best and brightest) people will have to be offered comfortable packages to make such a short term move in such a far away country without any prospect of immigrating.

If you take a step back and look at the bigger picture, it looks like the Australian government in concerned about long term challenges.

People are currently struggling to buy properties in Australia and this is a problem for their future considering how the government structured the Pension and Super system here. Without a property, people won't be able to sustain later on when they are retired. And I think these changes are trying to alleviate this risk.

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16 minutes ago, millski88 said:

*Update for Weds morning*

I just got off the phone with the Department. The rep told me there is no change to current 457 holders applying for 186 via the TRT stream.

Thank the lord.

cheers ✌?

Hi, does this also apply to those who are sponsored under an occupation that has been removed from the list?

Many thanks in advance

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Adding onto my earlier post and reading through all the info on the Border website, I think I'm screwed now.

111111 CEO/Managing Director is on the combined list but not the medium term list. That means I can only apply for a maximum of 2 years upon renewal going through now.

Then, I can potentially renew again on shore once only.

However, any plans for PR look like their out the window.

The eligibility period is extending to 3 years. Even if it remained at 2 for now, my 2 year point is April 2018.

From March 2018, any applicant for PR must be of a maximum age of 45, by which time I'll be 47.

Also, against the 111111 code there are 3 asterisks with a description that says 'Caveats apply to certain occupations on these lists which exclude use of the occupation in certain circumstances for the Temporary Work (Skilled) visa (subclass 457) programme. Caveats are indicated via ‘*** asterisks’.'

It doesn't give any other detail what these caveats are so either I'm going to be able to get it renewed and then best case scenario, once more (unless they count this renewal now as my only onshore one) or I will be leaving in October when my current visa runs out.

I can't get any info from my MA about this. I'm so concerned. Only bought a house last year, daughter going to school, everything planned forward for the long term and it looks like its all going to be pulled out from under us.

The Corporate Group relocated me here to open up and run a local company because I have successfully done it in other countries, which I'm doing. I employ and train Australians, I pay my taxes both personally and in the company. I am a genuine case however with this age reduction, I honestly do not know what to do now

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Guest The Pom Queen
1 hour ago, Curious said:

Hi, does this also apply to those who are sponsored under an occupation that has been removed from the list?

Many thanks in advance

I'm sure it will. 

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12 hours ago, The Pom Queen said:

PRIME Minister Malcolm Turnbull said changes to the 457 visa system would put Australian workers first, but there was one statistic he didn’t mention.

Changes to the system have already been claimed as a victory by conservative senators Pauline Hanson and Cory Bernardi.

Ms Hanson said the change to the system was because of One Nation.

 

Mr Bernardi, who left the Liberal Party to form the Australian Conservatives, said the change was because of pressure from his party.

Mr Turnbull said the four-year visa system, which permits highly skilled migrants to apply for permanent residency at its conclusion, would be replaced in a bid to protect Australian jobs.

The 95,000 skilled migrants currently in Australia on 457 visas would be unaffected and still be able for permanent residency at the end of the four years.

“We will no longer allow 457 visas to be passports to jobs that could and should go to Australians,” Mr Turnbull said.

Unlike the current visa arrangement, the replacement — a two year temporary visa specifically designed to recruit the “best and the brightest” in the national interest — will not allow permanent residency at its conclusion.

However, Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said the 95,000 people already in the country on a 457 work permit would be unaffected by the change and permitted to apply for residency.

“They will continue under the conditions of that visa,” Mr Dutton said.

The program will be replaced by another visa program, with new restrictions.

“It is important businesses still get access to the skills they need to grow and invest, so the 457 visa will be replaced by a new temporary visa, specifically designed to recruit the best and brightest in the national interest,” Mr Turnbull said.

But the announcement has been met with backlash, with many pointing out that less than 1 per cent of Australia’s 12 million strong workforce are on 457 visas.

The decision has been welcomed by employers but dismissed as “tinkering at the edges” by trade unions.

Unions NSW secretary Mark Morey dismissed the new arrangements, saying it’s unlikely there will be any real change.

“What we really need is a root and branch review, so that migrant exploitation and wage theft is properly tackled and Australian standards are both maintained and improved.”

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten slammed the plan.

“Make no mistake, the only job Malcolm Turnbull cares about saving is his own,” he tweeted.

Mr Turnbull said Mr Shorten, as employment minister in a Labor government, was the gold medal winner of issuing 457 visas.

“The fact is that Bill Shorten likes to talk about Australian jobs, but whenever he’s had the opportunity in government to protect them, he’s failed them.”

The Prime Minister maintained the change was about protecting the jobs of Australian workers.

