trump takes britain

[Gbye grey sky]

It may have been 2% but it may as well have been 48% because it is a majority and that's how democracy works winners win and losers lose.

 

We are living in a new world now.

 

No point stamping your feet anymore, the days of the tail wagging the dog are over - too late now.

 

Its tragic really that there are people who think that by simply voting Leave last year they have got control of their country. I wonder when reality will kick in.

[BacktoDemocracy]

Its tragic really that there are people who think that by simply voting Leave last year they have got control of their country. I wonder when reality will kick in.

As always a very clear analysis and comment.

[bunbury61]

sadly we're not talking about the duck. But it does rhyme.

 

You should be over it ,but there still seems to be sour grapes .

ITS CALLED DEMOCRACY .

MOVE ON .

If we had voted remain ,I would have been very disappointed for our long term future under a German controlled Europe .

Unlimited immigration into the u.k .

Managed by a failing organisation.

Italian banks about to go bust and the cost to the u.k economy .

What would the u.k s population be in 20 years within the e.u .

 

I hear peoples concerns everyday in the West midlands .

Councils in poor areas ,forced to take 800 new children from the e.u this year ,and every year .

That's ONE COUNCIL .

That's the housing ,schools and nhs that goes with it ....and growing .

WHO PAYS FOR ALL THIS ?...THE HOUSING ,THE NHS ,THE SCHOOL PLACES ?

Thank god we are leaving

 

LOVE EUROPE ...**** THE E.U

[newjez]

You should be over it ,but there still seems to be sour grapes .

ITS CALLED DEMOCRACY .

MOVE ON .

If we had voted remain ,I would have been very disappointed for our long term future under a German controlled Europe .

Unlimited immigration into the u.k .

Managed by a failing organisation.

Italian banks about to go bust and the cost to the u.k economy .

What would the u.k s population be in 20 years within the e.u .

 

I hear peoples concerns everyday in the West midlands .

Councils in poor areas ,forced to take 800 new children from the e.u this year ,and every year .

That's ONE COUNCIL .

That's the housing ,schools and nhs that goes with it ....and growing .

WHO PAYS FOR ALL THIS ?...THE HOUSING ,THE NHS ,THE SCHOOL PLACES ?

Thank god we are leaving

 

LOVE EUROPE ...**** THE E.U

we were talking about Trump. But as you can't leave brexit alone, I'm not against leaving the EU as long as it's done sensibly. But most of what you mention above has nothing to do with brexit. Brexit has nothing to do with immigration, and there is no need for brexit to lower immigration. Read her words. She wants control of immigration. If you have control of a tap, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will turn it off. The Tories love immigration. It makes them rich. Of course they could divert the money from immigration to those bearing the cost. But why would they do that. Those people vote labour. Edited January 19, 2017 by newjez

[Gbye grey sky]

we were talking about Trump. But as you can't leave brexit alone, I'm not against leaving the EU as long as it's done sensibly. But most of what you mention above has nothing to do with brexit. Brexit has nothing to do with immigration, and there is no need for brexit to lower immigration. Read her words. She wants control of immigration. If you have control of a tap, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will turn it off. The Tories love immigration. It makes them rich. Of course they could divert the money from immigration to those bearing the cost. But why would they do that. Those people vote labour.

 

The only sure way to reduce immigration is to devalue the currency, increase unemployment and put the economy into recession. Then more working people will want to leave the UK rather than come. Step 1 has been accomplished before even invoking Article 50.

 

Nobody wants to see Steps 2/3 so May and her Ministers will be looking at what is necessary to avoid this. The Tory way is to encourage businesses to stay in the UK and even to relocate to the UK by means of tax incentives. Looks like the negotiations may take the form of a game of chicken with each assessing who will be the least damaged in a trade war.

 

Still hope that this divorce can be amicable, though few divorces are (especially when stakes are high).

 

How this all ultimately benefits everyone else I look forward to seeing. Glad I am here but wish my pensions were here with me rather than stuck in the UK.

[bunbury61]

we were talking about Trump. But as you can't leave brexit alone, I'm not against leaving the EU as long as it's done sensibly. But most of what you mention above has nothing to do with brexit. Brexit has nothing to do with immigration, and there is no need for brexit to lower immigration. Read her words. She wants control of immigration. If you have control of a tap, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will turn it off. The Tories love immigration. It makes them rich. Of course they could divert the money from immigration to those bearing the cost. But why would they do that. Those people vote labour.

