NHS is dying.

[simmo]

1 hour ago, newjez said:

So you think you were bad for Australia? 

No, but I notice Australia hasn't descended into a 3rd world hell hole since my departure either.

[newjez]

35 minutes ago, simmo said:

No, but I notice Australia hasn't descended into a 3rd world hell hole since my departure either.

Immigration is generally a good thing. UK immigration got out of hand because Europe was doing so badly and the UK was doing well. If Europe picks up over the next couple of years, come brexit we may have to actively recruit from Europe.

Hopefully we won't get into a situation like WA where immigration is becoming negative. Many people probably think this sounds great. It's not.

Edited April 26, 2017 by newjez

[simmo]

immigration or emigration can be good as long as it is controlled  

[Perthbum]

16 hours ago, simmo said:

Some very flakey research by the UCL and reported by the hysterically europhile FT so some clarity below.

That said, no one is saying that a lot of EU(and other) migrants bring benefits to our economy.  Those that do will be simply be able to apply for visas those that don't will have to go.  

Far right "migration watch" is your argument......lmfaq

Edited April 26, 2017 by Perthbum

[Perthbum]

19 hours ago, newjez said:

Why did you vote for brexit?

did I?

[simmo]

2 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

Far right "migration watch" is your argument......lmfaq

it's an independant think tank.

[Perthbum]

Just now, simmo said:

it's an independant think tank.

ERRRRR ok

[Perthbum]

MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a very right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia. David Coleman, Professor of Demography at Oxford University, is an honorary consultant.

[simmo]

7 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

MigrationWatch UK is an immigration and asylum research organisation and think-tank, which describes itself as independent and non-political, but which has been characterised by some commentators and academics as a very right-wing pressure group. It was founded and is chaired by Lord Green of Deddington, a former British ambassador to Saudi Arabia. David Coleman, Professor of Demography at Oxford University, is an honorary consultant.

"Since its formation in September 2008 we have provided research for the Cross Party Group on Balanced Migration led by Frank Field MP (Labour) 

[Perthbum]

1 minute ago, simmo said:

"Since its formation in September 2008 we have provided research for the Cross Party Group on Balanced Migration led by Frank Field MP (Labour) 

OK    

[simmo]

5 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

OK    

you're welcome

[BacktoDemocracy]

18 minutes ago, simmo said:

"Since its formation in September 2008 we have provided research for the Cross Party Group on Balanced Migration led by Frank Field MP (Labour) 

Have those statistics ever been quoted in a report by that Group or been used as the basis for policy by them.

 

[simmo]

11 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

Have those statistics ever been quoted in a report by that Group or been used as the basis for policy by them.

 

What?

[newjez]

42 minutes ago, Perthbum said:

did I?

You've spent the last six months defending it. It would be odd if you hadn't.

[Johndoe]

1 hour ago, newjez said:

You've spent the last six months defending it. It would be odd if you hadn't.

Just as he spent most of his time on the forum, under various guises, telling us that the NHS is the finest health service in the world and is the envy of all. It's only very recently that he's decided to use it as a stick to beat his "nasty party" with. Seems that he goes with whichever way the wind blows

[Perthbum]

21 minutes ago, Johndoe said:

Just as he spent most of his time on the forum, under various guises, telling us that the NHS is the finest health service in the world and is the envy of all. It's only very recently that he's decided to use it as a stick to beat his "nasty party" with. Seems that he goes with whichever way the wind blows

I quoted a report and study that for the money spent per head the NHS was the best in Europe, I did not personally say it was the best..try and keep up old fella 

[Johndoe]

3 hours ago, Perthbum said:

I quoted a report and study that for the money spent per head the NHS was the best in Europe, I did not personally say it was the best..try and keep up old fella 

Dunno about the best in Europe but you argued at length, with several members, with regards to the best in the World if I remember correctly and that the report somehow had some validity even though it had only considered 11 countries. As is normally the case when you're on thin ice in a thread, you also failed to respond to those who asked you if the report could be considered valid when only 11 countries were considered

My kids learned at an early age in school and uni that if you are supporting an argument with the results of a study, then you must also show that said study had some validity otherwise your arguments ceased to be valid and you would be better served not quoting said study. If on the other hand, you were using it to "stir the pot" and not bothered with the consequence  of looking like a fool then I guess some fools would take the risk.

[BacktoDemocracy]

10 hours ago, simmo said:

What?

You can produce whatever statistics you like and provide them to Parliamentary committees but they only have validity, surely, if they are used by the committee to base decisions on or are published as part of a committee report, I can provide a view to a committee but that doesn't make it a valid one.

[Rallyman]

14 hours ago, newjez said:

So if the UK has the same level of immigration as Australia, but it's controlled, then that would be OK?

It has to be controlled you can't have a open broader policy , you are not comparing apples with apples , the uk has a population of around 67 million on a land mass roughly 30 times smaller than Australia , 

As you know there is a housing shortage in the uk which has been discussed before with more and more green belt being taken something has to give.

Why don't you think that controlled immigration is not ok ? 

 

 

[BacktoDemocracy]

38 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

It has to be controlled you can't have a open broader policy , you are not comparing apples with apples , the uk has a population of around 67 million on a land mass roughly 30 times smaller than Australia , 

As you know there is a housing shortage in the uk which has been discussed before with more and more green belt being taken something has to give.

Why don't you think that controlled immigration is not ok ? 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Rallyman said:

It really won't matter if you have a giant bureaucracy  checking and giving visas, the UK will still need the labour and all you will have is a load of extra costs and still the same levels of immmigration.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy

[Rallyman]

35 minutes ago, BacktoDemocracy said:

 

 

 

Are you being serious? 

[Perthbum]

7 hours ago, Johndoe said:

Dunno about the best in Europe but you argued at length, with several members, with regards to the best in the World if I remember correctly and that the report somehow had some validity even though it had only considered 11 countries. As is normally the case when you're on thin ice in a thread, you also failed to respond to those who asked you if the report could be considered valid when only 11 countries were considered

My kids learned at an early age in school and uni that if you are supporting an argument with the results of a study, then you must also show that said study had some validity otherwise your arguments ceased to be valid and you would be better served not quoting said study. If on the other hand, you were using it to "stir the pot" and not bothered with the consequence  of looking like a fool then I guess some fools would take the risk.

 

 

You seem to get away with it.

 

[newjez]

3 hours ago, Rallyman said:

It has to be controlled you can't have a open broader policy , you are not comparing apples with apples , the uk has a population of around 67 million on a land mass roughly 30 times smaller than Australia , 

As you know there is a housing shortage in the uk which has been discussed before with more and more green belt being taken something has to give.

Why don't you think that controlled immigration is not ok ? 

 

 

Because government is inefficient and too slow to react. Much better to let the market decide. If you can get a job, you are allowed to emigrate.

Landmass is largely irrelevant. It's a matter of putting the infrastructure where the people need it. As can be seen from WA, forecasting that even with controlled immigration isn't easy.

Edited April 27, 2017 by newjez

[Bound4Tassie]

Getting back to the NHS..... Did anyone watch 'Confessions of a junior Doctor'? NHS looks pretty broken to me!

[BacktoDemocracy]

51 minutes ago, Bound4Tassie said:

Getting back to the NHS..... Did anyone watch 'Confessions of a junior Doctor'? NHS looks pretty broken to me!

No I didn't watch it, I can't bear any longer to see the state it is in and the state staff are in after watching the smug supercilious Hunt stand there telling everyone how well it's doing, hanging, drawing and quartering is too good for him.