Guest Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 NHS workers are trying to be heard. https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/24/nhs-workers-spoken-general-election-chance-saving-health-service-tweets/ Twitter hashtag https://twitter.com/hashtag/publicduty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I've taken out private cover. Problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest263228 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 On 1/04/2017 at 6:13 PM, Sunset said: Wheels are a wobbling no room inside and no cash flowing in from outside anymore raising taxes will not work the uk needs an Australian styled health care system You refer to a system where premiums rise above inflation every year? Where people are increasingly asking where is the value for money? Where large gaps are the norm, so much so that some don't declare private insurance, in order to save money. A system where like UK, waiting lists get longer and outcomes far from guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pura Vida said: You refer to a system where premiums rise above inflation every year? Where people are increasingly asking where is the value for money? Where large gaps are the norm, so much so that some don't declare private insurance, in order to save money. A system where like UK, waiting lists get longer and outcomes far from guaranteed. I don't think we are moving towards an Australian system. I think they are actually going to privatise the NHS. Just as they did the railways. But they will do it slowly. You won't even know it is happening. They will tender various components to private companies. Edited April 25, 2017 by newjez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, newjez said: I don't think we are moving towards an Australian system. I think they are actually going to privatise the NHS. Just as they did the railways. But they will do it slowly. You won't even know it is happening. They will tender various components to private companies. They are so far down the track doing that already. Its been going on for years. Hospitals are built and run by private companies, contracts go out for tender and pretty much everything that used to be under the one roof on site overseen by hospital managers is now overseen by companies from all over the place who send their contractors in to do the jobs. Its big business. Same as so many things these days, contract the work out. My father works at a hospital and it was built by one company who ran it for a while, then it was handed over to another to run (contract came up for tender and went elsewhere) who then contracted out various aspects of its running and day to day stuff to other companies to cover. So something like maintenance is provided by a firm based 200 miles away who employs a local contractor to go in and do any work as and when. Its far from ideal and the company overseeing the maintenance has no end of these contracts at hospitals and other places. Some hospitals will have a permanent employee employed by the contracting company but its a big machine and people get moved round or the jobs simply passed on. Bottom line for my father is he is choosing to retire rather than continue for a few more years. The NHS he has worked in for many years is no more and the changes are not for the better he feels and the system is falling apart and he no longer wants to continue within it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, snifter said: They are so far down the track doing that already. Its been going on for years. Hospitals are built and run by private companies, contracts go out for tender and pretty much everything that used to be under the one roof on site overseen by hospital managers is now overseen by companies from all over the place who send their contractors in to do the jobs. Its big business. Same as so many things these days, contract the work out. My father works at a hospital and it was built by one company who ran it for a while, then it was handed over to another to run (contract came up for tender and went elsewhere) who then contracted out various aspects of its running and day to day stuff to other companies to cover. So something like maintenance is provided by a firm based 200 miles away who employs a local contractor to go in and do any work as and when. Its far from ideal and the company overseeing the maintenance has no end of these contracts at hospitals and other places. Some hospitals will have a permanent employee employed by the contracting company but its a big machine and people get moved round or the jobs simply passed on. Bottom line for my father is he is choosing to retire rather than continue for a few more years. The NHS he has worked in for many years is no more and the changes are not for the better he feels and the system is falling apart and he no longer wants to continue within it. Its normal for the builder to take on O&M of a building (lifts, CHP, plant rooms....) for the defects period before handing over to the client. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlight7 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Most services go to pot once they become privatised. Telstra, electric and gas companies here, for example. They are in it for the money, not to help people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 On 4/1/2017 at 8:37 AM, Perthbum said: The uk has the lowest funding per person of almost all of europe, they all spend more on their health care per person than the uk do. The tories need to raise taxes or NI to fund it better, And we have the lowest ratio of doctors to patients, the lowest ratio of beds to patients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, snifter said: They are so far down the track doing that already. Its been going on for years. Hospitals are built and run by private companies, contracts go out for tender and pretty much everything that used to be under the one roof on site overseen by hospital managers is now overseen by companies from all over the place who send their contractors in to do the jobs. Its big business. Same as so many things these days, contract the work out. My father works at a hospital and it was built by one company who ran it for a while, then it was handed over to another to run (contract came up for tender and went elsewhere) who then contracted out various aspects of its running and day to day stuff to other companies to cover. So something like maintenance is provided by a firm based 200 miles away who employs a local contractor to go in and do any work as and when. Its far from ideal and the company overseeing the maintenance has no end of these contracts at hospitals and other places. Some hospitals will have a permanent employee employed by the contracting company but its a big machine and people get moved round or the jobs simply passed on. Bottom line for my father is he is choosing to retire rather than continue for a few more years. The NHS he has worked in for many years is no more and the changes are not for the better he feels and the system is falling apart and he no longer wants to continue within it. There is also the fact that increasingly private hospitals run by big business are already undertaking elective surgery for NHS hospitals and charging much higher rates for the work so stripping further money out of the NHS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 3 hours ago, snifter said: They are so far down the track doing that already. Its been going on for years. Hospitals are built and run by private companies, contracts go out for tender and pretty much everything that used to be under the one roof on site overseen by hospital managers is now overseen by companies from all over the place who send their contractors in to do the jobs. Its big business. Same as so many things these days, contract the work out. My father works at a hospital and it was built by one company who ran it for a while, then it was handed over to another to run (contract came up