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    1 hour ago, Rallyman said:

    Very interesting , basically what has been said by a few on here , German car industrie need it sorting they can not afford to lose the uk market , the loss of 18,000 jobs , I experienced nearly double that when the local steel works closed back in 79 in one area , it has never fully recovered 

    Like you, I believe the best hope for avoiding ‘no deal’ is pressure from big business and multinationals however I still cannot see how either side can back down on the free movement principle given how the UK got to the point of voting to leave.  The EU in particular has been steadfast on this principle for very good reason and no way could provide the UK with a concession on this that was not available to their own members nor any other country they trade with.


    Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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    20 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

    Like you, I believe the best hope for avoiding ‘no deal’ is pressure from big business and multinationals however I still cannot see how either side can back down on the free movement principle given how the UK got to the point of voting to leave.  The EU in particular has been steadfast on this principle for very good reason and no way could provide the UK with a concession on this that was not available to their own members nor any other country they trade with.

    The eu have big problems with the free movement as we see a number of member states refusing point blank to accept refugees , the remarks coming  from Brussels is quite alarming to me regarding , a eu army , a combined president and chief comisioner ( I think I have that correct ) which tony Blair is lining himself up for !, we akready have the   Currency it's going to be a super power which nobody will be able to vote who is actually in charge , I can't see this ending well far too many diffrent beliefs and cultures as others have said Europe is great but the eu is not 

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    1 hour ago, Rallyman said:

    The eu have big problems with the free movement as we see a number of member states refusing point blank to accept refugees , the remarks coming  from Brussels is quite alarming to me regarding , a eu army , a combined president and chief comisioner ( I think I have that correct ) which tony Blair is lining himself up for !, we akready have the   Currency it's going to be a super power which nobody will be able to vote who is actually in charge , I can't see this ending well far too many diffrent beliefs and cultures as others have said Europe is great but the eu is not 

    UKIP cleverly conflated the free movement of EU citizens with the refugee crisis and it is clearly stuck in the psyche.  Refugees do not have free movement within the EU.  Whilst not all 27 EU states are uniformly happy about free movement of citizens it is a guiding principle of the single market which all 27 are behind.

    The UK simply will not retain access to the single market without being bound by that abiding principle and I cannot envisage the Tories, in particular, agreeing to that however much big business huffs and puffs.  Far more likely a hard Brexit with a slashed Corporate tax rate to prevent an exodus and boost the stock market.  How the UK affords massive tax cuts though in an age of austerity is another big question.

    The negotiations sound like a charade at the moment with both sides currently ignoring the elephant in the room that is free movement of EU citizens.

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    Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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    A market that takes 1/5th of their production is 'small beer' and easily absorbed ? OK then lol


    1/5 is not a lot. Good business is by nature flexible in a good economy, but if there is economic uncertainty short to mid term, they will look elsewhere, if the return on UK investment turns out to be a lemon. Nothing is guaranteed. Whatever the politicians might have you believe. It's never a done deal till we've properly turned the corner and only if things are consistently looking up (5-10 years).

    It's not scary, it's just fact. Anyone who says it's all going to be fine, presumably signs up to the possibility that it could go either way, be tough, but in the long run things will improve right? So where's the alleged scare mongering?

    Some are happy to take any potential hit on the chin, others not do much....


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    Or of course the whole dodgy process is revoked to prevent economic disaster, with some minor concession agreed upon, to at least save a little British face.

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    2 hours ago, Pura Vida said:

    Or of course the whole dodgy process is revoked to prevent economic disaster, with some minor concession agreed upon, to at least save a little British face.

    A:  not one scrap of evidence that the UK will suffer economic disaster

    B: d52bf0cbf555de48fa11a7567be4dec7.png.07ccad0f60272f160c5e0a61aed8cff3.png

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    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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    2 hours ago, amibovered said:

    That is exactly my earlier point.  Nobody is even mentioning the free movement of EU and UK citizens.


    Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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    4 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

    That is exactly my earlier point.  Nobody is even mentioning the free movement of EU and UK citizens.

    Because to EU only want to discuss money, and the UK are hardly likely to make any firm commitment until they know what they'll be getting in return. 


    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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    14 hours ago, Gbye grey sky said:

    Interesting.....though produced by a think tank who are avowedly pro-single market.  The numbers quoted sound very extreme.  Whilst a 10% tariff cannot be good the German car exporters have survived a near 20% fall in the value of sterling already.

    The UK consumer will face significantly higher prices on new cars whatever their origin.  Even UK manufacturers will be dealing with the effect of the devalued pound and import tariffs on components.  They will benefit on exports but domestically cars will have to cost more.

    Well every study or link posted in these pages has been by someone that leans one way or the other. 

    Whether we will face significantly higher prices on new cars whatever their origin remains to be seen to be honest, it's all conjecture and guesswork at this stage. I have gone are all the horror stories over the last year or so, none have eventuated and I don't see why this will. The manufacturers find a way around it. Look at the US, they pay significantly less for most cars than the rest of the world, it's not because they pay less tax, it's just that amazingly car companies are able to somehow sell to them cheaper. 


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    6 hours ago, ssiri said:

     


    1/5 is not a lot. Good business is by nature flexible in a good economy, but if there is economic uncertainty short to mid term, they will look elsewhere, if the return on UK investment turns out to be a lemon. Nothing is guaranteed. Whatever the politicians might have you believe. It's never a done deal till we've properly turned the corner and only if things are consistently looking up (5-10 years).

    It's not scary, it's just fact. Anyone who says it's all going to be fine, presumably signs up to the possibility that it could go either way, be tough, but in the long run things will improve right? So where's the alleged scare mongering?

    Some are happy to take any potential hit on the chin, others not do much....


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    1/5 th of total output us not a lot, you can't seriously think that lol


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    3 hours ago, amibovered said:

    A:  not one scrap of evidence that the UK will suffer economic disaster

    B: d52bf0cbf555de48fa11a7567be4dec7.png.07ccad0f60272f160c5e0a61aed8cff3.png

    Exactly, no one credible has shown even the slightest evidence that the UK will suffer economic disaster. Its all been scaremongering and speculation. 

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    Part time insomniac.

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    3 hours ago, amibovered said:

    This hit the nail on the head, shat many of us have been saying.

    Anders Vistisen, a Danish Eurosceptic MEP and vice-chair of the EU Parliament's foreign affairs committee, agreed, adding: "The most integral thing is the future relationship. If we are making a bad trade deal for Britain we are also hurting ourselves."

    To believe that a bad trade deal will only hurt us and that the companies that have built up huge amounts of trade with us will just sell their stuff elsewhere is just ridiculous. 


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    This is the way I see it, we want to leave the club which is quite reasonable really, the club's comittee want us to pay them £10,000 for the privilege of leaving the club. On top of that the comittee want all of their friends and their friends families to be able to come around to our house totally uninvited any time of the day or night. On top of that we must pay the club loads of money to be able to buy their friends stuff or to sell stuff to their friends even though it benefits both sides. On top of that we can't go looking for new friends until the comittee gives us permission. I'm not sure I like this club really. 


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    5 hours ago, amibovered said:

    A:  not one scrap of evidence that the UK will suffer economic disaster

    B: d52bf0cbf555de48fa11a7567be4dec7.png.07ccad0f60272f160c5e0a61aed8cff3.png

    Even (remainder) May when questioned refused to say she would vote Brexit. Simply reason being because she doesn't. I think you know full well the vote was built around fabrications. If you English really want to leave ....walk then. Do a hard Brexit. See where it gets you.

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    5 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

     I think you know full well the vote was built around fabrications.

    On both sides,.

    of course May won't say, she'd alienate too many people , whatever her answer.