 

They have to turn the tap off as you describe it ..or eventually services will collapse and there will be major civil disorder .

By the way I can leave brexit alone ,I voted for it ....and for trump .

[bunbury61]

The only sure way to reduce immigration is to devalue the currency, increase unemployment and put the economy into recession. Then more working people will want to leave the UK rather than come. Step 1 has been accomplished before even invoking Article 50.

 

Nobody wants to see Steps 2/3 so May and her Ministers will be looking at what is necessary to avoid this. The Tory way is to encourage businesses to stay in the UK and even to relocate to the UK by means of tax incentives. Looks like the negotiations may take the form of a game of chicken with each assessing who will be the least damaged in a trade war.

 

Still hope that this divorce can be amicable, though few divorces are (especially when stakes are high).

 

How this all ultimately benefits everyone else I look forward to seeing. Glad I am here but wish my pensions were here with me rather than stuck in the UK.

So you can see what is happening in the u.k ,and still hold these " bonkers " ideas .

Immigration since the 2nd world war ,is just something that has gooten out of control .

The tories encouraged it to service business ,and now cant control it .

And labour ,massively encouraged by opening the door ,to change the voting demographic .

For ever action ,there is a reaction .

What we have is a quiet rise in English nationalism of sorts ,through the ballot box .

What is going on in the u.k is UNSUSTAINABLE.

[newjez]

So you can see what is happening in the u.k ,and still hold these " bonkers " ideas .

Immigration since the 2nd world war ,is just something that has gooten out of control .

The tories encouraged it to service business ,and now cant control it .

And labour ,massively encouraged by opening the door ,to change the voting demographic .

For ever action ,there is a reaction .

What we have is a quiet rise in English nationalism of sorts ,through the ballot box .

What is going on in the u.k is UNSUSTAINABLE.

well, you have hit the nail on the head. But it's not immigration. It's a top heavy aging population. That is the real problem we face. Immigration is just a way of dealing with that. If you try and take immigration away you will either fail, or you will be facing the problems of an aging population, which are a failing NHS etc etc.

 

You are not trying to cure the disease. What you are doing is removing the treatment. The disease will continue unabated and the country will die.

 

As always, prophecy is self fulfilling. A failed NHS will solve the aging population problem, as the old will be dieing in the streets with no medical or care.

 

When it comes down to it, you effectively have a choice between immigration and privatisation of the NHS where we make wealthy pensioners pay through the nose. That is the choice you have made.

Edited January 20, 2017 by newjez

[bunbury61]

well, you have hit the nail on the head. But it's not immigration. It's a top heavy aging population. That is the real problem we face. Immigration is just a way of dealing with that. If you try and take immigration away you will either fail, or you will be facing the problems of an aging population, which are a failing NHS etc etc.

 

You are not trying to cure the disease. What you are doing is removing the treatment. The disease will continue unabated and the country will die.

 

As always, prophecy is self fulfilling. A failed NHS will solve the aging population problem, as the old will be dieing in the streets with no medical or care.

 

When it comes down to it, you effectively have a choice between immigration and privatisation of the NHS where we make wealthy pensioners pay through the nose. That is the choice you have made.

 

I ain't made any choice other than brexit ...an population my arse ...what we have is OVER POPULATION ,especially in the urban areas .

Did you read my clip about a local borough that is advertising fir language specialists due to the influx of 800 e.u children per year .

I don't doubt ,we have an aging population ,and I don't profess to be able to argue over cash shortages for the nhs .

But the main issue for all the stretching of services across the board ,is massive unnatural population rise .

You may not see it on the south coast ,but its real here in the west miss.

[amibovered]

Well the failure of left wing politics has reached it's inevitable conclusion, who next? Le Pen, Wilders, Petry. someone else?

[newjez]

 

Well the failure of left wing politics has reached it's inevitable conclusion, who next? Le Pen, Wilders, Petry. someone else?

the only left wing government I've witnessed in my lifetime was the Whitlam govt. What left wing government are you on about?

