Siblin! Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hi all, After spending the last 8 1/2 years in Australia we found ourselves without a visa (long story). Our daughter decided to return to Oz on a working holiday visa straight away. We want to return and have hopefully secured a 457 sponsor however, my daughter is now 21 and on her working holiday visa and my son is 19 and at university in the UK. Is there any way I can get them classed as dependants on our 457 visa? I think the son maybe OK and I have advised my daughter to enrol at TAFE but she is still working. My problem is once her working holiday visa ceases she will be wholly dependant on us and she will have no one in the UK as she has been living with us in Australia since she was 12 years old. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calNgary Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I am by far an expert but i think if your daughter is working you cannot add her onto your visa as she wouldnt be classed as dependant, your son may be ok. You may be best to give an agent a quick call and see what they say. Good luck and its great to see your name back on the forum too. Cal x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quoll Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 You couldn't get a RRV rather than a 457? I think you will struggle to get your daughter as a dependent but you should talk to an agent about your possible options. The 457 is only going to be temporary anyway so not a great option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I would certainly look at an RRV rather than a 457. If you held a permanent visa, the visa is still there, just the travel rights expire. However, if you obtain a 457, this will cancel the pr visa. Sadly, if your daughter also held PR and has now obtained a whv, this would have cancelled her PR and she could not be included in the rrv and as no longer a dependent, you would not be able to get a dependent child visa. If if you are unable to get a rrv or didn't hold PR then you would need to be aware of the issues surrounding 457 visas. Not least that to gain a later permanent visa is not automatic and if you haven't obtained it by age 50 then extra hurdles are in place such as having to have earned a minimum of $132,000 every year for 4 years on a 457. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Hi all, After spending the last 8 1/2 years in Australia we found ourselves without a visa (long story). Our daughter decided to return to Oz on a working holiday visa straight away. We want to return and have hopefully secured a 457 sponsor however, my daughter is now 21 and on her working holiday visa and my son is 19 and at university in the UK. Is there any way I can get them classed as dependants on our 457 visa? I think the son maybe OK and I have advised my daughter to enrol at TAFE but she is still working. My problem is once her working holiday visa ceases she will be wholly dependant on us and she will have no one in the UK as she has been living with us in Australia since she was 12 years old. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Many thanks I think it would be useful to get at least a short version of the long story to understand what the last visa was and what happened to it and accordingly if there is a way of resuming it. As to any new visa and your daughter, no the WHV will effectively have ended her dependency on you. You will not be able to argue a 21 year old is wholly dependent upon you, she can get a job will be the response. Your son, yes he could go onto the 457 but if he is in university in UK it is somewhat moot? Now if you were about to get a permanent visa then it would make every sense to put him on that application, but whilst you might as well put him on the 457 it might not achieve anything. Have you looked into permanent visas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 I think it would be useful to get at least a short version of the long story to understand what the last visa was and what happened to it and accordingly if there is a way of resuming it. As to any new visa and your daughter, no the WHV will effectively have ended her dependency on you. You will not be able to argue a 21 year old is wholly dependent upon you, she can get a job will be the response. Your son, yes he could go onto the 457 but if he is in university in UK it is somewhat moot? Now if you were about to get a permanent visa then it would make every sense to put him on that application, but whilst you might as well put him on the 457 it might not achieve anything. Have you looked into permanent visas? We we have already been on two previous 457 visas and so we can't get a RRV as no PR. We will still be well within the 50 PR cut off so no problems with a 457 to PR. I was hoping that there may be an option to cancel our daughter's WHV and enrol her in TAFE. The thing is when her six months is up on her WHV, it will be difficult for her to gain another six month contract and she will then be wholly dependant on us. We have to subsidise her now. She will also have no base back in the UK and no support. She as only 12 when she went to Australia. It's all so messed up and frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy1 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 We we have already been on two previous 457 visas and so we can't get a RRV as no PR. We will still be well within the 50 PR cut off so no problems with a 457 to PR. I was hoping that there may be an option to cancel our daughter's WHV and enrol her in TAFE. The thing is when her six months is up on her WHV, it will be difficult for her to gain another six month contract and she will then be wholly dependant on us. We have to subsidise her now. She will also have no base back in the UK and no support. She as only 12 when she went to Australia. It's all so messed up and frustrating. She's 21 and working and so is not dependent on you, that may well present a problem. That's why you need to speak to a migration agent. If you have already had two 457's and returned to the UK before to live, what makes you think that won't happen again? Something to consider carefully at this stage. You will also be liable for tuition fees without eligibility for student loans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bungo Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) We we have already been on two previous 457 visas and so we can't get a RRV as no PR. We will still be well within the 50 PR cut off so no problems with a 457 to PR. I was hoping that there may be an option to cancel our daughter's WHV and enrol her in TAFE. The thing is when her six months is up on her WHV, it will be difficult for her to gain another six month contract and she will then be wholly dependant on us. We have to subsidise her now. She will also have no base back