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Kurt

Stay or go

47 posts in this topic

Hi,

 

 

I could use some advice or hear opinions.

 

 

I have been granted and validated my 189 visa. However, I can't decide whether to go after all.

 

 

My marital situation is a little bit different than most of what I've seen in this forum and others. I'm single, rapidly pushing 40, never married, so I have no other half or dependents to worry about if the move goes wrong. I applied thinking of the 'lifestyle' and the good weather and because after just over a decade in the UK, I think life in London didn't turn out to be all I hoped for (slow on the uptake but I get there). Good job and a nice (rented) flat but I've found most people I've come across are in a rush all the time and though I've made many acquaintances, as in the type I can go out for a drink with, I've made no real friends like the kind I have back in the 'old country'. If I move to Australia I would have to give my job and careerwise possibly start from the bottom. If the move doesn't work out I'd have to move back to London and start over finding a flatshare and a job. I will have lost a lot of money in the meantime which is going to set me back a lot from getting on the property ladder.

 

 

Family-wise, I have a father soon to be 70 who lives on the other side of the continent whom I visit twice a year and he sometimes comes over for short visits too. I also have a brother who has a young family whom I see when I travel there. I hadn't told my father of my intent to move before I got my visa so as not to get discouraged as I was going through the process. But since then we talked a lot and he's never stopped attempting to talk me out of it. He's hyper active and mostly in good physical health but, although he never brought it up, I know that if neither of us gets hit by a bus in the near future, I'll see him eventually slowly lose his mental and physical faculties and if in Australia it would pain me to see him only once every 2-3 years.

 

 

I'll also be completely on my own without a partner and it'll probably be lonely at first. But I get this here in London too.

 

 

Then there's the work opportunities. I applied thinking that there's no way there won't be many jobs in my field in Melbourne and Sydney (I do software/web development). I get varying experiences in the forums about that, some find work within 1-2 months after landing, some takes them 6, others move back to their country of origin a year later having spend their life savings looking for work without success. I've also heard of the request for "local experience" before many consider you for a position. But, like in product reviews, you're more likely to report on something when you have a bad experience of it in order to inform others. There's always the positive possible outcome which is finding work relatively soon and settling in. I'll probably also have to take a pay cut for the first couple of years as a new migrant.

 

 

On the other hand, I applied for the visa knowing that life is short and at nearly 40 I'm itching for an adventure. I'm tired of this weather and the stress of London and need a change of scenery. At a first glance it seems like I'm giving up a lot but here are no certainties in life. Additionally there's the upcoming Brexit which has affected my work directly as well as possibly the number of job opportunities in the UK. I don't want "what-ifs", to regret things I've not done. I have to do what I feel is right. I miss the laid back, "there's always tomorrow" lifestyle which I had before I came to London.

 

 

I've been swaying between the two options for the past two weeks and I think it's not doing me any good thinking about it again and again especially after revving myself up for the better part of last year, but I think I have to follow my instinct. It's all very nice, safety and comfort, but sometimes you just have to live your life.

 

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

TL;DR - I've been granted and validated my 189 visa but I can't decide whether to go. I'm a single man with a good job and a rented home in London and at nearly 40 it'd scare me to give all that up and start over on the other side of the planet. If the move doesn't work out I'd have to uproot again and move back to London looking for a home and work and in the meantime I'll be set back by thousands of pounds. I also have family I'm close with on the other side of the continent and it'd be scare to see my ageing dad once every 2-3 years.

 

Workwise, as someone who wants to work in IT/Software in Melbourne or Sydney I' getting good and bad stories about job availability.

 

 

However, I have little social life in London as everyone seems to be in a rush all the time. There are no certainties in life, even the good home and work could disappear, and if I don't go I'm afraid I'll look back at 50 and deeply regret it. I've got a scratch I need to itch and if it doesn't work out I'll have dragged no one else into this but myself and I can possibly absorb the monetary setback in a few years time.Do you think that small adjustments in life could significantly increase its quality instead of uprooting and leaving?

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Can you not take a career break and try Australia without burning your bridges ,maybe say for a year ?

It may scratch your itch and settle your mind one way or another. Leaving family is hard and broke my heart, thankfuly i had their backing but years on i miss them as much as Day 1 ,i guess you sort of learn to live with it and try to stay in touch in other ways. On the flip side,the pull is too much for many migrants and they return to be near family, a year or 2 over here should give you a decent idea of how you feel and wouldnt leave you spending the next 40 years wondering what if.

 

Cal x

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I agree with CalNgary. Take a career break, suck it and see, that way you lose nothing, have your adventure and see if it works for you.