“The fact remains Australian workers must have priority for Australian jobs,” he said.

Under the government’s plan the list of occupations that qualify for a temporary visa will be reduced from its current number of more than 200.

The visas will be limited to a two-year period that require previous work experience.

A second four-year visa will require a higher standard of English language skills as well as a proper criminal check.

The new system would be “manifestly, rigorously, resolutely” conducted in the national interest to put Australian jobs first, Mr Turnbull said.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton announce the changes on Tuesday Picture: Lukas Coch / AAP

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull and Immigration Minister Peter Dutton announce the changes on Tuesday Picture: Lukas Coch / AAPSource:AAP

WHAT IS A 457 VISA?

* The 457 visa program allows business to employ foreign workers for a period up to four years in skilled jobs where there is a shortage of Australian workers.

* The numbers are uncapped and there is no limit on the number of times they can travel in and out of Australia.

* Foreign workers can bring their families to work or study.

* Employers must apply to sponsor a 457 worker or enter into a formal labour agreement with the government.

* They must show they are training locals.

* As at September 30, 2016 there were 95,757 workers in Australia on primary 457 visas and 76,430 secondary visa holders (members of their family).

* But numbers are in decline — in March there was a 9.2 per cent drop in primary 457 visa holders compared to 2015.

* In July 2013 new laws came into effect, including giving Fair Work Australia the power to investigate breaches of the system.

* Labor called for jobs to be advertised locally for at least four weeks before a foreigner is sourced.

 

Surely no surprises that 'Turnbull turned the worm', in a matter of speaking? Although I expect the 'reforms' will not go far enough, namely window dressing in part, but an attempt by this dreadful government to 'silence' or at least steal the thunder of parties to the Right.

They have certainly learnt from abroad. (Be that Trump of the Brexit mob) as to how to rally the masses. Interestingly when Gillard brought to attention the abuses carried out under the scheme in 2013 she was shouted down by the big end of town and the Libs, not forgetting the Murdoch press for being racist and destructive of the economy.

Still who'd be surprised. The Lib's are floundering in the polls. The country is in a mess. Hence the old 'circle the wagons' and put Stralia First.

Hypocrisy at its finest. 

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39 minutes ago, imthedave said:

Adding onto my earlier post and reading through all the info on the Border website, I think I'm screwed now.

111111 CEO/Managing Director is on the combined list but not the medium term list. That means I can only apply for a maximum of 2 years upon renewal going through now.

Then, I can potentially renew again on shore once only.

However, any plans for PR look like their out the window.

The eligibility period is extending to 3 years. Even if it remained at 2 for now, my 2 year point is April 2018.

From March 2018, any applicant for PR must be of a maximum age of 45, by which time I'll be 47.

Also, against the 111111 code there are 3 asterisks with a description that says 'Caveats apply to certain occupations on these lists which exclude use of the occupation in certain circumstances for the Temporary Work (Skilled) visa (subclass 457) programme. Caveats are indicated via ‘*** asterisks’.'

It doesn't give any other detail what these caveats are so either I'm going to be able to get it renewed and then best case scenario, once more (unless they count this renewal now as my only onshore one) or I will be leaving in October when my current visa runs out.

I can't get any info from my MA about this. I'm so concerned. Only bought a house last year, daughter going to school, everything planned forward for the long term and it looks like its all going to be pulled out from under us.

The Corporate Group relocated me here to open up and run a local company because I have successfully done it in other countries, which I'm doing. I employ and train Australians, I pay my taxes both personally and in the company. I am a genuine case however with this age reduction, I honestly do not know what to do now

I thought you were recruiting 457's as well if recalling previous posts under the 'old name' rightly? Surely the onus on the 457 was to fill a position not readily available (after market testing) proved hard to fill within Australia? Most will be aware the regulations around market testing were relaxed considerably, but another subject. This being the case one can but wonder why such temporally visa holders are not required to 'educate/teach/show (however one wishes to describe it) locals on the ground here the ropes and then sent on to other pastures, in this wonderful globalised world economy, to further pass on their knowledge and so on and so forth.

Why should this visa be regarded as an entitlement? The purchasing of a house should matter not. In fact there is an argument that NG should not apply to temporally visa holders (should be done away with completely, but again another matter) For that matter one may well argue similar rules as for foreign students regulations in buying a property here. On departing the country the property 'must' be sold.

To my mind the whole idea that the 457 will likely be an entry to PR shows it is well past its day. Not that I think the 'changes' go much beyond window dressing and playing to the herd.

I do accept though that a number of people may well be caught out with possible negative consequences due to a far too lenient policy that went on far too long.  

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2 hours ago, Curious said:

Hi, does this also apply to those who are sponsored under an occupation that has been removed from the list?