in the UK and no support. She as only 12 when she went to Australia. It's all so messed up and frustrating. You cannot know that there will be no issue in going from a 457 to a permanent visa, it is not automatic. You would be better off seeing if you can get a permanent visa straight away, that would sort your son out. As for your daughter, many twenty one year olds look after themselves, live in shared houses etc. She has also already travelled to the other side of the world on her own, gone to work, for this reason I believe you will not be able to argue she is dependent. But what are her timings, when did she leave education? how long has she been working (either in UK or Australia)? If it is less than six months then getting back into education might be an avenue. Returning to education after a long gap just before parents lodge a visa application, will be very obvious as to why and is unlikely to cut it. Edited December 31, 2016 by Bungo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Also, I am assuming your son is in the early part of his degree. In which case he would either have to stay behind to finish it in the UK or, if he finished it in Oz he would be paying international fees. These can be in the tens of thousands and he would have to pay in advance with no government funding. With your daugher I agree with Bungo, it will be very hard to establish her as a dependent for any visa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieMay24 Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I'd suggest you speak with a migration agent. If your daughter is still largely dependent on you, you may be able to include her in your visa. But a migration agent would be the best source of guidance as to how to present this in a visa application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Thanks Maggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Hi all, she only came back for a couple of weeks and returned to Oz straight away. We set her up with money to fund a shared house and paid for her visas and flights etc. We have also sent her regular money over to help her out as she has struggled to stay afloat out there. She didn't finish her year 12 and so she is going to undertake it again so she can go on to university. With regards to my son, he may go through TAFE or he may choose to keep on his degree in the UK and come and stay with us on the holidays. He will still be dependant on us as he is at the moment. We have to fund his accommodation etc... It is a tricky situation and I hope still possible to show that they are both still dependant on us Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VERYSTORMY Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I am sorry, but I think you are being very unfair to your son. It it is a time when he should be concentrating entirely on his degree and his future. Yet you are going to offer him a very unfair choice of "stay and we leave you so we can have 4 years in Oz" - that is all a 457 is or - you can abandon your future and follow us". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 Not really, he will be coming out and staying with us in his holidays anyway but he'd rather have the opportunity to work with his referee buddies and hang out with his buddies in Oz. He has a life in Oz that he loves. I think you are forgetting all my children have grown up in Oz and have very established lives. Many people go off to other countries for university. It's life experience and exciting. He doesn't have a base of friends in the UK outside of university so he is quite happy being able to catch up with his social 'home' circle when he is on uni holidays. I am sorry, but I think you are being very unfair to your son. It it is a time when he should be concentrating entirely on his degree and his future. Yet you are going to offer him a very unfair choice of "stay and we leave you so we can have 4 years in Oz" - that is all a 457 is or - you can abandon your future and follow us". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) Hi all, After spending the last 8 1/2 years in Australia we found ourselves without a visa (long story). Our daughter decided to return to Oz on a working holiday visa straight away. We want to return and have hopefully secured a 457 sponsor however, my daughter is now 21 and on her working holiday visa and my son is 19 and at university in the UK. Is there any way I can get them classed as dependants on our 457 visa? I think the son maybe OK and I have advised my daughter to enrol at TAFE but she is still working. My problem is once her working holiday visa ceases she will be wholly dependant on us and she will have no one in the UK as she has been living with us in Australia since she was 12 years old. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Many thanks Regarding TAFE, I think I read somewhere that you can only study for a maximum of 17 weeks and may be limited e.g. to just language courses and not vocational courses but i'm not 100% on that one. Doesn't the applicant need to ensure sufficient funds for a WHV - I know many people borrow the money e.g. from parents, but they have to have proof if asked that it's in their account - I wonder if this would hinder the application for her dependency on you as she has entered the country with funds of her own technically. Edited January 1, 2017 by ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diane Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Excuse me if this is offensive to anyone, but I have a 19 and 22 year old and if I wanted to move to a different country, I would make the decision based on the fact that they are now adults and independent - or should be working towards that aim - and wouldn't expect them to move with me. I know maybe I'm a bit less dependent on them being near me than some parents obviously are, but for goodness sake, they are adults, they make their own choices, if they end up living in a different country to me either through their or my choices, then they can visit for holidays, or I can visit them. If they wanted to move to the same country as me at some point in their future, then it would be up to them to train or apply for a visa in their own right, not constantly hang on my apron strings. If being in different countries than them was such an issue for me, then I wouldn't move to another country, but stay in the one that they have a right to live in already. I wish agents that push the 457 visa would make it really clear to applicants that this does not give them permanent rights to live in the country, and if they choose to bring their children and their children have all their friends in Australia, then at some point they are going to have to leave those friends and make new ones in the country they DO have permanent residency in, because they don't have rights to stay here forever and that's