for tender and went elsewhere) who then contracted out various aspects of its running and day to day stuff to other companies to cover. So something like maintenance is provided by a firm based 200 miles away who employs a local contractor to go in and do any work as and when. Its far from ideal and the company overseeing the maintenance has no end of these contracts at hospitals and other places. Some hospitals will have a permanent employee employed by the contracting company but its a big machine and people get moved round or the jobs simply passed on. Bottom line for my father is he is choosing to retire rather than continue for a few more years. The NHS he has worked in for many years is no more and the changes are not for the better he feels and the system is falling apart and he no longer wants to continue within it. Mitie seem to be favourite, the key is that the contractor makes the decision about the work required, how to do it and when to do it, not the client hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, snifter said: NHS workers are trying to be heard. https://www.thecanary.co/2017/04/24/nhs-workers-spoken-general-election-chance-saving-health-service-tweets/ Twitter hashtag https://twitter.com/hashtag/publicduty What I fail to understand is the mindset of p3eople who just continue to say everything is fine in public services like the NHS and education when every bit of factual information points to the contrary,do they really believe that everybody working in these services are just lazy, self serving, work shy bludgers and all that's needed is a good dose of profit orientated management to sort them all out, even as they are told that there is no further savings to be made. Where did this mantra " public bad, private good " come from, you only have to look at the USA, lowest levels of literacy and numeracy in the west, poorest health provision in the west in terms of cost, outcomes, cases of negligence and access for all its citizen's to realise that the only beneficiaries out of that mantra are private profit making companies. Edited April 25, 2017 by BacktoDemocracy 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perthbum Posted April 25, 2017 Author Share Posted April 25, 2017 On 03/04/2017 at 9:44 AM, simmo said: Rubbish EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Perthbum said: EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 Why did you vote for brexit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest263228 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 21 hours ago, newjez said: I don't think we are moving towards an Australian system. I think they are actually going to privatise the NHS. Just as they did the railways. But they will do it slowly. You won't even know it is happening. They will tender various components to private companies. I'm sure rising costs will awake people to changes. Falling standards certainly will. May well be all too late. Not to dissimilar from British Rail though, I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Perthbum said: EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0 Some very flakey research by the UCL and reported by the hysterically europhile FT so some clarity below. Quote 8. There have been press reports to the effect that immigrants pay more in tax than they claim in benefits. But this is to ignore the wider costs such as health, education and the additional infrastructure required such as housing stock, roads etc. Including these elements gives the overall fiscal contribution of migrants. In 2014 the net fiscal cost of all migrants in the UK was £17 billion (For more on this see our Economics overview here). 9. Large amounts are paid out in benefits. In 2013/14 a total of £4.14 billion was paid in working age benefits to EEA and Swiss nationals (excluding families with any UK nationals). Breaking this down, £2.273 billion was paid in tax credits and housing benefit to in-work claimants and £1.157 billion was paid to out-of-work claimants. An additional £714 million was paid in child benefit to EEA nationals. 10. Of course, there is a wide variation across different groups with East Europeans more likely and West Europeans less likely than the UK born to claim benefits. That said, no one is saying that a lot of EU(and other) migrants bring benefits to our economy. Those that do will be simply be able to apply for visas those that don't will have to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Pura Vida said: I'm sure rising costs will awake people to changes. Falling standards certainly will. May well be all too late. Not to dissimilar from British Rail though, I suspect. Can you not hear people complaining about falling standards? We are being told the government has protected spending on NHS and schools, but they both claim insufficient funding. Rising costs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest263228 Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 1 hour ago, newjez said: Can you not hear people complaining about falling standards? We are being told the government has protected spending on NHS and schools, but they both claim insufficient funding. Rising costs? Yes I can. But the fall has far to go yet, I suspect. In reality I wonder if the government is wishing 'death by a thousand cuts' by clouding the waters, with regards to funding on the matter. I mean they would hardly ensure adequate funding, if as suspected, privatisation was the end game, would they? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 4 hours ago, simmo said: Some very flakey research by the UCL and reported by the hysterically europhile FT so some clarity below. That said, no one is saying that a lot of EU(and other) migrants bring benefits to our economy. Those that do will be simply be able to apply for visas those that don't will have to go. I still don't get why immigration is good for Australia but bad for the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieGirl Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 On Tuesday, April 25, 2017 at 3:44 AM, newjez said: I've taken out private cover. Problem solved. Who with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallyman Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 26 minutes ago, newjez said: I still don't get why immigration is good for Australia but bad for the UK. It's controlled in Australia having open boarders is not the answer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoDemocracy Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 5 hours ago, simmo said: Some very flakey research by the UCL and reported by the hysterically europhile FT so some clarity below. That said, no one is saying that a lot of EU(and other) migrants bring benefits to our economy. Those that do will be simply be able to apply for visas those that don't will have to go. I would say this paper presents facts in such way that it is all the fault of migration a figure of 17 bn is plucked out of the air, of the other benefits all, except out of work benefits were paid to WORKERS and would have been paid whether they were migrants or not because the work they were doing was so badly paid that they were dependent on benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 2 hours ago, newjez said: I still don't get why immigration is good for Australia but bad for the UK. I never said either of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 8 hours ago, ScottieGirl said: Who with? Bupa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 8 hours ago, Rallyman said: It's controlled in Australia having open boarders is not the answer So if the UK has the same level of immigration as Australia, but it's controlled, then that would be OK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newjez Posted April 26, 2017 Share Posted April 26, 2017 6 hours ago, simmo said: I never said either of those. So you think you were bad for Australia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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