 

Big cities are much of a muchness in reality and the pace of life in busy city career oriented jobs is about the same. Better weather? Hmm Sydney over Melbourne perhaps but bottom line, start where you can get a job and go from there. Both are quite expensive places to live so you'd want to land something substantial otherwise it's baked beans on toast territory.

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Hi Kurt

 

I am in a very similar situation to you. I applied thinking I liked the lifestyle and weather, validated and then time went by still in the UK. I'm also single, 44 never married and no kids. In fact, I was still unsure up until 6 weeks before my visa would run out for entry.

 

I've also got parents who are now in the 70's and is a worry about the future.

 

However, at 6 weeks out, finally decided I would come here - the main reason being not wanting to regret it for the rest of my life. I've not cut all ties with the UK, and in my mind I currently think if I stay it'll be 4 years so that I can get citizenship and then who knows after that.

 

So, I'm a few weeks in now, and nothing is yet settled - no ongoing rental just short term, and no job yet as we hit christmas, but it is nowhere near as stressful as I thought it would be - the worst bit was leaving.

 

So I'd say give it a go, but dont think of it as such a stark choice else you will worry yourself silly about it, just enjoy what comes and take it one day at a time.

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I think go for it. You can talk yourself into and out of anything. Believe me, I've been there big time.

 

Go for adventure. Life isn't better in Australia nor is it better in the UK. What suits you won't suit others etc.

 

Just do it! :cool:

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Career break all the way. My wife is taking a 5 year one and we'll see what happens over. I'm self employed.

 

B

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I think go for it. You can talk yourself into and out of anything. Believe me, I've been there big time.

 

Go for adventure. Life isn't better in Australia nor is it better in the UK. What suits you won't suit others etc.

 

Just do it! :cool:

 

I like that, Ozzie.:yes:

 

Cheers, Bobj.

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Sounds like it's worth a spin to me

 

There's quite a bit of software development work I think, both Sydney and Melbourne although people I know in that sector do agree there's a lot of "who you know" at play, but this is so for many industries in Aus (and in fairness that's not uniquely Australian). None of your reasons for not going are that strong to my reading; your father's only 70 and if fit and healthy these days that's not really old; you're only renting in London at the moment anyway; you don't sound like you've got lots of things you're leaving behind

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I think go for it. You can talk yourself into and out of anything. Believe me, I've been there big time.

 

Go for adventure. Life isn't better in Australia nor is it better in the UK. What suits you won't suit others etc.

 

Just do it! :cool:

 

"Like"

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Posted (edited)

Hi Kurt,

 

Front and back end web dev, pretty strong in both Sydney and Melbourne. If you have any Scrum, Agile, DevOps, big data experience that will certainly help.

 

Salaries I think will tend to be slightly higher in Sydney due to the higher cost of living.

 

Aside from the weather, I think you may find the same hustle and bustle as London in Sydney, where as Melbourne a slower pace and believe people tend to be more friendlier.

 

Take a look at seek.com.au to gauge the market, due to the Christmas break it won't really start picking up till after Australia day.

 

Could you move your stuff back to your parents and brother, get a flat share here so you only have to buy the minimal of stuff and ship a couple of boxes to keep the costs right down. You could then give yourself a year or two to decide if the decision is right before fully committing.

 

EDIT: As an after thought, do you have a github account, if so add that to your CV, if not already.

Edited by evets

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Hi,

 

 

I could use some advice or hear opinions.

 

 

I have been granted and validated my 189 visa. However, I can't decide whether to go after all.

 

 

My marital situation is a little bit different than most of what I've seen in this forum and others. I'm single, rapidly pushing 40, never married, so I have no other half or dependents to worry about if the move goes wrong. I applied thinking of the 'lifestyle' and the good weather and because after just over a decade in the UK, I think life in London didn't turn out to be all I hoped for (slow on the uptake but I get there). Good job and a nice (rented) flat but I've found most people I've come across are in a rush all the time and though I've made many acquaintances, as in the type I can go out for a drink with, I've made no real friends like the kind I have back in the 'old country'. If I move to Australia I would have to give my job and careerwise possibly start from the bottom. If the move doesn't work out I'd have to move back to London and start over finding a flatshare and a job. I will have lost a lot of money in the meantime which is going to set me back a lot from getting on the property ladder.