something they should go into with eyes open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Excuse me if this is offensive to anyone, but I have a 19 and 22 year old and if I wanted to move to a different country, I would make the decision based on the fact that they are now adults and independent - or should be working towards that aim - and wouldn't expect them to move with me. I know maybe I'm a bit less dependent on them being near me than some parents obviously are, but for goodness sake, they are adults, they make their own choices, if they end up living in a different country to me either through their or my choices, then they can visit for holidays, or I can visit them. If they wanted to move to the same country as me at some point in their future, then it would be up to them to train or apply for a visa in their own right, not constantly hang on my apron strings. If being in different countries than them was such an issue for me, then I wouldn't move to another country, but stay in the one that they have a right to live in already. I wish agents that push the 457 visa would make it really clear to applicants that this does not give them permanent rights to live in the country, and if they choose to bring their children and their children have all their friends in Australia, then at some point they are going to have to leave those friends and make new ones in the country they DO have permanent residency in, because they don't have rights to stay here forever and that's something they should go into with eyes open. Gosh. You really have no idea. Oh and so rude. Happy New Year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 Regarding TAFE, I think I read somewhere that you can only study for a maximum of 17 weeks and may be limited e.g. to just language courses and not vocational courses but i'm not 100% on that one. Doesn't the applicant need to ensure sufficient funds for a WHV - I know many people borrow the money e.g. from parents, but they have to have proof if asked that it's in their account - I wonder if this would hinder the application for her dependency on you as she has entered the country with funds of her own technically. Good points Ali I am not sure that they have to have in their account, only access to it/support as they never asked for it but it may be the case. Re TAFE, 457 courses can be full time as she did year 12 before, aged 19 and on a 457 but it may be different rules if over 21 years. Thanks for your advice and Input. It's most welcome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siblin! Posted January 2, 2017 Author Share Posted January 2, 2017 BTW, just in case anyone else wants to have a dig at me or my family. I am not being nasty or judgemental to you or your life. You don't know me. I didn't ask for your opinions, only if you had any experience or have been in a similar situation. Please do not troll. It makes people feel bad, and hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Good points Ali I am not sure that they have to have in their account, only access to it/support as they never asked for it but it may be the case. Re TAFE, 457 courses can be full time as she did year 12 before, aged 19 and on a 457 but it may be different rules if over 21 years. Thanks for your advice and Input. It's most welcome I thought you'd advised her to enrol on a WHV (my reply was in regard to there may be restrictions on that) - think you can do any on the 457 (but you don't get domestic fees). Good Luck with the move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Que Sera Sera Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 BTW, just in case anyone else wants to have a dig at me or my family. I am not being nasty or judgemental to you or your life. You don't know me. I didn't ask for your opinions, only if you had any experience or have been in a similar situation. Please do not troll. It makes people feel bad, and hurts. Id post the question in the Ask an agent section if you want factual advice. You're always going to get personal opinions on here. Yours is not an average case, far more complex than you'll normally find on here so I doubt your going to get someone who's been in the exact same situation. Give Go Matilda a call or one of the other agents on here. There might be a way but I doubt anyone on here will know it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booma Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 BTW, just in case anyone else wants to have a dig at me or my family. I am not being nasty or judgemental to you or your life. You don't know me. I didn't ask for your opinions, only if you had any experience or have been in a similar situation. Please do not troll. It makes people feel bad, and hurts. i think its lovely that you want your kids with you & that they want to be with you. having a close family when my kids grow up is something i hope & pray for. congratulations on achieving something so many people want but miss out on. i hope you find answers to your questions but i would probably just talk to a good agent as has been suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 A reminder that this is the migration section and the OP is asking for advice on Visa options for her children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 Excuse me if this is offensive to anyone, but I have a 19 and 22 year old and if I wanted to move to a different country, I would make the decision based on the fact that they are now adults and independent - or should be working towards that aim - and wouldn't expect them to move with me. I know maybe I'm a bit less dependent on them being near me than some parents obviously are, but for goodness sake, they are adults, they make their own choices, if they end up living in a different country to me either through their or my choices, then they can visit for holidays, or I can visit them. If they wanted to move to the same country as me at some point in their future, then it would be up to them to train or apply for a visa in their own right, not constantly hang on my apron strings. If being in different countries than them was such an issue for me, then I wouldn't move to another country, but stay in the one that they have a right to live in already. I wish agents that push the 457 visa would make it really clear to applicants that this does not give them permanent rights to live in the country, and if they choose to bring their children and their children have all their friends in Australia, then at some point they are going to have to leave those friends and make new ones in the country they DO have permanent residency in, because they don't have rights to stay here forever and that's something they should go into with eyes open. Excellent factual post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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