    Hard or soft Brexit? that's not up to me, or the UK, it depends if the EU wants to cut off its nose to spite its face 

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    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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    18 minutes ago, Pura Vida said:

    Even (remainder) May when questioned refused to say she would vote Brexit. Simply reason being because she doesn't. I think you know full well the vote was built around fabrications. If you English really want to leave ....walk then. Do a hard Brexit. See where it gets you.

    I take it by this statement that you are not a citizen and not entitled to vote, so if this is the case why are you so concerned ? 

    Its all getting a bit much when people who have no right to vote are telling you what you should and should not be doing 

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    39 minutes ago, amibovered said:

    Because to EU only want to discuss money, and the UK are hardly likely to make any firm commitment until they know what they'll be getting in return. 

    That is fair enough.  I understood that the money was to fund ongoing costs and initiatives that the UK had signed up for.  I can see why the EU would therefore not want an agreed payment to be used as a bargaining chip in the negotiations but I can equally see why the UK would (given that the UK holds fewer cards and this is a valuable one).

    It serves to illustrate how far apart both sides are going to be......and the thorny issue of free movement of EU and UK citizens is well and truly on the back-burner poised to kill the negotiations entirely next year.


    Timeline: 309/100 Sent 7/8/13, Money Taken 9/8/13, CO appointed 3/9/13. Med 3/12/13. Police check 4/12/13. VISA GRANTED 8/4/14, Subclass100. Recce August 2014. Arrived 30 July 2015.

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    Politicians are all the same they line their own pockets and lie every time they open their mouths .The slimy b#####ds


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    39 minutes ago, Gbye grey sky said:

    That is fair enough.  I understood that the money was to fund ongoing costs and initiatives that the UK had signed up for.  I can see why the EU would therefore not want an agreed payment to be used as a bargaining chip in the negotiations but I can equally see why the UK would (given that the UK holds fewer cards and this is a valuable one).

    It serves to illustrate how far apart both sides are going to be......and the thorny issue of free movement of EU and UK citizens is well and truly on the back-burner poised to kill the negotiations entirely next year.

    Well, I think the UK should pay it's obligations, no two ways  about that. and there will probably be other programs that we may wish to participate in,

    it may be it would be advantageous to make other payments depending on the arrangement we come to with the EU, but how can that be agreed in advance when we don't  know what that will be, I can't see why the talks on payment and trading can't go on at the same time.

    Edited by amibovered

    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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    On freedom of movement, I'm not too worried about that TBH, but clearly a lot are, so something will have to be done, hopefully a compromise can be reached!!


    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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    5 minutes ago, amibovered said:

    Well, I think the UK should pay it's obligations, no two ways  about that. and there will probably be other programs that we may wish to participate in,

    it may be it would be advantageous to make other payments depending on the arrangement we come to with the EU, but how can that be agreed in advance when we don't  know what that will be, I can't see why the talks on payment and trading can't go on at the same time.

    Absolutely, if there are obligations we entered into and will continue to be of benefit when we leave then we must pay what is owed. What I don't agree with is paying some sort of divorce settlement. 

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    Part time insomniac.

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    4 minutes ago, amibovered said:

    On freedom of movement, I'm not too worried about that TBH, but clearly a lot are, so something will have to be done, hopefully a compromise can be reached!!

    I'm still very much in favour of us having control over who enters the country and believe every country should have that right. 

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    Part time insomniac.

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    29 minutes ago, bristolman said:

    I'm still very much in favour of us having control over who enters the country and believe every country should have that right. 

    That's fair enough, I like the idea of having people from other European nations living with us, in part, just because I like meeting people from different traditions, but also I think it helps to foster understanding between people, however clearly a lot of people would prefer a more restrictive immigration policy, and I would never wish that to be ignored just because it's different to my own point of view, that's how democracy works, let's hope the powers that be can work something out.     

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    Jeremy Corbyn on the EU  " A European bureaucracy totally unaccountable to anybody"

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