 

 

Family-wise, I have a father soon to be 70 who lives on the other side of the continent whom I visit twice a year and he sometimes comes over for short visits too. I also have a brother who has a young family whom I see when I travel there. I hadn't told my father of my intent to move before I got my visa so as not to get discouraged as I was going through the process. But since then we talked a lot and he's never stopped attempting to talk me out of it. He's hyper active and mostly in good physical health but, although he never brought it up, I know that if neither of us gets hit by a bus in the near future, I'll see him eventually slowly lose his mental and physical faculties and if in Australia it would pain me to see him only once every 2-3 years.

 

 

I'll also be completely on my own without a partner and it'll probably be lonely at first. But I get this here in London too.

 

 

Then there's the work opportunities. I applied thinking that there's no way there won't be many jobs in my field in Melbourne and Sydney (I do software/web development). I get varying experiences in the forums about that, some find work within 1-2 months after landing, some takes them 6, others move back to their country of origin a year later having spend their life savings looking for work without success. I've also heard of the request for "local experience" before many consider you for a position. But, like in product reviews, you're more likely to report on something when you have a bad experience of it in order to inform others. There's always the positive possible outcome which is finding work relatively soon and settling in. I'll probably also have to take a pay cut for the first couple of years as a new migrant.

 

 

On the other hand, I applied for the visa knowing that life is short and at nearly 40 I'm itching for an adventure. I'm tired of this weather and the stress of London and need a change of scenery. At a first glance it seems like I'm giving up a lot but here are no certainties in life. Additionally there's the upcoming Brexit which has affected my work directly as well as possibly the number of job opportunities in the UK. I don't want "what-ifs", to regret things I've not done. I have to do what I feel is right. I miss the laid back, "there's always tomorrow" lifestyle which I had before I came to London.

 

 

I've been swaying between the two options for the past two weeks and I think it's not doing me any good thinking about it again and again especially after revving myself up for the better part of last year, but I think I have to follow my instinct. It's all very nice, safety and comfort, but sometimes you just have to live your life.

 

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

TL;DR - I've been granted and validated my 189 visa but I can't decide whether to go. I'm a single man with a good job and a rented home in London and at nearly 40 it'd scare me to give all that up and start over on the other side of the planet. If the move doesn't work out I'd have to uproot again and move back to London looking for a home and work and in the meantime I'll be set back by thousands of pounds. I also have family I'm close with on the other side of the continent and it'd be scare to see my ageing dad once every 2-3 years.

 

Workwise, as someone who wants to work in IT/Software in Melbourne or Sydney I' getting good and bad stories about job availability.

 

 

However, I have little social life in London as everyone seems to be in a rush all the time. There are no certainties in life, even the good home and work could disappear, and if I don't go I'm afraid I'll look back at 50 and deeply regret it. I've got a scratch I need to itch and if it doesn't work out I'll have dragged no one else into this but myself and I can possibly absorb the monetary setback in a few years time.Do you think that small adjustments in life could significantly increase its quality instead of uprooting and leaving?

 

 

You have the visa and no property to worry about and you're still young so my thought is just go for it - if you can take a career break then that's a good idea but otherwise you have more to gain than to lose and it doesn't need to be forever, we came back after 5 years.

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I think it'd probably be worth a shot. I've no idea about IT, but you're ideally placed with no substantial ties or responsibilities at the moment, and so I don't think you've anything to lose by giving it a go for a while. You don't have to view a move as permanent or temporary, just go with the flow and see how you feel. We're just heading back in the opposite direction, but we've had a great time here, albeit with kids which is probably more difficult. Maybe see if you could stay long enough to get citizenship, so the door is always open for you in the future.

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100% agree with you LKC, I'd say give it a go.

 

Appreciate it is difficult with kids although I would say its also difficult doing this on your own too - there is no one to boost you back up if you are having a bad day. It can feel lonely but as you say the key is to go with the flow and see how you feel.

 

I'd say put all your stuff in self storage in the UK for say, 6 months and get yourself out here to see how you feel after a few weeks, or months. Buy a one year return ticket, so you know you will be going back within the year, at least for a holiday and to arrange to ship your stuff out, or else to return for good after deciding its not for you. Can always have furnished short term, and will give you a very good idea what is worth shipping or not (I wouldnt ship half of what I thought I would after doing this).

 

If nothing else, you'll have an adventure which you can remember for the rest of your life. Don't think of returning as a failure, just an option. You wont know unless you try.

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Life is an adventure, would you regret if you didn't at least try it? Nothing has to be permanent. We have never said that Australia will be our home forever, although having lived here for a few years and toured, I suspect it will be.

As said above, try it as a career break, see what happens.

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Posted (edited)

I assume you are in a nice safe permie job kurt?