Many thanks in advance

I did not ask that exact question as it is not applicable to my situation. However, in my opinion it would not be an issue. I say this because the material introducing these new lists stipulates that they are applicable specifically to future ENS 186 Direct Entry Stream applications, whereas the TRT stream is not mentioned.

I believe this is because the TRT stream would also be restructured/re-named for those after introduction of the new temporary visas in March 2018. By the sounds of it, in the meantime the TRT stream would remain governed under the previous rules for those already on a 457 visa (as by it’s nature it is exclusively for those already on 457 visas), due to this ‘grandfathering agreement’.

Please understand, I did not get this information from the Department, this is purely my opinion and speculation.

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2 hours ago, millski88 said:

*Update for Weds morning*

I just got off the phone with the Department. The rep told me there is no change to current 457 holders applying for 186 via the TRT stream.

Thank the lord.

cheers ✌?

My occupation is on the combine list now, not the medium list. And the worst of all, my two year point is Nov. 2018. Do you have any idea whether I'll be affected by the new rules? Thanks~

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Just now, EVELYN said:

My occupation is on the combine list now, not the medium list. And the worst of all, my two year point is Nov. 2018. Do you have any idea whether I'll be affected by the new rules? Thanks~

See above answer, and also - unfortunately no I don't, not exactly. I would refer to a migration lawyer/the Department by phone.

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7 minutes ago, millski88 said:

I did not ask that exact question as it is not applicable to my situation. However, in my opinion it would not be an issue. I say this because the material introducing these new lists stipulates that they are applicable specifically to future ENS 186 Direct Entry Stream applications, whereas the TRT stream is not mentioned.

I believe this is because the TRT stream would also be restructured/re-named for those after introduction of the new temporary visas in March 2018. By the sounds of it, in the meantime the TRT stream would remain governed under the previous rules for those already on a 457 visa (as by it’s nature it is exclusively for those already on 457 visas), due to this ‘grandfathering agreement’.

Please understand, I did not get this information from the Department, this is purely my opinion and speculation.

Thanks for your response!

I have contacted immigration and got a call back just now - they have confirmed your thoughts. She put me on hold and spoke to her manager and confirmed that the changes only refer to those wishing to enter via the direct entry scheme and not through transition to 186 - thank goodness for that, it was a sleepless night!

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1 minute ago, Pura Vida said:

I thought you were recruiting 457's as well if recalling previous posts under the 'old name' rightly? Surely the onus on the 457 was to fill a position not readily available (after market testing) proved hard to fill within Australia? Most will be aware the regulations around market testing were relaxed considerably, but another subject. This being the case one can but wonder why such temporally visa holders are not required to 'educate/teach/show (however one wishes to describe it) locals on the ground here the ropes and then sent on to other pastures, in this wonderful globalised world economy, to further pass on their knowledge and so on and so forth.

Why should this visa be regarded as an entitlement? The purchasing of a house should matter not. In fact there is an argument that NG should not apply to temporally visa holders (should be done away with completely, but again another matter) For that matter one may well argue similar rules as for foreign students regulations in buying a property here. On departing the country the property 'must' be sold.

To my mind the whole idea that the 457 will likely be an entry to PR shows it is well past its day. Not that I think the 'changes' go much beyond window dressing and playing to the herd.

I do accept though that a number of people may well be caught out with possible negative consequences due to a far too lenient policy that went on far too long.  

No. I am the only 457, sponsored by the company in the CEO position. My policy is to employ only Australians, which I do. That may be technically 'racist' but the conditions of the Company Sponsorship are to employ Australian citizens or Permanent Residents, provide investment into their training as a percentage of annual payroll etc

Also, it's our internal policies to ensure the local offices are supported by local people.

I'm personally a big supporter of developing young people so (through the company) I've invested in sponsoring local universities, taken on 2 young graduates (before they finished their studies) to develop into Engineers in our field, employed a number of other people who have all been on training courses here plus have all been sent back to Europe for company internal training.

We are a large but specialist technology company (Group) that open local subsidiaries around the world to support the market, develop local staff etc. The only non-Australian in the company is me.

I'm looking at the direct entry sponsorship now though. It seems that is still a possibility to get the Group to sponsor me for a 186 visa now rather than go via the transition scheme as I do meet the criteria.

 

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2 minutes ago, Curious said:

Thanks for your response!

I have contacted immigration and got a call back just now - they have confirmed your thoughts. She put me on hold and spoke to her manager and confirmed that the changes only refer to those wishing to enter via the direct entry scheme and not through transition to 186 - thank goodness for that, it was a sleepless night!

Great news! 

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