[newjez]

I ain't made any choice other than brexit ...an population my arse ...what we have is OVER POPULATION ,especially in the urban areas .

Did you read my clip about a local borough that is advertising fir language specialists due to the influx of 800 e.u children per year .

I don't doubt ,we have an aging population ,and I don't profess to be able to argue over cash shortages for the nhs .

But the main issue for all the stretching of services across the board ,is massive unnatural population rise .

You may not see it on the south coast ,but its real here in the west miss.

I agree that immigration is not the best solution for an aging population. Possibly we could have followed the Japanese model. Or maybe we should just tax the hell out of old people and force them to sell their homes. But the problem is real and it needs to be resolved. I really have doubts that immigration will change over the next twenty years as it suits governments, and it's very hard for the people affected by it to vote against it. You can brexit all you want but it won't change anything.

[Gbye grey sky]

Well the failure of left wing politics has reached it's inevitable conclusion, who next? Le Pen, Wilders, Petry. someone else?

 

What do you consider left wing? And what does left wing imply to you?

 

I would consider the NHS, health care for all regardless of ability to pay, provided through general taxation, to be the most radical left wing institution but strangely this still has widespread support.

 

By contrast Right-wingers favour billionnaires bleeding the people dry whilst blaming immigrants and the poor for everything. They used to blame the Trade Unions too but they are largely ignored and irrelevant nowadays. This is also surprisingly popular with many mainly because some of those billionnaires control most of the mainstram media and most do not bother to use their own minds to see the manipulation involved.

 

You have been conditioned by the extreme right to believe that we have been in an era of left wing politics. We haven't.

[BacktoDemocracy]

What do you consider left wing? And what does left wing imply to you?

 

I would consider the NHS, health care for all regardless of ability to pay, provided through general taxation, to be the most radical left wing institution but strangely this still has widespread support.

 

By contrast Right-wingers favour billionnaires bleeding the people dry whilst blaming immigrants and the poor for everything. They used to blame the Trade Unions too but they are largely ignored and irrelevant nowadays. This is also surprisingly popular with many mainly because some of those billionnaires control most of the mainstram media and most do not bother to use their own minds to see the manipulation involved.

 

You have been conditioned by the extreme right to believe that we have been in an era of left wing politics. We haven't.

 

A 30 year interregnum in a 5 century continuum of aristocratic right wing self centerdness because the 'Establishment' realised that revolution was a real possibility, we are now reverting to the real reality of the UK, a right wing that is intent on sweeping away the gains made by the working man, a project that has been 60 years in the making.

[bunbury61]

Mo

A 30 year interregnum in a 5 century continuum of aristocratic right wing self centerdness because the 'Establishment' realised that revolution was a real possibility, we are now reverting to the real reality of the UK, a right wing that is intent on sweeping away the gains made by the working man, a project that has been 60 years in the making.

 

Very good ....

[bunbury61]

I agree that immigration is not the best solution for an aging population. Possibly we could have followed the Japanese model. Or maybe we should just tax the hell out of old people and force them to sell their homes. But the problem is real and it needs to be resolved. I really have doubts that immigration will change over the next twenty years as it suits governments, and it's very hard for the people affected by it to vote against it. You can brexit all you want but it won't change anything.

 

Oh it will ...AND HERE COMES DONALD

[Gbye grey sky]

Oh it will ...AND HERE COMES DONALD

 

I fully expect that those who championed Brexit and Trump will be the ones who end up the most aggrieved in a few years time. The EU and Obama will seem like a cherished memory and they will all backtrack wildly. In the end (like with the Iraq invasion) they will be in two camps. Denying they ever supported it or complaining they were hoodwinked.

 

The rest of us will be more sanguine. After all, we fear potential meltdown so anything short of this will be a total relief.

[newjez]

I fully expect that those who championed Brexit and Trump will be the ones who end up the most aggrieved in a few years time. The EU and Obama will seem like a cherished memory and they will all backtrack wildly. In the end (like with the Iraq invasion) they will be in two camps. Denying they ever supported it or complaining they were hoodwinked.

 

The rest of us will be more sanguine. After all, we fear potential meltdown so anything short of this will be a total relief.

oh of course they will. The stupidity of these people never ceases to amaze me. Nissan are already backtracking. Sunderland is screwed and they have no one to blame but themselves.