 

First thing you need to do is take some risks. Book yourself into a skydiving course and jump out of an aeroplane. After that, everything else will be tame.

 

Next step, go contracting. Be it in Australia or the UK. May as well be Australia though. By taking some risks you will earn some money and actually be able to buy a house and get some stability.

 

Embrace Australia. Or the UK if you decide to stay. Do something new and exciting once a month.

 

Live a bit mate. Explore the world.

 

In ten years you will be pushing 50. Where do you want to be then?

Edited by newjez

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Hey mate,

 

I'm with the others, go for it.

 

I'm a little confused by your post though, you're in London, right, your Dad is where (UK?) and your brother & family are where?

 

There is an expression about London "everybody should live before they are 35, everybody should move out of London after 35", can't remember who said it.

 

I first moved over as a backpacker at 24, moved home to Dublin at 33 with citizenship and came back to Sydney at 37 (economic reasons), now I am about to move to Perth at 43 (to be closer to my daughter). I purposely got my citizenship in 2007 before moving home just to keep my options open, I didn't think I'd need it so soon.

 

It is definitely harder as you get older and as an expat you need to make more of an effort to meet people. It took me 18 months to really settle when I moved back at 37. Depending on your interests sports clubs are a great way to start socialising. My football club in Sydney has over 2,500 members and over 200 over 35's and 45s. Meetup.com is a great site for finding groups who share your interests, I found a great bunch of friends to go skiing with every season. Even social events on forums such as this. It will be hit and miss but you will find people you click with eventually if you make the effort. You are probably over sharing a home, but it may be an idea for the first year to help you meet some people. Flatmate finders is a good start to find compatible housemates.

 

Regarding work, you are in a boom industry worldwide (although sometimes not as well paid as it might be). You should be ok in any of the capital cities but Sydney and Melbourne would be your best bet. Reach out to a few recruiters (I know a few in that area) for an initial chat on how in demand your skillset is and what sort of $ you could pull. Seek.com.au is a good start for browsing job ads and I'm finding LinkedIn is good. Nov to Jan is a real quiet time so don't be too disheartened at the minute. Things start picking back up post Australia day (Jan 26).

 

Sydney is about 10% more expensive than Melbourne but salaries are higher. IMO - Sydney is beautiful and has better weather, the harbour & beaches. Melbourne, probably friendlier, more of an European city and more culture, nicer vibe to it although the introduction of small bars in Sydney helps.

 

PR is a big thing, well done. Never die wondering, you rarely regret the things you do, often the things you don't do. I think it's worth coming over and staying to get your citizenship. After that you have options, you may end up going back to Europe/Uk and then retiring to Aus in 20 years. You may end up with kids and have Aus citizenship to pass onto them. Keeping your options open is the key thing. Definitely a better lifestyle and more outdoors focussed. Distance is an issue though (although flights are cheap at the minute) meaning you can't go to every wedding, funeral etc.

 

If you decide that Aus is too far away but still want to move out of London, have a look at Dublin. Smaller, friendlier city but still close to UK/Europe, no IREexit (we're dumb but not stupid :)) and large tech industry (Silicon docks is in the city and has the EMEA HQ of a lot the large tech companies (Google, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter etc and lots of spinoffs from that), crying out for software engineers.

 

Good luck

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I think you are in a very fortunate position. No dependents or financial burden to worry about. How awesome? Probably my biggest concern moving over was letting down my family (dependents) and losing a lot of money on something that was ultimately my idea. Career break would be a great idea if you could. I actually like the Dublin idea as well from Collie, having family who work in IT over there it is a real hub. Obviously not the weather you may be seeking but great tasting Guinness!

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Fair point Benj1980, I guess if you have dependants then there is more potential to let down your family, especially if it was your idea in the first place. That makes it more complicated than coming over on your own.

 

I think we all agree he should just give it a go! However, it was easier for me as I had been here before on a WHV, as I am sure many others on here have done too. I think that saves the rose tinted glasses, but nonetheless still love it here. I gauge that on whether I want to get on a plane and 'go home' - no thanks, I want to stay here :)

 

However, I nearly missed the chance as I was going, then not, then going again, so that leap is not easy.

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Oh, one other thing you could do is to set your Dad up on skype and teach him how to use it. You can skype him from London to get him used to it and then skype him from Aus. Once you're set up he could come over and visit you.

 

My parents learned to skype in their 70s to see their granddaughter and have travelled over twice in recent years (3 times for my Mum).

 

My phone contract in Aus includes 300 minutes of international calls per month and regularly call my family and mates in Ireland, the same as I'd call a local mate, just have to watch the time difference :)

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Oh, one other thing you could do is to set your Dad up on skype and teach him how to use it. You can skype him from London to get him used to it and then skype him from Aus. Once you're set up he could come over and visit you.

 

My parents learned to skype in their 70s to see their granddaughter and have travelled over twice in recent years (3 times for my Mum).

 

My phone contract in Aus includes 300 minutes of international calls per month and regularly call my family and mates in Ireland, the same as I'd call a local mate, just have to watch the time difference :)

it's always annoyed me that my parents relatives, and my own brothers and sisters haven't set up cheap international calls. Costs peanuts nowadays, and Skype is free. Not a big fan of Skype but my kids use it to talk with their cousins.

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Oh, one other thing you could do is to set your Dad up on skype and teach him how to use it. You can skype him from London to get him used to it and then skype him from Aus. Once you're set up he could come over and visit you.

 

My parents learned to skype in their 70s to see their granddaughter and have travelled over twice in recent years (3 times for my Mum).

 

My phone contract in Aus includes 300 minutes of international calls per month and regularly call my family and mates in Ireland, the same as I'd call a local mate, just have to watch the time difference :)

 

My mobile includes 100 mins per month international which is great. Also you can consider VOIP Phones assuming you have internet access when set up over here - then have an account with the likes of Sipgate with a UK local number, pay £9.95 per month and you can call as if you are in the UK unlimited, and they can call you free of charge too if they have 60 minute plans :) You can still have an australian local number too of course if you wish.

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it's always annoyed me that my parents relatives, and my own brothers and sisters haven't set up cheap international calls. Costs peanuts nowadays, and Skype is free. Not a big fan of Skype but my kids use it to talk with their cousins.

 

Haha so agree, Skype, google hangouts, whatsapp, facetime etc.

 

 

As long as you have a smartphone and a decide plan(in case you are not at home for a quick chat).

Wifi and a decent broadband connection will suffice at home.

 

 

I find Whatsapp and hangouts excellent voice quality. Dropped using Viber as was painful to move chats to different platforms.

 

 

Video is still very dependant on your ISP, Skype etc can be great one day and not so good another day. But hey its free, take the bad with the good.

 

 

I suppose the older generation find it harder to transition. My mum in her 70's is all good with it, sometimes to good. But my Dad will not touch the stuff.

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Why not give it a go, life is short and you can always go back if you don't like it. It is hard doing this alone. I don't have any family or partner and I'm the wrong side of forty. But I didn't want to regret not giving it a go. Probably made a bit of a mistake going rural but I can always move to the coast later on.

 

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

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My dad is pretty savvy with Skype/Viber/Facetime etc. This is what helps us keep contact while he lives in Greece and me, in the UK. It'll be the the same in Australia with the advantage that our time zones will be a couple of hours closer than the UK.

 

True; my flat is rented and I'm going to vacate it in a few months anyway.

 

It's also true that what suits you won't suit others. I know fellow Greeks who have been here for as long as I have if not longer and wouldn't think of living anywhere else. But, me, I decided it's no longer for me. Dublin certainly sounds like a good place for software professionals. If I were to return to the UK I'd move to Edinburgh or Bristol; smaller towns with tech activity. However we don't know what's gonna happen with the Brexit and Ireland has expressed interest in the UK tech pie when it brexits anyway.

 

At 40 I'd say I can't count myself as 'young' anymore but, isn't it true that 40 is the new 30? :)

 

I'd eventually like to buy a flat while my age still allows to get a mortgage and pay it back and this could set me back by a few thousand pounds. If there's one major thing I'm giving up it's this.

 

The way I'm envisioning the move is to sell my furniture and some other expensive stuff and take a few suitcases with me so I don't think I'll need to use storage.

 

I didn't use to see it as such a stark choice until my father attempted to talk me out of it; I have a feeling he won't stop even as I'll be saying goodbye to him at the airport. He thinks I'm running away from my problems and I can have a pretty good life in Europe but if he had his own way I'd now be married with a nice Greek girl having moved a few blocks down from where I grew up. This isn't what I wanted for myself; living someone else's idea of 'real' life; it's what I was thinking when I moved to the UK. I am running away from something: the idea of the 'proper' way of living my society has. In the next few months I'll be finding myself answering the same questions defensively but that's probably his way of processing this in his mind. I think he may worry that I'll find a nice Australian lady and stay there!

 

I think there's got to be something more to life than working, paying taxes and bills and then dying.

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elderberry: Good luck with everything; as we're moving past the festive season the market will pick up.

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