[bunbury61]

I fully expect that those who championed Brexit and Trump will be the ones who end up the most aggrieved in a few years time. The EU and Obama will seem like a cherished memory and they will all backtrack wildly. In the end (like with the Iraq invasion) they will be in two camps. Denying they ever supported it or complaining they were hoodwinked.

 

The rest of us will be more sanguine. After all, we fear potential meltdown so anything short of this will be a total relief.

 

The meltdown started WAY before trump or brexit ,so don't get hanging that one on people .

So if times get tough ,and they will ,you can starting harking back to great times under Obama .

Obama is a great orator ,and so much was hoped for .

But he achieved very little .

America is in the last chance saloon ,and has been for a long while ...way before Donald j trump .

[bunbury61]

The meltdown started WAY before trump or brexit ,so don't get hanging that one on people .

So if times get tough ,and they will ,you can starting harking back to great times under Obama .

Obama is a great orator ,and so much was hoped for .

But he achieved very little .

America is in the last chance saloon ,and has been for a long while ...way before Donald j trump .

 

P.s its the " we know better" attitude of these politicians like Blair ,with his back door , open door policies that get us into this mess ,and now we have the fall out ...brexot and trump .

For every action there is a reaction

[Gbye grey sky]

The meltdown started WAY before trump or brexit ,so don't get hanging that one on people .

So if times get tough ,and they will ,you can starting harking back to great times under Obama .

Obama is a great orator ,and so much was hoped for .

But he achieved very little .

America is in the last chance saloon ,and has been for a long while ...way before Donald j trump .

 

Definitely hoping that Trump achieves very little. He may live up to his name and trump the GFC otherwise.

 

Really cannot see how you conclude that America is in the last chance saloon. They were when Obama came to power in 2009 for sure. Republicans have completely forgotten the GFC and that it happened on their watch.

[bunbury61]

Definitely hoping that Trump achieves very little. He may live up to his name and trump the GFC otherwise.

 

Really cannot see how you conclude that America is in the last chance saloon. They were when Obama came to power in 2009 for sure. Republicans have completely forgotten the GFC and that it happened on their watch.

 

 

America is in the last chance saloon ...technically broke ...22 trillion in debt ....old and failing infrastructure ....their days of top dog will be over very soon unless someone gets hold of the place by the scruff of the neck .

If America fails ...the west fails .

I don't a **** about your politics left or right ...i don't care .

The facts are something needs to be done ASAP in the united states

[BacktoDemocracy]

oh of course they will. The stupidity of these people never ceases to amaze me. Nissan are already backtracking. Sunderland is screwed and they have no one to blame but themselves.

Unfortunately harsh but unfortunately also true.

[newjez]

They were saying on the radio that Trump has already saved thousands of American jobs even before he has taken office.

 

Quite a number of companies have shelved plans to relocate to Mexico and China their manufacturing operations which have meant lots of job losses in their US factories.

 

Trump will be very popular at the grass roots of good old USA who see this happening.

 

The elite of Washington, New York and California may not approve, but we saw at the election the grass roots has a louder voice at the ballot box.

I think brexit and Trump are both potentially positive. They have both identified wrongs in society that need fixing. Obviously this appeals to a lot of people. They are both about returning control to the people who have been disenfranchised. In many ways they are sounding very socialist in their intentions. Taking money and power from the elite and returning it to the poor. I've never experienced living under a far right or a far left government. But we know from examples around the world that they do have their supporters. I guess only time will tell if they mean what they say. Because they are also potentially destructive if handled incorrectly. Edited January 21, 2017 by newjez

[BacktoDemocracy]

I think brexit and Trump are both potentially positive. They have both identified wrongs in society that need fixing. Obviously this appeals to a lot of people. They are both about returning control to the people who have been disenfranchised. In many ways they are sounding very socialist in their intentions. Taking money and power from the elite and returning it to the poor. I've never experienced living under a far right or a far left government. But we know from examples around the world that they do have their supporters. I guess only time will tell if they mean what they say. Because they are also potentially destructive if handled incorrectly.

I feel like you need to allow yourself to come down on one side or other of the major questions of the day, it seems like you can always see both sides of the argument or are you just wanting to avoid the angst of having a position.